Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:02 pm

so you are basing your whole appraisal of Stevie G and his future on one half of a game of football?

PRICELESS Stu lad.

Leon don't be tool lad, you know me better than that.

He's done it far to much this season.

Not one game.

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:04 pm

Against Arsenal, we saw Alonso's shortcoming in a formation where he plays next to players without great passing or dribbling assets. In the first half yesterday, with Gerrard waiting upfield, there was no one to help him and so the opposition were more than happy to close him down.

With Gerrard next to him however, if they put two on Alonso, that's one less marker on Gerrard and so he'd be spreading the ball around instead.

Don't worry, Alonso will continue to improve his game, but the last thing we need is for him to start messing around with his game. It's about the team, not about relying on one individual. Let his shortcomings be covered by other great players, and let theirs be covered by others.

We'll be great next season provided Benitez brings in the right players. Gerrard and Alonso really can become an incredible pairing given a bit of time. To say one is better than the other is ridiculous because they are completely different types of players.

by **banana** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:23 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
better at what exactly?

While many were quick to proclaim Xabi better than Gerrard I have to say that while his passing ability and football intelligence is second to none, if he cannot get into space to recieve the ball, or go past a man to create space for himself then he is easily nullified. The bigger problem in my opinion is that if his passing isn't up to scratch then he becomes a passenger in games.

He lacks Gerrards pace, drive, tackling and most of all goal threat. If he is to become a more orthodox holding midfielder then that is fine but the defensive side of his game needs to be worked on. In europe the opposition will allow him more time and space to pick a pass but in the premiership he will have to work harder and find an alternative to the hollywood passes, especially against the top 3.

Mick? You're normally one off the more sensible posters on here but i can't quite believe what i'm reading here.

The lads touch ALWAYS creates space for himself, when does he ever turn into trouble like Traore, or have a dodgey touch? He knows when to take it, where to take and how to take it which always creates the space for him. He positions his body and takes the touch at the right time to create space, if the space isn't there he's positioned correctly to release the ball to a team mate. Which 9 out 10 times is what happens.

He is more than up for the physical side of the game aswell.

We all know about his passing, but for you sit there and critisise his defensive ability shocks me. His reading of the game and positional play are simply top class. He's easily as good as Hamann in this department, the way he played against Juventus where he marked PAVEL NEDVED out of the game highlights this. He intercepts ALOT and makes ALOT of tackles.

He is also better for team spirit than Gerrard. Gerrard sulks to much and walks around the pitch alot. He's got a serious chip on his shoulder, he tried to have a go at Xabi yesterday in the first half when Gerrard was the one who made the initial mistake. He also moans at Garcia to much and trys to do to much himself because he's "the man".

I'm with Stu on this one.

The main reason. BRAINS.

And I have to say I am really impressed with how Alonso moves around and position himself. He always seems to be making the right choices of where to run, where to pass. And he has this incredible ability to create space for himself.

Let's face it. Gerrard relies more on his strenght than his smartness. He often makes errors of judgement. And his positoning and reading of the game is not half as good as alonso's.

Also I think Alonso has a better influence on his team mates. He never complains and after loosing the ball, he always run back whereas Gerrard often stops running.

I do rate Gerrard as a good player and an important part of the team. But he should not get 2-3 times more money than the others. That will be bad for morale, and it will probably not make us better as a team or make him a better player. We will only get more spice boy attitude from him and less team spirit.

by **el_stinger** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:26 pm

Those that are Premium Members may want to have a look at the advanced debate, I've left some comments there before the Chelsea match in regards to this issue. Have a look, make a post, tell us what you think.

http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10516

by **siti_zaiton1982** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:58 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Walked around again yesterday with a chip on his shoulder.

He can't handle the fact Alonso is a better player.

Gerrard is clearly becoming bad for team morale.

He doesn't want to play for the club no more.

that is totally ridiculous.

by **Ciggy** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:02 pm

Even before xabi came to us, he had a reputation of blowing hot and cold in games, i think yesterday was one of his cold days, this is what put real off him. Hes still a fantastic player and passer and i am glad he plays for our club, but then again our whole team blows hot and cold

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:21 pm

Lee J wrote:Judging by some of his more recent performances I wouldn't pay him £100 a week. He's gonna have to book his ideas up to justify the huge salary.

Absolutely SPOT ON!

I think the amount he's being offered is SHOCKING - Anyone would have thought that Gerrard was Ronaldinho.

Sorry but Gerrard has had a negative effect on the team this season in many games.

I think many members of the team are scared of him and it's shown more this season than any other.

Fair enough he's scored some EXTREMELY important goals for us this season, but in general he has been stroppy, moody cost us in some games....he's been everything but a good captain.

Gerrard has fallen out of favour with many of us this season and for good reason.

by **xd3vilx** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:22 pm

Just To Let U Guy Recap...Without Gerrard Late Goal In CL...We Would Not Be In The CL...So Stop Being So Ridiculous..

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:23 pm

stmichael wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:He can't handle the fact Alonso is a better player.

better at what exactly?

While many were quick to proclaim Xabi better than Gerrard I have to say that while his passing ability and football intelligence is second to none, if he cannot get into space to recieve the ball, or go past a man to create space for himself then he is easily nullified. The bigger problem in my opinion is that if his passing isn't up to scratch then he becomes a passenger in games.

He lacks Gerrards pace, drive, tackling and most of all goal threat. If he is to become a more orthodox holding midfielder then that is fine but the defensive side of his game needs to be worked on. In europe the opposition will allow him more time and space to pick a pass but in the premiership he will have to work harder and find an alternative to the hollywood passes, especially against the top 3.

Alonso IS BETTER than Gerrard.

And he's more of a professional in attitude too.

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:27 pm

no footballer is worth £100k a week. football has gone completely mad. however, the reality is, this might be what we have to pay him to keep him at the football club. at the end of the day, however much player's claim to love the fans, they only want what's best for themselves.

why do you think ashley cole apparently met with chelsea. i'll tell you why. because he's on £28,000 a week at arsenal and chelsea offered him £80,000. also, rio ferdinand actually believes in that thick head of his that he's worth £120,000 a week.

that's why chelsea are a cancer in our game. as soon as they offer the cash, everyone comes running. :angry:

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:27 pm

xd3vilx wrote:Just To Let U Guy Recap...Without Gerrard Late Goal In CL...We Would Not Be In The CL...So Stop Being So Ridiculous..

Yes but what you said is ridiculous because we can say that about any player....

If García didn't score his 5 goals.....

If Carragher didn't make 100 brilliant tackles on the way to the final....

etc, etc

Gerrard has generally had a VERY NEGATIVE effect on us this season....

by **andy_g** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:32 pm

if we're talking about beginning at 80k a week its ok - its only what i earn in about 4 years. but lets put it in context with people like rio ferdinand who is on 100k and angling for 120k a week. there's a thread about what we do with all the CL money we make - well i think spending a chunk of it on keeping the most influencial player we have at the club is a much better idea than spending 20 odd million trying to get a replacement. in the rarified air of footballers wages for the level he's at and the things he's given the club he's been on peanuts up to now.

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:33 pm

The original post wasn't being derogatory. It was merely an observation of how Xabi can improve.

It's already been mentioned that Xabi is a very intelligent footballer. He reads the game better than Gerrard and whilst their passing execution is very similar, I think that in general, Xabi spots the passes quicker, thereby reducing the need to beat a man and encouraging quick passing exchanges and more movement. Another notable asset is that, in contrast to Hamann these days, he is always looking to move the ball FORWARD. Too many times without him, the attack breaks down and the ball ends up at the feet of our defenders with no option but to boot it haplessly forward.

Xabi does need to develop his aggression but I think that'll come. He's shown us glimpses of it in the games against Juventus where I thought he got stuck in nicely. His pace is not great but there's little we can do about that and Hamann has hardly been a midfield wippet.

I mentioned before the Arsenal game that I don't like Gerrard in the link role. I still don't. I think he's wasted there. As long as Alonso is played with Hamann in a 4-5-1, the onus on Xabi to tackle is reduced. To develop his tackling, he needs to be forced to do it. In the pre-season I'd like to see Hamann left out. Play Xabi deep and tell him to do what Hamann does. If he can't then we'll take it from there. Unless we try it, we'll be doomed to a 4-5-1 formation (with Gerrard in the link role) for the foreseeable future.

by **Sean** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:34 pm

I heard his bird is a shopaholic so you can understand the lad trying to earn a few extra quid.

by **infiltraitor** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:53 pm

Stevie g has carried liverpool for the most part of the season, when xabi and the others were out ,it was gerrard who grabbed liverpool by the scruff of the neck and kept them in games or winning them.I agree that he does seem to be sulking a bit,but maybe that's because he is under scrutiny every game and with all the doubters out there i'd surely feel the same way.If he leaves so be it,at least will get a huge chunk of change.

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