Liverpool FC Forum

by **Big Niall** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:27 am

I usually get shouted down here for being a realist but as Jamie Carragher agrees with me, I can't be accused of not supporting the team.

We are not a very good team. We will come 5th or 6th in a league which only has three decent teams. We are miles behind the leaders and not qualifying for the CL will be a huge blow to our finance/pulling power.

I (JC didn't say this) think Rafa might turn out to be a good manager but I had expected his team (even with injuries) to do better than Everton over 38 games. The team has been terrible at times and lost as much as they won - we're on the same points as Bolton for fukk sake.

If we are not in CL next year, I think the goal next season will be 4th (We are likely to me miles behind winners, Carling & FA & Uefa cup are second rate tournaments).

I know it is a harsh post but I just think that not being in CL has been a huge blow and it has put us back another step in quest to be league champs. It is still a long way off.

Congrats to David Moyes - he MUST now be manager of the year.

by **Erica** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:46 am

I understand your post, because i am also frustrated with our Premiership. But I would just add one more consideration. We have had a lot of injuries, and we have reached the CL final, which is only for the greatest teams in Europe. It is difficult to do well in two competitions with the situation we have had. New manager, new players, many injuries...
You talk about Everton and Bolton... But , why don't you talk about Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern... They would love to be in our place... Greetings

by **Dalglish** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:47 am

I'm not going to shout you down Niall but I am going to disagree with you but thats what debate and forums are all about.

Whilst I agree it may not be the League position most of us hoped for I do disagree with your reasons for why we are there. I suppose in this instant fix Premiership we should be used to expecting great things in a managers first year , after all Mourinho has captured the championship in his first season........However that only tells half the story as Chelsea were second last season to an historic and very very good Arsenal side and have made the improvements this year to take the title. They have not progressed in terms of the CL and were fortunate to win the Carling Cup ( Second rate trophy anyway according to yourself). Benitez has had to take a team much fururther away from title credentials as Chelsea were when Maureen arrived.

Liverpool under Benitez in their first season have done excellently well and anyone who expected the big push towards the Prem title were deluding themselves. However you try to dismiss the injuries situation it HAS had a major impact on the perfromances and also with new players settling in and the constant will he /won't he saga over Stevie Gerard and a fair chunk of bad l;uck have all conspired to leave us where we are today.

I find it difficult to understand your menatality and can only assume you have been brought up watching too much SKY with it's over hyped and instant succes formula

by **andy_g** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:50 am

for sure this season we have not been a very good team - or maybe its more accurate to say we have been an unbelievably inconsistent team. we have, mostly in europe but sometimes in the league, played some spellbinding football but these times have been liberally scattered with absolute rubbish. but what we have is potential. maybe 4th is a realistic target for next season, i think we all have to say now that benitez is learning the premiership trade the hard way but learning it he is. the season after next will be, i think, the season when we can safely say we are good or not again.

by **Sean** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:58 am

If we had been knocked out early from the champions league we probabaly would have secured 4th position, but we did not have the resources to compete on the two fronts. Our form in the league games directly after playing in Wednesday night european games reflects this.

We lost our main striker to Madrid before the season started. The player that inherited his position missed most of the season through injury and Alonzo got crocked just as he was stamping his class on the premiership.

I'm disppointed with the league form as well but we have to put things into perspective. Not once has Benitez offered excuses for our league form. Instead, I hope he has learned from his introduction to the premiership and will be able to prepare us for next season.

by **Pablo_Escobar** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:02 pm

Tough topic. Got to look it in 2 perspectives - CL and Premiership.
CL - Great success, little people dreamed about being in the final at the begining of the season. AND FOR THAT RAFA IS GOD.
Premiership - Very mediocre. I belive we've had a hell of bad luck this season - Cisse, and so on. I also think that the newcomers - Spaniards are not customed to such a physical football, next year will be much better

Suming it up from my point of view it has been a good season thus far and it will get only better in Istanbul.

THE CUP IS OURS :buttrock

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:05 pm

Big Niall wrote:I think Rafa might turn out to be a good manager

you know what einstein, i agree with you on that one. winning two la liga's, one uefa cup and getting us to a champions league final in his first season puts him just above the likes on allardyce and curbishley imo.

yes the league form has been nothing short of a joke, especially away from home but i'll tell you why i think that is. apart from having the biggest bout of injuries since the civil war, i think it comes down to the qualities of the clientel. we have a lot of top quality players who are technically superb i.e. garcia, alonso, kewell, morientes. this superb technical ability will get you a long way against teams in europe who are also very technical.

however i just don't think it's in these same players' make-up to apply themselves to the frantic, very physical nature of the premiership week in week out. this to me, explains why hyypia looks like a world beater in europe but then looks distinctly average at times against the hustle and bustle of the premiership strikers.

nevertheless, getting to istanbul is a remarkable feat. nobody, and i mean nobody can outwit rafa tactically in a must win game. he proved it against olympiakos, he proved it in turin and he proved it last tuesday. :cool:

unbelievable, a year ago, if you'd mentioned the possibility of djimi traore and igor biscan playing in a champions league final i'd have died laughing. :laugh:

who's laughing now? :buttrock

by **Sean** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:08 pm

After the european performances how much do you think we'd get for Traore and Biscan during the summer St. Mike ?

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:16 pm

Sean wrote:After the european performances how much do you think we'd get for Traore and Biscan during the summer St. Mike ?

oh at least 10m now :laugh:

on biscan, there have been murmurrings of him being offered a new contract. personally i think one out of him and hamann will be off come the summer.

traore just isn't good enough to play for liverpool imo. about a year ago, the blue sh#te were willing to pay £1.5m for him but the deal fell through for some reason.

by **Starbridge42** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:21 pm

I'd say around £5mill for Traore if we worked hard to sell him and well if we dont offer a contract to biscan he's gone for free cos he'll be out of contract so £0

by **Big Niall** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:36 pm

I admit the "he might be a good manager should be rephrased as "he might be a sucessful manager in England"

The CL is still a cup competition and teams like Wimbledon can win a cup competition - the league is where it is.

Also, Chelsea play their games straight after European gams too and have only lost once in the league and the size of the squad is not an excuse as they play the same team most of the time.

I think Rafa cannot underestimate small teams again and he must buy/select players who not only have skill but have the strength to play against limited hackers like Robbie Savage. To be honest, many of the players haven't played with pride in the league and especially so in the last month

I said before Rafa came that nobody should be abusing the manger until at least 3 seasons are up. I am just pointing out what I consider to be his mistakes and that we have a long way to go even if we do win against Milan.

by **stmichael** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:39 pm

the good thing is though, benitez said in his aftermatch interview yesterday that he is always learning. he will learn from his mistakes this season, i.e. chopping and changing the side too much, will make the necessary changes in the summer (there will be many) and will make us a stronger outfit next season.

we WILL be in the top 4 next season. whether we can break into the top 3 depends on who they bring in.

viva la rafalution. :buttrock

by **siti_zaiton1982** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:54 pm

all of us are very frustrated with the way things went in the league but lets be fair to the gaffer.reaching in the Carling cup & Champions league finals is a boost considering the injuries we had n its only his first season.like the gaffer said,next season we'll be better n better n we won't be 30 points behind from the leaders.believe in Rafa.

YNWA.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:00 pm

personally i'd take the glory of winning the Champions league over 4th place anyday......ok we might not be in the comp next year but so what! We will have made more money in this season CL than we would have form the group stages in 3 years! I still think that if we do win the Champions League Ueffa will have to buckle to pressure and let us in the comp, apparently all the sponsors are demanding that the winners must play next year and i think that might sway the decision.....have them by the balls and their minds will eventually follow!

by **A.B.** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:28 pm

Knee-jerk reaction. You talk about a reality check then perhaps you should get one yourself, if you were expecting instant success in the league from a manager who has never been here before then you must be blind.

People ask why we're good in the CL but poor in the league. It's quite simple. Benitez knows the European competitions but he doesn't know the league and we don't have the squad that can compete in four competitions.

However with all the injuries we've had,etc.. we've still managed to get fifth place. At one point of time we had no strikers. Most teams would had fallen apart completely but we hunged in there.

This season is a pre-season for Rafa, meaning that this season has given him everything he needs to know about the league,oppositions and his players.

I know every year we say next season will be better, but with a manager like Benitez I can almost assure you that next season will in fact be better.

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