Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:26 pm

Out of the ones you mentioned they are probably the ones that aren't debatable.

The only one who didn't score more than Baros was Smith and that was because he didn't play as many games.

I find it quite laughable the fact you sit there and say Baros is even nearly in the same class as Defoe. Defoe's on a different level altogether.

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:28 pm

Alfonso Alonso 1 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:van Persie
Smith
Defoe
Keane
Angel
Gudjonsson
Crouch
Morientes
Cisse
Ashton
Johnson
Fowler
Shearer
Kluivert

Don't question my knowledge on the sport little boy. You'll get made to look like an idiot. Run along.

I've counted 14 on your list who are not better than Baros by a long shot.

Dean Ashton? Defoe? Keane? Crouch? ALAN SMITH!

Is this the Comedy Hour?

Hands up all those who think that most of the above are better than Baros?

This is poetic! Stu sit down, you look silly

Sorry i misread your post...

You think all of those 14 aren't better than Baros?

Even better :laugh:

If you'd said one or two, there might have been a debate there, but to say all of those aren't better than Baros shows your knowledge on the subject.

by **LFC #1** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:28 pm

I think the lad needs to take his red tinted glasses off and relaise their are many better players out their in some positions than what we have got.

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:30 pm

you think baros is better than shearer

i think this one could be roberts in disguise trying to stir us up

by **Starbridge42** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:37 pm

Alfonso Alonso 1 wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:van Persie
Smith
Defoe
Keane
Angel
Gudjonsson
Crouch
Morientes
Cisse
Ashton
Johnson
Fowler
Shearer
Kluivert

Don't question my knowledge on the sport little boy. You'll get made to look like an idiot. Run along.

I've counted 14 on your list who are not better than Baros by a long shot.

Dean Ashton? Defoe? Keane? Crouch? ALAN SMITH!

Is this the Comedy Hour?

Hands up all those who think that most of the above are better than Baros?

This is poetic! Stu sit down, you look silly

*Puts hand up* :buttrock

your the one looking silly alfonso

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:51 pm

It could be Roberts actually, not seen him around for a while.

He always appears on my msn at the same time stupid posts are made aswell.

by **dawson99** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:53 pm

i didnt think wed sold baros yet

by **banana** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:38 pm

I must say I'm really surprised after reading through this thread. It seems more than 90% of the people participating in the discussion are against Baros. Then he must be a bad player, right? Or is the majority wrong?

Based on goal statistics Baros has not impressed. He has 9 league goals in 22 starts. Not super, but decent enough I guess.

What more can statistics say? He has won us 65 free kicks, not bad I must say, a lot of them in dangerous positions. His good control and work rate make him a hard player to handle for defenders. They often pull him to the ground instead of letting Baros go past them and have a go at goal. Some of these free kicks has produced real goal scoring opportunities and goals.

What can't statistics say? Statistics can't show how much effort a player put into the game. Here Baros ranks among the very best. He is always 100%. And this is something I personally appreciate a lot. I can't stand to see players not putting in work, or players not being able to do so because of their poor level of fitness.

Runs. Baros makes more runs than any other player (except Riise maybe). This is important. The defenders do not like a striker like that. They must run more too, and their legs will tire. This also makes more space for other players and open up the defence. If the striker moves around a lot, we would definately see more goals from midfield.

Teamwork. I don't think Baros is as selfish as some people claim. If he was selfish, he would most definately not make all those runs. He would try to stay as close as possible to the box, and let the other players do the hard work. This would probably guarantee him more goals, as his legs would be more fresh, and he would be in more dangerous positions in front of the goal in larger parts of the game.

Contribution. Baros was one of the best players in our european campaign. When we played top teams like Juventus and Chelsea Baros's wild dog attitude chasing the ball like he was insane made it difficult for the opposition to involve their defenders in the attack and build up. Baros just did not allow that to happen. And he had come really valuable assist didn't he? Setting up Garcia's goal against Chelsea, and slotting the ball to Gerrard earning us a penalty? You can't take that away from him.

To sum up. I am surprised by the one-sidedness of the debate. Baros has a lot to offer, he is not all bad as some claim. He is a top striker.

For me, I am not so sure if it is a good or a bad thing if he leaves. I am not saying he is irreplacable, few are. It is all a matter of how much money a sale will bring in and who Baros is replaced with. If Baros leaves then Liverpool must replace him with a PROVEN goalscorer with EXPERIENCE. Cisse is still much of a question mark, and Morientes did not set the world alight last year did he?

by **A.B.** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:58 pm

What can't statistics say? Statistics can't show how much effort a player put into the game. Here Baros ranks among the very best. He is always 100%. And this is something I personally appreciate a lot. I can't stand to see players not putting in work, or players not being able to do so because of their poor level of fitness

Does he work for himself in order to get the attention of other clubs and use us as a stepping stone or does he work for this club?

by **JBG** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:00 pm

Baros is the kid in school who knows he's gut lungs like a horse and can run all day with the ball. The thing is, most professional footballers get over that when they are 15.

by **taff** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:02 pm

Bit of both Id imagine. Baros does work hard for the team, ok fair enough to criticise him for a number of attributes to his game but he does work hard for the team. IMO players in the shop window dont always do that so the guy gets my respect.

Whether he will be here in a couple of months or not is another thing. Personally I just dont think its working out for him and dont think itys the right player at the right time for us as things are developing but I will always think of him as someone who gave his all

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:26 pm

I must say I'm really surprised after reading through this thread. It seems more than 90% of the people participating in the discussion are against Baros. Then he must be a bad player, right? Or is the majority wrong?

Based on goal statistics Baros has not impressed. He has 9 league goals in 22 starts. Not super, but decent enough I guess.

What more can statistics say? He has won us 65 free kicks, not bad I must say, a lot of them in dangerous positions. His good control and work rate make him a hard player to handle for defenders. They often pull him to the ground instead of letting Baros go past them and have a go at goal. Some of these free kicks has produced real goal scoring opportunities and goals.

What can't statistics say? Statistics can't show how much effort a player put into the game. Here Baros ranks among the very best. He is always 100%. And this is something I personally appreciate a lot. I can't stand to see players not putting in work, or players not being able to do so because of their poor level of fitness.

Runs. Baros makes more runs than any other player (except Riise maybe). This is important. The defenders do not like a striker like that. They must run more too, and their legs will tire. This also makes more space for other players and open up the defence. If the striker moves around a lot, we would definately see more goals from midfield.

Teamwork. I don't think Baros is as selfish as some people claim. If he was selfish, he would most definately not make all those runs. He would try to stay as close as possible to the box, and let the other players do the hard work. This would probably guarantee him more goals, as his legs would be more fresh, and he would be in more dangerous positions in front of the goal in larger parts of the game.

Contribution. Baros was one of the best players in our european campaign. When we played top teams like Juventus and Chelsea Baros's wild dog attitude chasing the ball like he was insane made it difficult for the opposition to involve their defenders in the attack and build up. Baros just did not allow that to happen. And he had come really valuable assist didn't he? Setting up Garcia's goal against Chelsea, and slotting the ball to Gerrard earning us a penalty? You can't take that away from him.

To sum up. I am surprised by the one-sidedness of the debate. Baros has a lot to offer, he is not all bad as some claim. He is a top striker.

For me, I am not so sure if it is a good or a bad thing if he leaves. I am not saying he is irreplacable, few are. It is all a matter of how much money a sale will bring in and who Baros is replaced with. If Baros leaves then Liverpool must replace him with a PROVEN goalscorer with EXPERIENCE. Cisse is still much of a question mark, and Morientes did not set the world alight last year did he?

The reason 90% of the people are against Baros is alot of people go to matches here and even the ones that don't can spot his quite embaressing faults at times. The amount of times he simply fails to do the simple thing or to pass the ball to player who is in a better position isn't average, its poor. He doesn't understand the concept of the one-two and doesn't see anything outside five yards of where he is and when you're at a game and you are used to watching the likes of Fowler and Owen recieve the ball then switch the play to someone in a better position or simply pick out a good pass eight times out of ten then it starts to get very tedious and repetative.

I notice you only refere to league goals and STARTS. Well, Baros played ALOT more than 22 games this season and managed a pathetic 13 goals. Last season i was annoyed when Heskey was starting games ahead of Milan, this season i can see this was fully justified at times. The fact is of the 13 goals, he scored 2 against Millwall and a hatrick against Palace. Thats another 8 goals. Two poor teams. Infact i can't think of a good side he scored against this season with the exception of Monaco.

You say his control and work rate make him hard to handle? I'm sorry, but his control is one of his biggest let downs. The amount of times he has a heavy first touch or fails to control a simple ball isn't good enough. I remember last season a pass that Owen recieved from Gerrard that was seventy yards, Owen had a defender on his back and was out wide, the pass was superb but Owen killed it instantly and then rolled the ball infield to Hamann who ended up just firing Over. Baros wouldn't do that sort of thing. I remember also one of Fowlers goals against Villa where he backheeled the ball past Staunton, skinned him then burried it from 20 yards, again something Baros wouldn't have the awareness to do.

You say he wins free kicks? What good is that? How many goals do we score from set pieces? Answer... NOT ENOUGH. Owen won 61 free kicks for us last season. I don't here you using this as part of you're arguement... I don't want strikers to win free kicks, i want goals to happen because of strikers. Baros doesn't offer this.

Runs? He runs lots? So what? Baros has great stamina and good fitness, don't question that. Superb yeah, whats the point in making a run that doesn't get you anywhere. Teams don't mark man for man in open play and you'll find he often runs wide (where hes no threat at all) and ends up simply getting passed on to one of the full backs. I've told you before about his closing down, i'd much rather he used his brain like all the great strikers do and mark defenders out of the game as apose to mindlessly chasing after the ball and getting picked off after 3 or 4 passes which in Baros' case happens far to often leaving the defenders with more time to pick a pass into midfield. Defending isn't always about closing down, its about marking the right men, staying in your zone and cutting a defenders options down for passes into the midfield. The idea being you make them play the ball into an area where you are more likely to win the ball, Due to Baros' faults this was one reason we HAD to play a 4-5-1 in europe this season as teams were simply picking off and by passing our midfield into there attackers who were holding the ball up for midfielders to run onto.

You state about his teamwork, yes to an extent what you are saying is right, but the fact is he doesn't have the intelligence to play any other way and to be a goalthreat. He's also extremely selfish, possibly just through a lack of vision and awareness, but its not an excuse.

Baros did make a solid contribution to the european campaigne and did set up the goals you mentioned aswell as scoring a meaningless one and one against Monaco. But the fact you state that he runs round like someone who's "insane" says it all. He's a headless chicken. In that first half against Milan the reason they hammered us was because there defence picked easy passes due to bad marking by both Kewell and Baros. In the second half when Riise, Smicer and Luis Garcia pushed forward and had Baros to help them it made things MUCH more difficult for the Milan defence and there midfield kept getting caught by Hamann, Alonso and Steven Gerrard. It helped to change the game.

In summary, Baros is a good player. With good pace and good dribbling skills, he's fairly strong and would be a good player to bring off the bench. He's a half decent finisher and works his balls off with superb stamina. Thats about it, I could write you loads of reasons on the likes or Owen, Fowler, Rush and even Collymore and Heskey at there best, I could write more on why i think Morientes, Sinama-Pongolle and Cisse deserve more of a chance than they've had already, you think that Baros' is good enough for this club as a first choice striker and brings more to the team than the likes of Owen, Fowler etc etc...

I'm sorry lad, but you're on your own.

Maybe you just need to come to a match with me and i'll talk you through everything.

by **A.B.** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:38 pm

Well, Baros played ALOT more than 22 games this season and managed a pathetic 13 goals

cough, he's played 22 Premiership games, which is what Banana was refering to, 9 goals in 22 Premiership starts. Overall he hasn't scored enough goals, and that's that. He's had 43 games to prove himself and he hasn't done that, as you so pointed out in the ''essay'' you just posted.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:30 pm

Angel that 10 million flop at Villa

Not being funny but hes f@ckin sh.ite :wwww

, Noway is he better than Baros, jesus christ :down:

by **Kid a** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:23 am

Angel is in no way a :censored:

player. You must be joking. I'm not saying he's a better player, but he ten times as intelligent as Baros is on the ball. He can create goals, and regularly brings other players into play. Great in the air also. Although, also...not the best finisher. I'd take him in front of Morientes, not Baros. Since they are similar in ways. In all honesty, we should be unloading Morientes instead of Baros. I believe he was a mistake. And I see no sense in selling Baros (who is still pretty young, and has loads of potential) for the 7-8 million that we could get for him and justifying the Morientes purchase for just under that. I'd bite Lyon's (or whatever French club it was that had bid for him) hand off if they were still interested in Morientes, and we could recoup what we paid for him and put that towards a class striker who would effectively work as a target man (if that's what Rafa wants) or just flatout goalscorer.

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Big mistake selling baros ! - If you ask me...rafa shame on you!

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