Liverpool FC Forum

by **akumaface** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:42 am

Chelsea forever. wrote:akumaface - GH spent around 130-140M over a period of time and did not win anything. Chelsea spent around 200M in 2 years and won the Carling Cup, English league and semifinalists in the CL last 2 years + a squad which has potential to win the leage again this season and possibly the CL + a squad strong enough to challange for titles for many years to come ---------------- now you tell me whats wise? To spend 150M over a period of time and never win anything and left with a squad not capable .. or to spend 150M in 2 years, actually become champions of England and have a squad capable of challanging for titles for years to come?

This is precisely my point, does anyone has 100million or more to spend on an annual basis in the EPL? The answer is no and on average, GH spent 130 million over 5 years and that's 26million per year. Do you think Chelsea's result will be the same if they can only spent 200million over 10 years (20million per year). The chance is slimmer wouldn't it? The kind of unlimited money Chelski has accelerated the process and thus able to buy anyone in their prime without any constrain. This is why I and many other believed Chelsea's success was bought.

And you never answer my other comments as to why Chelsea is hated by everyone except themselves. Why Moreen and Kenyon had to act this way. And "Class" is the further things from Moreen and Kenyon because they have no ethics. Don't you agree?

by **LFC #1** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:45 am

Chelsea forever. wrote:PS -

However, If Gary Nevil can come out and say "Manu can and will go unbeaten this coming season"

Then surely anyone can say anything .......

Unbelievably delusional if he thinks that.

by **Starbridge42** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:46 am

Ok first of all to those who asked why is there a chelsea fan on these boards let me say that I for one welcome the opinions of other club's fans (although I think as this topic has shown in the interest of good taste it might be better for discussion on that club to be kept to a minimum) and I think of the ones we have had Chelsea Forever is one of the better ones. He has some interesting points and is usually quiet reasoned and knows what he is talking about. My personal opinion on Chelsea is that they will win the league this season, and probably the next as well. The next ten years will be very succesful for them but they will become despised by all clubs and non-Chelsea football fans around the world, and they will not be accepted into G-14. Eventually Roman will get bored of his toy, after all remember that he bought Chelsea and put it where it is right now basicly with the spare change in his pockets. He has spent close to £800million pounds on her if you look at all the reports and add up the various costs (players, salaries, buying the club, wiping the debt, training ground upgrades). Thats £800million pounds in 2 seasons! That is completely unheard of. Even given inflation and so forth that is nothing like what Liverpool or any other club have spent (even in comparison in their era's) in the same period of time. Yes Liverpool spent £130million pounds on players during Houlliers reign but that was over 6 years, not two. Consider this, you could have £10 million pounds a year for the next 5 years and buy a good player or 2 each season. Or you can go out and spend that £50million in one season on one awesome player. Thats how Real operate. Now the £50million club has spent in a much shorter period what the £10million club did in a much longer period. That is why people say that Chelsea bought the league (which in my opinion they did). Had Chelsea spent £200million in 5 or 6 seasons then people would think differently of them.

As for Jose's comments I admit I liked him when he was at Porto, because I could see he was a very good manager but I didnt have to hear the :censored:

he spouts weekly. He's a good manager but I cannot stand the man, I say he can go fist himself. Before the season has started he's had a whine about Arsenal and about Liverpool, how many will he get through in the season proper?

by **Chelsea forever.** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:51 am

This is precisely my point, does anyone has 100million or more to spend on an annual basis in the EPL? The answer is no and on average, GH spent 130 million over 5 years and that's 26million per year. Do you think Chelsea's result will be the same if they can only spent 200million over 10 years (20million per year). The chance is slimmer wouldn't it? The kind of unlimited money Chelski has accelerated the process and thus able to buy anyone in their prime without any constrain. This is why I and many other believed Chelsea's success was bought.

Again, I can only humbly explain to you, that one cannot buy success. You can buy a good player. You cannot pay that player to perfom exceptionally well throught the season. You can pay a club to transfer the player to your club, you cannot pay the player to stay fit, score goals, beat defenders and play as a team throught the season.

And you never answer my other comments as to why Chelsea is hated by everyone except themselves. Why Moreen and Kenyon had to act this way. And "Class" is the further things from Moreen and Kenyon because they have no ethics. Don't you agree?

Why is Chelsea hated .. that you gotta ask the people that hate us. I can tell you one thing though, 'football' fans (not club fans) do not hate us, realists do not hate us and neturals do not hateus.

Why does Jose have no ethics? Is it wrong in todays world to speak your mind?

by **Chelsea forever.** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:01 am

Starbridge42

Ok first of all to those who asked why is there a chelsea fan on these boards let me say that I for one welcome the opinions of other club's fans (although I think as this topic has shown in the interest of good taste it might be better for discussion on that club to be kept to a minimum) and I think of the ones we have had Chelsea Forever is one of the better ones. He has some interesting points and is usually quiet reasoned and knows what he is talking about

Well Thank you.

The next ten years will be very succesful for them but they will become despised by all clubs and non-Chelsea football fans around the world, and they will not be accepted into G-14. Eventually Roman will get bored of his toy, after all remember that he bought Chelsea and put it where it is right now basicly with the spare change in his pockets. He has spent close to £800million pounds on her if you look at all the reports and add up the various costs (players, salaries, buying the club, wiping the debt, training ground upgrades).

This is not a toy to Roman. While he is investing in the infrastructure and current squad, he is also investing in young talent and a new ground. Now if this was a 5 or 10 year toy for him .. he would not invest in young players and new training facilities.

Thats £800million pounds in 2 seasons! That is completely unheard of. Even given inflation and so forth that is nothing like what Liverpool or any other club have spent (even in comparison in their era's) in the same period of time. Yes Liverpool spent £130million pounds on players during Houlliers reign but that was over 6 years, not two. Consider this, you could have £10 million pounds a year for the next 5 years and buy a good player or 2 each season. Or you can go out and spend that £50million in one season on one awesome player.

Can you kindly point out which 'world class' 'top class' player we have bought? Apart form Crespo, none of our purchases have been 'World class' Signings. So please tell me which SUPERSTAR has Chelsea signed?

As for Jose's comments I admit I liked him when he was at Porto, because I could see he was a very good manager but I didnt have to hear the he spouts weekly. He's a good manager but I cannot stand the man, I say he can go fist himself. Before the season has started he's had a whine about Arsenal and about Liverpool, how many will he get through in the season proper?

He is not whining about Arsenal. He is simply pointing out a fact, that the fixture list favours them as they have home games after every European game and we have away games. This was the case last season also, and Fergi has said this has always been the case and he has been trying to point it out for years. Sky also did research on this and said its true. No other manager has said so because frankly no other club is directly affected by ARsenals homegames after European nights as they are not contending for the 1st spot. Now are you going to disagree with the facts and say that Fergie is also whining?

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:05 am

Chelsea forever. wrote:Again, I can only humbly explain to you, that one cannot buy success. You can buy a good player. You cannot pay that player to perfom exceptionally well throught the season. You can pay a club to transfer the player to your club, you cannot pay the player to stay fit, score goals, beat defenders and play as a team throught the season.

Apart from Drogba the more money you spend on a player, rule of thumb says the better he is suppose to be .

ie he should be able to score more goals take players on and perform at a high standard throughout the season.

If that were true
Why doesnt Maureen buy players that are valued at 1M as opposed to ones that are valued at 24m ??

by **stmichael** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:06 am

Chelsea forever. wrote:He is not whining about Arsenal. He is simply pointing out a fact, that the fixture list favours them as they have home games after every European game and we have away games. This was the case last season also, and Fergi has said this has always been the case and he has been trying to point it out for years. Sky also did research on this and said its true. No other manager has said so because frankly no other club is directly affected by ARsenals homegames after European nights as they are not contending for the 1st spot. Now are you going to disagree with the facts and say that Fergie is also whining?

funny how maureen moans about this despite the fact that last year, chelsea had four home games after their first round champions league games and their two away games were in london anyway at charlton and arsenal.

he should just shut up and get on with it. if his squad are "that good" it shouldn't matter when they play anybody because they'll beat them all anyway.

by **Chelsea forever.** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:14 am

Bamagaman

Drogba is not and probably never will be valued at 24M, his club never valued him at 24M. Its just that he had an amazing season with them, and we ended up paying that much -- a transfer that majority of Chelsea fans think was exceptionally high ($$).

Phillips is English, and as it is with English players - Rio 29M, Rooney 30M - the price is always high.

Cech + Robben + Kezman was 20M -- Not too bad when you get the best keeper, the brightest left winger and Kezman for 5M but sold for 5.3M .. ehh?

Tiago, Carvalho and Ferrera - None of them were even heard of. Carvalho had ONE outstanding season with Porto and after his season with us many experts believe he is one of the top defenders in the world and possibly the best sweeper.

Del horno - 8M .. 8M for Spains lb? Surely thats not a lot!

Why doesnt Maureen buy players that are valued at 1M as opposed to ones that are valued at 24m ??

How does one determine the value of a player? Its the buying and selling club + the players performances the season before.

Let me give you an example

Kezman - Dutch leagues highest scorer ever, had 2 seasons that strikers can only dream of. Comes to Chelsea for 5M, has a very poor season, scores a few goals here and there, scores the winning goal in the Carling Cup - and is soled for 5.3M

Peter Crouch - has HALF a good season is sold for 7M.

Makes you think doesnt it ....

by **The Ace1983** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:26 am

You cannot pay a player to perform? I think you can. Through the use of goal bonuses, assist bonuses, clean sheet bonuses, appearance fees, player of the month awards, raises for meeting tallies and requirements...

With the money, you can lure the best chief exec, a top-rated manger, and now the best sporting director. It is unfair to say that Chel$ki bought the title, but to deny that money played a very large part in the progression of the team and franchise, is an example of arrogant stupidity. Football is run by money these days. You have the most, you will win the most (provided you have at least a mediocre business sense) and therefore, we can expect to see Chel$ki at the top a few more times, but it won't last forever.

Meanwhile, I admire the stance of Lyon over the Essien deal. They are standing firm and using that delightful French arrogence (which I used to hate) to admit that there is one price for Mr. Abramovich, and another for everyone else. It's only fair (in a twisted, unfair sort of way).

As I have said previously, Rafa did the best possible thing when asked about Moron-ho's comments. He took them as a complement. You can't shut Mourinho up, it would be like trying to... er... like trying to shut something that is very hard to shut (why couldn't that annalogy be about opening?), so the best thing to do is to treat him like the moaning little tot that he is and ignore him. Well done Rafa.

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:45 am

Chelsea forever. wrote:Bamagaman

Drogba is not and probably never will be valued at 24M, his club never valued him at 24M. Its just that he had an amazing season with them, and we ended up paying that much -- a transfer that majority of Chelsea fans think was exceptionally high ($$).

Phillips is English, and as it is with English players - Rio 29M, Rooney 30M - the price is always high.

Cech + Robben + Kezman was 20M -- Not too bad when you get the best keeper, the brightest left winger and Kezman for 5M but sold for 5.3M .. ehh?

Tiago, Carvalho and Ferrera - None of them were even heard of. Carvalho had ONE outstanding season with Porto and after his season with us many experts believe he is one of the top defenders in the world and possibly the best sweeper.

Del horno - 8M .. 8M for Spains lb? Surely thats not a lot!

Why doesnt Maureen buy players that are valued at 1M as opposed to ones that are valued at 24m ??

How does one determine the value of a player? Its the buying and selling club + the players performances the season before.

Let me give you an example

Kezman - Dutch leagues highest scorer ever, had 2 seasons that strikers can only dream of. Comes to Chelsea for 5M, has a very poor season, scores a few goals here and there, scores the winning goal in the Carling Cup - and is soled for 5.3M

Peter Crouch - has HALF a good season is sold for 7M.

Makes you think doesnt it ....c

But didnt you pay 13M for Ferrara ? wasnt he supposed to be one of the best RB around.

I think you paid something in the region of 21m for SWP,did you really need him? or did you get in there before Arsenal did.
By rights his preffered club was Arsenal,but even Ian Wright told him to go to Chelski where he would get more money.

Although it was a rumour i wouldnt be suprised to see Chelski shellout 60m on Shevchenko.
You tried to buy a certain Steven Gerrard for 30m plus and now your turning your attention to Essein. again 30mplus.

Maybe Maureen has bought a few bargains but at the end of the day he can still splash the cash if he wants to.

Crouch was bought for 7m thats a bargain compared to what you payed for Drogba.
So yes it does make you think doesnt it.

by **Chelsea forever.** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:48 am

Ace 1983

Yes with money we have been able to bring in a top manager, a good sporting director and many top facilities at the club. But this is the way it is in the modern world. If you want to have a top class stance you need to have the money to afford it. Top players demand top wages, why is A. Cole demanding higher pay? Why is Gerrard demanding higher pay and risked leaving because of money?

However I still stand firm that with our money we might have only 'Overpaid' for certian players but we have not 'Bought any World class talents', all our players have worked extremly hard and have played each game with high levels of concentration and have deservedly won the title.

by **Chelsea forever.** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:59 am

But didnt you pay 13M for Ferrara ? wasnt he supposed to be one of the best RB around.

No, Infact just before we bought him he was dropped from the Portugal Euro04 squad after just one game and people called him a useless player.

I think you paid something in the region of 21m for SWP,did you really need him? or did you get in there before Arsenal did.
By rights his preffered club was Arsenal,but even Ian Wright told him to go to Chelski where he would get more money.

Yes we did need him. We play a 4-3-3. Last season we struggled as Robben was out for most of it and Duff was also injured. Now we have enough cover and a 4 players for 2 positions provides a healthy rotation which keeps players competetive, active, fresh and raring to go. And his father asked him to join Chelsea for the trphies as according to Ian Chelsea will win more than Arsenal in the near future.

Although it was a rumour i wouldnt be suprised to see Chelski shellout 60m on Shevchenko.
You tried to buy a certain Steven Gerrard for 30m plus and now your turning your attention to Essein. again 30mplus

Gerrard at 30M because he is English and as I have already pointed out previously English players from English clubs are always expensive. You might not know much about Essien, I have followed him for 2 years now and he is an Exceptional player. When you see him play, if he comes (i think he will) then you will realize. I agree with you that 30M is over the top, but thats why its not yet done and thats why we are still in talks.

Crouch was bought for 7m thats a bargain compared to what you payed for Drogba.
So yes it does make you think doesnt it.

Firstly 24M for Drogba was totally over the top, and I do not rate him highly (although a lot of people do)

Secondly, Crouch cannot offer half of what Drogba can. Drogba has pace and power, he is an exceptional header and he creates havoc in defences making space for the likes of Lampard, cole etc..

by **stmichael** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:17 pm

Chelsea forever. wrote:Peter Kenyon .. hahahah

You gotta love the fella!

But I agree ... he has no right to say such things ... very unsporting behaviour!

Here are just some of the reasons cited when we asked ourselves just why the Chelsea chief executive seems to have become one of the most hated figures in football...

- When still chief executive of Man United, Kenyon tried to re-negotiate the overseas TV rights deal with a 'weighting system', meaning that those clubs that were most popular (ie. Man United) would get a bigger share of the pie. Funnily enough, the club chairmen voted 19-1 against the proposal.

- He was instrumental in bringing Juan Veron to England. And was, according to Sir Alex Ferguson, completely at fault for not bringing the brilliant Ronaldinho. He "didn't get the job done", apparently.

- His suggestion that around half of England's league clubs should go part-time and accept their status as smaller clubs.

- One of his first acts on becoming Chelsea chief executive was to stop Ken Bates' entertaining programme notes, almost ending Harry Harris' career in the process (Er, wasn't this supposed to be reasons for not liking Kenyon? - Ed)

- In a 'burying the bad news' tactic beloved of politicians, Kenyon chose the evening of Chelsea's European Cup semi-final clash with Monaco to announce in his programme notes that season-ticket costs would rise way out of line with inflation. His justification: 'We have to work on getting tomorrow's supporters.' :censored:

to today's obviously.

- His very public meetings with Sven-Goran Eriksson, Ashley Cole and Rio Ferdinand. All completely accidental of course.

- His courting of Stevie G prior to and during Euro 2004, even recording a television interview about his dream of seeing Gerrard and Frank Lampard playing alongside each other for Chelsea. Gerrard was, funnily enough, a flop in the tournament.

- His supposedly off-the-record briefings with members of the press in which he made it clear Claudio Ranieri was for the chop long before his exit, even providing a list of names of possible successors in order to pave the way for his exit. He also apparently told reporters that Claud Makelele was available for sale. Good judgement, Pete.

Of course, all the politicking backfired, as fans and the media got behind Ranieri, with chants of 'Stand up if you hate Kenyon' reverberating around Stamford Bridge.

- He summoned Ranieri for a meeting in Italy at which he was expecting to be sacked. But with Jose Mourinho not quite on board yet, they instead chatted about transfer targets. The Italian was sacked a few days later.

- My mum could have bought Shaun Wright-Phillips with Roman's money.

- His recent attack on the 'old guard' of Manchester United and Arsenal after they dared to take exception to his meetings with Ferdinand and Cole: "It is born out of hypocrisy and fundamental insecurity. There have been two kids on the block for 12 years. Now there is suddenly a third kid and that one is threatening to be more successful than the other two and they don't like it."

- His insistence that Chelsea asked Tottenham's prior permission to talk to sporting director Frank Arnesen, despite clear evidence that the Dane was actually copied in on the same letter.

- Arjen Robben's father said that his son was bound for Manchester United and would join Chelsea "over his dead body". So it was bad news for the Robben family when Kenyon defected to Chelsea and, a few months later, the winger was heading for west London.

- He plumped the ego of Rio Ferdinand by paying £30m for his services at a time when Leeds were crumbling and had to sell Jonathan Woodgate for two-and-sixpence just a few months later.

- While at United he said of Chelsea: "We are not worried - why should we be? Having money is not necessarily a route to automatic success." A salary in the region of £1.5m a year changed his mind about seven minutes later.

Shall I go on?

:angry:

by **66-1112520797** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:21 pm

You still paid 13 m for Ferrera.

Ian did also tell SWP to join for the money.

Like someone else said why are Lyon making you pay more for there players ,
Answer. because money goes through your hands like water,

As for the Crouch/Drogba thing come back to us on that one and we will compare like you said after every five games.

Drogba is clumsy player, where Crouch for a tall guy has exceptional feet and better close control.He also scored more goals than Drogba and played for a team which got relagated.
Drogba played for the best team in England and still couldnt hit a cows :censored:

with a banjo.

by **akumaface** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:03 pm

Chelsea forever. wrote:
This is precisely my point, does anyone has 100million or more to spend on an annual basis in the EPL? The answer is no and on average, GH spent 130 million over 5 years and that's 26million per year. Do you think Chelsea's result will be the same if they can only spent 200million over 10 years (20million per year). The chance is slimmer wouldn't it? The kind of unlimited money Chelski has accelerated the process and thus able to buy anyone in their prime without any constrain. This is why I and many other believed Chelsea's success was bought.

Again, I can only humbly explain to you, that one cannot buy success. You can buy a good player. You cannot pay that player to perfom exceptionally well throught the season. You can pay a club to transfer the player to your club, you cannot pay the player to stay fit, score goals, beat defenders and play as a team throught the season.

And you never answer my other comments as to why Chelsea is hated by everyone except themselves. Why Moreen and Kenyon had to act this way. And "Class" is the further things from Moreen and Kenyon because they have no ethics. Don't you agree?

Why is Chelsea hated .. that you gotta ask the people that hate us. I can tell you one thing though, 'football' fans (not club fans) do not hate us, realists do not hate us and neturals do not hateus.

Why does Jose have no ethics? Is it wrong in todays world to speak your mind?

Well, you were reasonable until you make this comment as I think you are in the state of denial. "YOu can buy a good player but you can't pay that player to perform exceptionally well through the season". In general, the transfer fees (unless the one Chelski wants as they are inflated cause they don't care paying couple million more just to get their man even they are not really worth the price) reflects on that players quanlity. Therefore, the higher the fees usually mean better than a player that is valued less. Of course no one is certain they will perform but don't you agree the probability of higher fees usually result with better player? Also, what do you mean "performing exceptionally well"? You statement is getting shallower and might need a dictionary to define. YOu do not have any fact to support your claim and there is no point debating as there isn't any logic in your comment anymore. As I said, you are in the state of denial. :glare:

As for your response on my other comments, same reasoning. :rasp

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