Liverpool FC Forum

by **fivecups** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:39 am

maximus wrote:Posted on RAWK, I love this post - and very very thought provoking:

Posted by JessRed76 on February 1, 2005, 11:46:48 AM

As a lifetime AC Milan fan, with a Liverpool supporting girlfriend, I would like to give you my view on Steven Gerrard and his future at Liverpool.

Steven Gerrard: 24 years old, Liverpool captain, from Merseyside, a homegrown talent. Now, I believe most of you reading have played football when kids (some of you are probably still playing now, like me, in those cold Sunday mornings, in some local amateur league, sorting out the nets, the money for the ref, bringing home muddy boots for the missus' delight...).

We all started in the same fashion and so did Mr Gerrard: in the streets and in the school playgrounds, with jumpers for goalposts, spending hours arguing wether the ball was or wasn't gone over a bar that wasn't there to begin with. Preferring a game of football with your mates to anything else that there was in life. And if we weren't playing football... we would be watching it.

Whether you were a striker or a defender, whether you were good or bad, whether you were you or you were Steven Gerrard the dream was one for all of us:

TO WEAR THE LIVERPOOL SHIRT AND THE CAPTAIN'S ARMBAND AT ANFIELD IN FRONT OF THE KOP

You can change that to AC Milan and the San Siro if for me. I am sure every single one of you had that dream of putting on the Red shirt and the armband. Some of you probably still do! Well, so did Steven Gerrard.

This is why as a neutral I can not understand nor tolerate the fact that the guy is even thinking of a career outside Liverpool! Can you?

Being captain of your own team at the age of 24, playing Champions League football ... is that not enough?

If Gerrard was to stay he almost certainly will be Liverpool captain for another 10 years. He will almost certainly win trophies in the next 10 years. He will be Liverpool greatest player during his nearly 20 years with the club's first team. He will be a legend. He will probably be remembered as the best Liverpool player ever. He will be what Franco Baresi has been to Milan.

Does anyone know what Baresi did in the early eighties? Here's what has happened: At 14 Baresi joins Milan after Inter (where is older brother was playing) rejected him, how foolish of them! He makes his debut very young and in 1979 wins the title with Milan. A couple of years later Milan gets relegated from Serie A to Serie B. The club is in a mess having being involved in match fixing and the club's owner ran away. The club was in total crisis, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel was impossible.

A few weeks later city's rival Inter make an offer for Baresi and Baresi's partner in the middle of the defence Collovati. Straight away Collovati joins Inter. A then very young Baresi (21-22) is made captain of a falling giant. He's regarded by most as the best young talent of his generation and the 1982 World Cup is around the corner. Staying with Milan playing in Serie B would probably jeopardise his chances of going to the World Cup. Joining Inter would mean playing alongside his brother and enjoying the race for title every season at a club flushed with money. Collovati had no doubt in his mind that the right choice was to join Inter. But what did Baresi do? The similarity with the Steven Gerrard's situation was so big I had to write this article.

Liverpool are nowhere near as bad as AC Milan was in the early eighties.

What should Steven Gerrard do? What did Franco Baresi do?

I am sure most of you know what Baresi did but I'll tell you anyway: HE STAYED AT MILAN! He played for them in Serie B. He was so good he was picked for the World Cup squad anyway. Milan won the Serie B league and came straight up only to go down again one season later. More offers came in for Baresi. Did he regret his original choice? Did he join Inter, Juve? Did he? Of course he didn't. He played for Milan in Serie B again. That's what I call a man!

In the following years with Milan he won promotion and then went on to win the European Cup three times (now better known as Champions League), he won the Intercontinental Cup twice, the European Super Cup 3 times, the Italian League 5 times (to add to the win in 1979), and played a total of 5 European Cup Finals. He became for every Milan fan 'Il Capitano' (The Captain, capital T and capital C).

When he retired from football in 1997 the club not only organised a match for him in the San Siro where 85,000 paying supporters saw him and the Milan players play the likes of Maradona, Romario, Careca, Koeman, Mattheus but also the jersey with the number 6, the number he worn for so many years, was retired as well. No more Milan players will ever wear the number 6 (this week has been announced that the same will happen with Paolo Maldini's number 3 when he retires).

Thinking forward should Gerrard commit himself to Liverpool for life? I can not see why he shouldn't be able to experience the same glory and all time legendary status. It all goes back to that one dream we had when we were playing in the streets. The day that dream ends football will end with it. I wish Steven Gerrard will realize this.

By the way: how many of you knew who Collovati was? To Milan fans he's a traitor, that's all, who left the club in their hour of need. I have to wash my mouth every time I say his name. Baresi in contrast is an immortal.

© JR76 2005

What an amazing post. Really enjoyed that story, brilliantly written.

What a contrast to Stevie who's clearly already made up his mind.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:30 am

Can't believe it...even a sh1t player like tony cascarino wants to comment about stevie g....... This coming from a player who has changed clubs more often than donald trump changes wives.......

My take, if no new investers coming in, then by all means sell him (if he wants to go). But if L4 is willing to buy the club over, for god's sake KEEP GERRARD......

Just imagine where will chelsea be if they had sold terry & gallas before roman came in....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,27-1483832,00.html

Anonymous Gerrard hurts Anfield morale
By Tony Cascarino

On the move: Gerrard's poor form recently can be explained by the fact that the midfield player knows he will be leaving Liverpool in the summer
(NICK POTTS/PA)

PREVAILING WISDOM suggests that no player is bigger than the club. Yet Michael Owen was at Liverpool. And to judge from his past few performances, which have been poor, Steven Gerrard will continue to be until his inevitable departure from Anfield in the summer. Both stars of England, both undermining and enveloping the Liverpool team and manager with their superstar status.
Gérard Houllier’s response to Owen was largely to ignore the question and try to play him with a series of partners up front — none worked for too long and most were sold on. And while Rafael Benítez was fortunate not to have to deal with that issue, since Owen left soon after the Spaniard’s arrival, he faces a similar dilemma to that of the previous manager. Gerrard, the captain of the most successful club in the history of England, is having a negative impact on the team. The midfield player knows he is leaving; his team-mates know it; Benítez knows it, and the supporters know it. And it is destabilising the club.

By the look of things, Benítez is scared to say anything to Gerrard for fear that any confrontation will spiral into a row at a time when he needs his midfield player to inspire the team in the Carling Cup final and to win a place in the Champions League. Benítez wouldn’t want anything to worsen Gerrard’s form. The Liverpool players will be aware of Benítez’s nervousness. If Benítez were more brave, he would tell Gerrard that he understands that he wants to leave, that he can do so at the end of the season, but until then, he needs him to show the form he was doing at the start of the season.

The midfield player was anonymous against Birmingham City on Saturday — as he was away to Southampton recently — when he trotted around as if it was a practice match, trying some cute threaded passes, but he had no influence. He shrugged his shoulders when passes went astray, attempted some tackles and did little else. He played as if he was counting down the games to his departure and as if his team-mates were not good enough for him — which may be a fair point. Certainly, because of their form, they are hardly in a position to criticise Gerrard for not pulling his weight. But also his Liverpool team-mates will understand that he wants to better himself and that, in his position, they would want to do the same.

I remember a similar scenario at Aston Villa, when the players endured a season of David Platt dreaming of his move to Italy while we struggled in the second part of the season. He was already learning the language. The players whispered it in cliques, but never confronted him. He was a nuisance, at times, for Jozef Venglos, the newly appointed Czech manager. Platt stormed out of training on a couple of occasions, not wanting to do certain exercises. He scored goals without playing well for the team.

He became a hindrance and had a negative effect. The only player who could conceivably have criticised him was Paul McGrath, but no matter the scoreline, the big defender said little. At that stage of my career, had I contemplated saying anything, Platt would have pointed out that I was the club’s record signing, but where were the goals?

I compare that to playing with Andy Townsend and Fabien Barthez, who continued to be outstanding when being approached for a move from Chelsea to Aston Villa and from Marseilles to AS Monaco respectively. And also Roy Keane, who should be a model for Gerrard. Keane was exceptional during his last year at Nottingham Forest while he was being chased by glamorous clubs such as Arsenal, Blackburn Rovers and Manchester United. He would never be the type of player to give less than 100 per cent. Keane was so intimidating that when I drove to training with Ireland, I would be apprehensive about what his mood would be. But he would always inspire players, whether against AC Milan or York City.

Gerrard seems to have lost that attitude from the start of the season. Sure he will perform against Chelsea in the Carling Cup final and against Bayer Leverkusen in the European Cup, but what about upcoming league matches against Newcastle United, Bolton Wanderers and Manchester City?

BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM

WAYNE ROONEY: Everton were relegation candidates with him last season and are Champions League-bound without him.

NICOLAS ANELKA: Real Madrid got a sulky Frenchman and a £23 million hole in their bank account while Arsenal got Thierry Henry, for less than half the transfer fee, and two titles to boot.

KEVIN KEEGAN: The Kop mourned his departure from Liverpool to SV Hamburg until they saw the artistry of Kenny Dalglish and then they celebrated for 14 years.

by **A.B.** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:55 am

Add Zidane and Juventus to that list at the end. Overall he makes a good point.

by **Alanay** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:27 am

We have been talking about this for too long.... Just let him go..... then we have stability in the team...

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:21 pm

there was another gerrard article by tony cascarino in today's times.

i'm f#cking sick of southern journalists writing articles as if gerrard has already left. :angry:

by **mistyred** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:51 pm

Southern Southern Southern ffs get over it Gerrards the one opening his flipin mouth not all the jurnos fault thats what wrong with our bloody support base friggin blind and quick to blame everybody else.

by **Chrissy** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:37 pm

Stevie G - I think he will find it too hard to leave the reds for another prem club. Thats why when the oppurtunity did arise he didn't take it.

by **maximus** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:18 am

Good to hear positive comments from our captain:

Independent

Gerrard's backing for Benitez ability
By Tim Hanlon
18 February 2005

Steven Gerrard, the Liverpool captain, claims he is relishing leading the team and is confident that his manager, Rafael Benitez, will bring trophies to the club.

Gerrard's comments seem to rebut the idea that he is to leave the club. He made it clear that he is now where he has always wanted to be.

"To be captain of Liverpool is what I always dreamed of," Gerrard said. "I come from a family of Liverpool fans and I know what this club means and I am very happy. I am enjoying everything although of course I am desperate for things to get better, but I know this will happen under Benitez. He is a very good coach."

"This campaign has been up and down but we are in a cup final and we have a good challenge ahead in order to finish in the top four. It would be nice to be involved in the title race but we will give it our best shot in the other competitions."

Gerrard does not think that the club is losing its identity with the introduction of so many foreign players, but rather that they are enhancing the team.

"It has been good. We are all mixing well and they have brought a lot of talent, like Morientes who is a nice guy and is picking up English. Obviously there have been a lot of changes and it is going to be a question of time until everything is rosy again," he said.

"The manager has introduced good players but they have taken time to settle which is normal.

"I am certain that with time the manager will improve things. With a complete change in coaching staff and seven players in and seven out it is going to be difficult but the boys are enjoying training."

Gerrard also claimed that his former Anfield team-mate Michael Owen is enjoying his Spanish experience and has no plans to leave.

"He loves the club and he is doing really well. I speak to him all the time. We keep in touch through text messages and phone calls but I can see how he is getting on from the television. He wants to stay. He has settled really well and likes the city. He is scoring goals and if he plays more - which is what he wants - then things would be even better."

by **jonnymac1979** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:06 pm

Paul Tomkins latest piece on Gerrard

You really do want to read this.

He's meeting Chelsea officials next week apparently.

by **jonnymac1979** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:28 pm

Particularly thought his paragraph towards the end was apt.

There is definitely a sea-change in opinion towards the player. Not so long ago he was untouchable, the biggest local hero since Fowler, and moving up to stand alongside the very best players in the club's history. Now there is little unconditional love. What love there is is based purely on the hope he'll stay, and only if that condition is met will that affection be shown in full force. Without him signing a new long-term deal at Liverpool (which is never going to happen), there will be no long-term dedication. Words about staying will ring hollow.

by **The_Rock** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:09 pm

agree one thing tomkins says....

As for the whole "Gerrard to Chelsea" saga, I'm sick of it. Aren't you?

by **jonnymac1979** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:39 pm

Agree. Was speaking to a Spurs fan yesterday and he asked me about Gerrard. I'm all talked out to be honest. The sooner it's resolved the better.

by **jonnymac1979** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:47 pm

Article from this website

A year ago, this article would have been unthinkable. Had this been written eighteen months ago, there’d have been a queue of people lining up to laugh at these views, and I’d have been there at the front. However, several factors are now combining to make this article possible, and they’re also combining to start to change the tide of thinking on the subject of Steven Gerrard.

The first factor is that Gerrard isn’t playing as well this season as he has for the last two. Twelve months ago, he was the best midfielder in the country, bar none. Now, that is no longer true. Whilst the media are now falling over themselves to heap praise on him and describe him as some sort of one man team, many fans will point out the reality, and the reality is that if Liverpool’s Player of the Year were decided tomorrow, it would be Jamie Carragher collecting the award, rather than the much publicised captain. If there has been, with the possible exception of John Terry, a more consistent and capable central defender in England this season, then I would be amazed. Carragher is confident and assured, he loves defending and would run through brick walls for Liverpool Football Club. He is the most club’s most loyal and dedicated servant.

Being slightly bolder, the point could also be made that Gerrard, at least technically, may no longer even be the best midfielder at Liverpool, never mind the Premiership. Xabi Alonso has plenty of gifts in his locker that Gerrard does not, and his broken ankle might well be the final cruel blow that costs Benitez so dearly in his first season. If Gerrard and Alonso play together again, watch the two of them together very closely – contrast how many times Alonso’s passes find their mark and how many times he concedes possession with how many times Gerrard does.

In spite of this, it is of course important to make clear that Gerrard is still a class player, and very important to the team. Let’s also make clear that his contribution this season has been mostly extremely valuable and at times outstanding; his goal against Olympiakos was one of those absolutely timeless, once in a lifetime moments that no-one will ever forget. However, that goal also disguised the fact that he’d been missing for most of that game, as he had been against Watford at Anfield in the Carling Cup semi-final before his goal. It’s also hard to escape the fact that the hallmark of Liverpool’s most disappointing recent performances – at St Mary’s and St Andrews – has been the complete absence of their captain.

Dips in form are understandable, and every footballer is entitled to the odd off day. The trouble with Gerrard is that his dips in form coincide with this ongoing circus of interest in his future, or should that read ‘his future move to Chelsea’. It’s almost like Liverpool fans are supposed to be grateful that he’s sticking around with their team and saving their skin. Save it. Anyone who doubts that Gerrard, last summer, had a meeting with Mourinho and Kenyon very similar to the one Ashley Cole has just been caught having is, at best, very naïve. He was probably moments away from joining Roman’s boys last summer, and is content to let speculation grow that he’ll join this summer. And let’s be realistic here – he has had every chance in the last few months to say “I’m definitely staying”, or “I’m prepared to be reasonable and give Benitez more than one injury-crippled season to prove himself”, but guess what? He hasn’t.

But the tide is turning. Fans are becoming absolutely sick of speculation surrounding Gerrard’s future and more and more of them are not prepared to tolerate it any longer. If the media want to continue their campaign to paint Gerrard as a one man team destined to sell out to Stamford Bridge, then let them do so. No player is bigger than this club, no player should be allowed to string the club and its management along in the way that Gerrard is, and no player is irreplaceable. Those lessons should have been never clearer than now, after the Michael Owen debacle. Now it’s time for Gerrard to knuckle down and publicly commit his future to the club, or to clear things up for good and tell us that he’s off. Put up or shut up Steven, because the club that you captain and the club that’s given you everything you’ve got has had enough.

by **fivecups** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:39 pm

Im sick of this 'Gerard bashing' by LFC supporters as well to be honest.

Lets leave it until he leaves in the summer, we've got plenty to play for until then.

The reason for the resentment is clear. It's the same reason that Stevie's form has dipped over the past couple of months - he's leaving - he knows it and we all know it as well. He's given up on LFC and is waiting to move. remember 2-3 months ago he was dragging the rest of the team through games.

I not condoning or accepting this attitude. I hate the fact that it has happened. Any player no matter what their ability should always give 100%. Read the Baresi story above for inspiration. My stance on this remains unaltered. If Stevie is not fully commited to the club we should sell him for as much money as we can get. And he's not.

BUT
Somehow a lot of our supporters have managed to use this to decide that Stevie's not the world class player we once lauded him as. He is you know. I've watched him for too many years to start back-tracking on that one after a couple of poor months. As I think Big Mick said - you put him in a top team where he has to fight for his place and you'll quickly forget your current misplaced suspicons.

by **A.B.** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:07 pm

Fivecups I'm annoyed by Stevie for a couple reasons. First one of them is that he had the chance to leave in the summer but didn't. I'd hate to see him wear another clubs shirt but why sign when you know that you're going to leave the club at the end of the season? What was he expecting from Rafa? A miracle?

Now he's draggin himself down with these poor performances. He's a world class player but he's not playing at a world class level at the time being. He is also the captain and should show that he is the captain on the pitch more.

Instead of getting into the face of Riley he was being all friendy with the Chelsea scum.

He put extreme amount of pressure on himself,his team-mates and the club with his comments before we played Olympiakos. Yes he has ambitions but so does every player.

Before we played Man Utd he talked about how the rest would have to play well and be up for a battle against Man Utd but he himself couldn't do what he said his team-mates should do.

Most say that we win when Gerrard plays well, thats not the case. We played well against Charlton and Fulham where as Gerrard played below his standards.

This is not a one man club and I am tired of reading "Gerrard got the Reds through".

Every player will have a bad form but he should at least try to care about whats going on the pitch. He seems to be another planet and that annoys the hell out of me.

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