Liverpool FC Forum

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:19 pm

Afroman wrote:This is a club that revolves around its fans

thats also a point..

but i think thats not an 'official' theme for the club..maybe they can use force with 'unofficial' ways. without any formality..

by **[Dom2]** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:45 pm

... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

by **maximus** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:48 pm

zarababe wrote:.. read my post.. his plight is awful.. but in the same way.. at least he has a chance to appeal and get out .. and his family and friends and MP are on the case.. etc etc ... at least he weren't shot eight times ay .. all I'm saying is that the club should play football.. and let the wheels of justice turn... Carra's gesture is touching .. the club has millions of supporters.. what is it gonna do speak out against every injustice.. if that Brazilian guy shot in London was a LFC supporter.. should the club have made a geture there too

.. lets have perspective ay..

Good point Zara................in theory. However the reality is this young supporter was only in Bulgaria for the sole purpose of supporting his favourite team.............Liverpool, in the Champions League Final FFS!! He has now been put in jail as a direct result of that very trip. This poor kid needs as much publicity/money as he can get to get out of this terrible situation. Apparently listening to one of his uncles this morning, Jack Straw is washing his hands of the case and not gettinvolved.............. :censored:

As a consequence I do think our club SHOULD make an official gesture of some sorts.

by **zarababe** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:50 pm

.. I understand that argument too.. lets see what happens.. i'm sure the club have sent there support to the family behinf the scenes.. and the official website has been posting stuff on the case too .. hopefully justice will prevail.. but the club can not get involved in such issues..

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:04 am

zarababe wrote:at least he weren't shot eight times ay

can someone explain to me what this has to do with Michael Shields?

lets all join in with pointless comments and see if that helps.

'at least he wasnt hit by a bus'

no that didnt help either.

now to be honest there is no point in the actual club getting too involved, they have no powers over the bulgarian legal system, neither do the british government.

however the british government can exert pressure on bulgaria but is unlikely that they will exert too much pressure, the best they can do is highlight the shortcomings in the bulgarian legal system and hope that they will see some sense.

different countries have different standards and sometimes we need to understand that. letting off balloons will not change anything. i think its already clear that people are behind him. his family and friends are trying hard and jack straw has agreed to meet the family, however i am sure this will be to just tell them that the government are trying different things. im sure we wont place a trade embargo on them or threaten to not let them into Europe as there is a much bigger picture than michael shields plight.

in fact if bulgaria where in europe then it could be taken to the european court of human rights to act as a higher authority but there really is no redress to take it to a higher court outside bulgaria.

i think patience is required in this situation and lets just hope justice prevails soon and he is home with his family from this obvious stitch up.

also lets not forget there is a guy walking round with part of his skull missing and brain damage because of this attack, unfortunatley shields is the scapegoat. i wonder what the response would be if they got the right guy, would some people still be complaining. im sure they would

by **LFC #1** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:09 am

[Dom2] wrote:... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

So you disagree with our boycott of the S*n and various campaigns for Hillsborough? Get a grip ffs!

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:15 am

LFC #1 wrote:
[Dom2] wrote:... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

So you disagree with our boycott of the S*n and various campaigns for Hillsborough? Get a grip ffs!

i think he was attempting humour, this can be seen by the laughing smiley. dont read too much into it, dom knows better than that, possibly a sarcastic reference to boris johnson

by **LFC #1** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:28 am

fair enough, still it's nothing to joke baout IMO.

by **84-1106852058** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:16 am

zarababe wrote:.. read my post.. his plight is awful.. but in the same way.. at least he has a chance to appeal and get out .. and his family and friends and MP are on the case.. etc etc ... at least he weren't shot eight times ay .. all I'm saying is that the club should play football.. and let the wheels of justice turn... Carra's gesture is touching .. the club has millions of supporters.. what is it gonna do speak out against every injustice.. if that Brazilian guy shot in London was a LFC supporter.. should the club have made a geture there too

.. lets have perspective ay..

How long do you think an appeal will take Zara ? His MP is on the case,Parliament is about to go into recess.Iam sure his MP

will be thinking about Michael,between slurps of Pina colada on some Caribean beach.This lad is inoccent he has been in jail since 30th of May the sooner he is home the better.How would you feel if itwas your son.

Liverpool Football Club has never got involved in anything like this in my opinion its about time they did.Isnt Brian Hall some kind of community liason officer,isnt Michael Sheilds part of that community?

Idont expect LFC to pay his legal fees,but surely a message of support wouldnt go a miss.

I think it is unfair of you to bring the Brazilian guy into this,wether you like it or not he was shot due to his own actions,if he had stopped when told to,or even gone home when his visa expired 2 years ago he would be alive today.It was his choice to run.Idont mean to belittle his death but it was brought on by his actions.

Michael Sheilds had no control over what happend to him.Not being from liverpool [not having a pop at ooters etc.] Iwonder if you are aware of the strngth of feeling in this case,the whole City is talking about nothing else with a collective feeling of disgust.

Qoute Dom 2
... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

DOM 2;

I know you put a smiley on your post but I ,do think its in bad taste.Do you know that Graham Sankey is an Evertonian,if you had a football team that was capable of winning anything,maybe thugs like Sankey wouldnt feel the need to travel abroad with
Liverpool.

by **zarababe** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:30 pm

The Red Baron wrote:
zarababe wrote:.. read my post.. his plight is awful.. but in the same way.. at least he has a chance to appeal and get out .. and his family and friends and MP are on the case.. etc etc ... at least he weren't shot eight times ay .. all I'm saying is that the club should play football.. and let the wheels of justice turn... Carra's gesture is touching .. the club has millions of supporters.. what is it gonna do speak out against every injustice.. if that Brazilian guy shot in London was a LFC supporter.. should the club have made a geture there too

.. lets have perspective ay..

How long do you think an appeal will take Zara ? His MP is on the case,Parliament is about to go into recess.Iam sure his MP

will be thinking about Michael,between slurps of Pina colada on some Caribean beach.This lad is inoccent he has been in jail since 30th of May the sooner he is home the better.How would you feel if itwas your son.

Liverpool Football Club has never got involved in anything like this in my opinion its about time they did.Isnt Brian Hall some kind of community liason officer,isnt Michael Sheilds part of that community?

Idont expect LFC to pay his legal fees,but surely a message of support wouldnt go a miss.

I think it is unfair of you to bring the Brazilian guy into this,wether you like it or not he was shot due to his own actions,if he had stopped when told to,or even gone home when his visa expired 2 years ago he would be alive today.It was his choice to run.Idont mean to belittle his death but it was brought on by his actions.

Michael Sheilds had no control over what happend to him.Not being from liverpool [not having a pop at ooters etc.] Iwonder if you are aware of the strngth of feeling in this case,the whole City is talking about nothing else with a collective feeling of disgust.

Qoute Dom 2
... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

DOM 2;

I know you put a smiley on your post but I ,do think its in bad taste.Do you know that Graham Sankey is an Evertonian,if you had a football team that was capable of winning anything,maybe thugs like Sankey wouldnt feel the need to travel abroad with
Liverpool.

.. of course the strenght of feeling is grt.. it's not about coming from a city or not.. an injustice is the same everywhere.. my reference to the Brazilian guy was to say .. that at least Mr Shields gets to fight another day ..ay....

... I stand by what I said before.. the Club may have made getsures of support already.. but it's not for them to get involved

by **[Dom2]** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:54 am

LFC #1 wrote:
[Dom2] wrote:... or how about you rednecks leavin this poor soul to sort out his own problems... u always seem to have something to moan/petition or protest about, it gets on my t!ts.
He is no doubt a thug anyway !! a few years away will do him good !!

So you disagree with our boycott of the S*n and various campaigns for Hillsborough? Get a grip ffs!

oh dont be f*cking stupid lol... I didnt mean anything along the lines of that!

sorry if u thought otherwise!

... and yeah peewee, it was about that blond haired ponce

by **JBG** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:29 pm

peewee wrote:in fact if bulgaria where in europe then it could be taken to the european court of human rights to act as a higher authority but there really is no redress to take it to a higher court outside bulgaria.

Bulgaria is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights and also to the UN Charter, so it can be taken to a higher court in Europe if Michael Shields believes that his human rights have been breached.

Britain can theoretically bring a case on his behalf but to the best of my knowledge, member countries hardly ever bring a case against each other, and the only one I know of is "Ireland v. United Kingdom" (1980) which was a case brought by the Irish governement for alleged "inhuman and degrading treatment" of Irish political prisoners in British jails.

Britain will not bring a case on Michael Shields' behalf so he'll have to bring one himself. However, he must first exhaust all domestic remedies in Bulgaria before he can bring a case to Europe. This means he must appeal his case within the Bulgarian justice system first, and if necessary, appeal his case to the highest court in Bulgaria. I hear he has appealed his case and the appeal will be heard the week after next. He may be released then, or he may not. If he has not been released, he will have to bring his case to a higher court of appeal in Bulgaria: whether he can do or not I don't know as I don't know the Bulgarian legal system.

Potentially, even if he has a case under the European Convention on Human Rights he will first have to show that the Bulgarian justice system has completely failed him, something he alas cannot technically show at present as there still is an avenue of appeal for him within the Bulgarian legal system.

This will take time and money and if the Bulgarians refuse to release him then he could be in prison for a long while.

After he has exhausted all his options in Bulgaria, he might be able to bring a case to Europe through something like Article 5 (right to liberty) or Article 6 (right to a fair trial) of the European convention. This will take time so he could potentially be in jail for 3 or 4 years before any chance of release.

For a short term answer his main hope is the appeal to the Bulgarian Court of Appeal in a fortnight.

Its great that people are showing support but what Michael Shields really needs is a large kitty to get good lawyers to fight his case. The release of ballons and the showing of placards are all well intentioned but they won't get him out of jail. He needs hard cash to get the right people to fight his fight.

by **adamnbarrett** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:50 pm

zarababe wrote:
ynwa wrote:i just think liverpool should do a protest for that lad who was jailed be the game on tuesday

let the law courts sort it out.. Football can not solve every friggin problem... there's enuff pressure from this lad's supporters and family for his plight to be dealt with.. outside the football arena...

... someone is sheltering a criminal.. he can't hide for long...

Zara has a good point

e.g. (i know this is a totally different situation but) manure fans protested against glazer at one of their matches and that didn't do anything.

by **66-1120597113** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:05 pm

I dont think the club and players should get 2 involved!after all theyre about football not the justice system!
But Michael Sheilds is blatently innocent,hes also a Liverpool fan who payed hard earned cash to go to Istanbul!
And without the hard earned cash of fans our club would be nothing!So i figure it is a chance 4 the club to show the fans they care 4 u as we do 4 them!!
Something simple like if the player ore an armband for him it would speak a million words! Just my opinion but the yellow ballooon thing sounde a bit cheesy!!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:25 am

It's been touched on here, but I'm saying that LFC SHOULD show support. I never said the club should pay this or that, or that we'd have any weight in the legal process, but I think a lot of the posts here miss the most important thing; Michael Sheilds. He's 18 ffs, in a disgusting cell in a prison with no English people. I strongly feel that even a facking card from the squad would do wonders for him mentally. And I don't think a show of respect at the 2nd leg would hurt either. As has been said - LFC is all about it's FANS. Are we a close-knit caring club, or a faceless mass that couldn't give a shat about our fellow supporters? Come on people - I'm getting p*ssed off now.

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