Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:52 am

[quote] "Until you find a better player than Smicer though you keep him as a squad member. If Liverpool went and sold Traore, Vignal, Smicer and Heskey without replacing them it would severely weaken the squad."

GH has had ample opportunity to do this. 4 and a half years and he still hasn't figured out what the majority of LFC fans already know and that is - Smicer simply isn't good enough for LFC

by **JBG** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:35 pm

I agree with you Stu on your last point.

An additional skill that Baros appears to have is that when he runs with the ball at defences (Owen and Pongolle - or at least what I've seen so far from Pongolle - are better at running onto through balls) he is extremely difficult to stop as he has very good upper body strength. Baros can be selfish and frustrating at times but he has won us a lot of free kicks with his dribbling.

by **Starbridge42** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:50 pm

Very true

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:15 pm

agreeing again with me JBG?

You feelin' ok son?

by **Owzat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:21 pm

I think Smicer suffers from Houllier syndrome - a good player played in a role he's not suited to.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:30 pm

GH has had ample opportunity to do this. 4 and a half years and he still hasn't figured out what the majority of LFC fans already know and that is - Smicer simply isn't good enough for LFC

I think thats boll##ks. First team players should be replaced first and foremost. Not squad players.

You build a first 11. Then your squad takes shape from there.

by **Owzat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:34 pm

You should have a squad with players competing for 1st XI places. You should replace the weaker players first, if Smicer is replaced by a better midfielder who competes for a place then the squad is strengthened. There is something seriously wrong with selection if a player in the 1st XI is replaced before a fringe/squad player.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:42 pm

no but we're building a team.

the priorities are a Right mid who can improve the first 11, better than Murphy, Smicer and Diouf, a striker to improve the front line better than Heskey, Pongolle and Baros and a Centre half with pace who's at least as good as Henchoz if not better.

That way Henchoz, Murphy and Baros become squad players. Then you can afford to offload Maybe Heskey and Biscan.

You don't replace Heskey with a player of Baros' quality. Its not worth it. You replace the decent players with class. Thats how you move forward.

by **Owzat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:46 pm

But Heskey shouldn't be in the XI so I would replace him first. Who knows why Houllier persists with Heskey. Baros should be first choice and you replace the squad/fringe player Heskey and Baros gets replaced by the new quality striker.

If you were looking for a left full back, would you sell Carragher first or Riise? If you were looking for a right winger, would you sell Diouf or Partridge? (choosing less obvious 1st XI players is being kind to you really)

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:01 pm

But Heskey shouldn't be in the XI so I would replace him first. Who knows why Houllier persists with Heskey. Baros should be first choice and you replace the squad/fringe player Heskey and Baros gets replaced by the new quality striker.

If you were looking for a left full back, would you sell Carragher first or Riise? If you were looking for a right winger, would you sell Diouf or Partridge? (choosing less obvious 1st XI players is being kind to you really)

Well thats bad management then simple as that.

You have to replace Baros. If we had Anelka Heskey would be gone and Baros would be 3rd choice. He'd be pushed down in the pecking order. Thats how you build a squad and a team. You replace players from your first 11 and make them into squad players otherwise you never ever move forward.

As for your second point i can't see what you are sayin. Why sell anyone? we aren't a selling club. We don't need to sell. We are building a squad and a team. We need as many good player as possible.

You sell the cr#p and dead wood who aren't usefull anymore. Biscan, Heskey (if we get Cisse), Diao etc.

by **big al** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:54 pm

Finally something Stu and I agree on. 'The problem is right mid' that has been a problem since Steve McManaman went to Real. Houllier has f'd about with differing perutations instaed of going out and buying a quality player in that posistion. Sto I think even you would agree that this has been one of his major failings. We need balance we need to shift the balance of the team away form Kewell having to either play right or carry the attack on the right. We need mid fielders to score goals in order to keep defenders honest so the don'tsit so far back in their own half picking up the runs of Owen and Heskey. iF our Midfield was scoring the goals they should be. Owen and Heskey wouldbe getting far more goals. But its not there. Its not the players fault its the manager. The sooner every Liverpool fans agrees what the problem really is the sooner we put pressure on for positive change. I don't hate GH far from it But I know he's out of his depth. If any fan can honestly put there hand on their heart and say it really fine then let them show themselves. even Stu our most ardent Houllier loyalist hsa given us over a dozen posts which point out the failings of GH. STU Honour him for what he's done make your house always open to him respect his past success'es but recognise he has done everything he can and should go!

by **anfieldadorer** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:50 am

DUDEK,
CARRAGHER,
HYYPIA,
HENCHOZ, FINNAN,
GERRARD,
KEWELL,
HAMANN,
CHEYROU,
OWEN,
NOT EMILE.
PLUS GREAT PSYCHOMOTIVATOR AND LUCK.
I'LL SAVE THE BUCKS FOR ZIDANE.

by **anfieldadorer** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:51 am

DUDEK,
CARRAGHER,
HYYPIA,
HENCHOZ,
FINNAN,
GERRARD,
KEWELL,
HAMANN,
CHEYROU,
OWEN,
NOT EMILE.
PLUS GREAT PSYCHOMOTIVATOR AND LUCK.
I'LL SAVE THE BUCKS FOR ZIDANE.

by **Owzat** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:34 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
But Heskey shouldn't be in the XI so I would replace him first. Who knows why Houllier persists with Heskey. Baros should be first choice and you replace the squad/fringe player Heskey and Baros gets replaced by the new quality striker.

If you were looking for a left full back, would you sell Carragher first or Riise? If you were looking for a right winger, would you sell Diouf or Partridge? (choosing less obvious 1st XI players is being kind to you really)

Well thats bad management then simple as that.

You have to replace Baros. If we had Anelka Heskey would be gone and Baros would be 3rd choice. He'd be pushed down in the pecking order. Thats how you build a squad and a team. You replace players from your first 11 and make them into squad players otherwise you never ever move forward.

As for your second point i can't see what you are sayin. Why sell anyone? we aren't a selling club. We don't need to sell. We are building a squad and a team. We need as many good player as possible.

You sell the cr#p and dead wood who aren't usefull anymore. Biscan, Heskey (if we get Cisse), Diao etc.

You're looking at the same thing in a different way. I say we replace the reserve and the player we bought goes into the 1st team. He is replacing the reserve in the squad but displacing the 1st team player.

We can't just collect players, the wages these days make it impractical. We have way too many midfielders and why pay the wages of the likes of Diao if they are unlikely to make it into the first XI. "We are not a selling club" - I'm not advocating we sell out best players, we can't keep all the players we ever sign!

by **115-1073096938** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:29 pm

I know that. But to have a good squad like i've said you need to have certain amounts of players.

2 Keepers, Dudek, Kirkland.
2 Right backs, Carragher, Finnan.
2 Left backs, Riise, Vignal.
4 Centre halfs, Henchoz, Hyypia, Traore... Biscan.
4 wide players... 1 of which must be a winger, Smicer, Kewell, Murphy...

??
4 central midfielders, Gerrard, Hamann, Welsh, Le Tallec.
4 strikers, Owen, Heskey, Pongolle, Baros.

Thats a minimum. If you have any less as Liverpool do and you are hit with the injuries we've had this season your in s##t. Simple as that.

If it was me Heskey would be replace dby Cisse, Malbranque brought in to play right mid and i'd look for centre half in the same mould as Ferdinand, Boumsong or Gallas to replace Biscan then i'd say we have a class squad. Any other senior players in there i'd get rid. Apart from maybe Cheyrou who's starting to show his potential.

I'm also not saying these players would play in these positions every week, as Murphy would be used as backup in the middle and Carragher at left back but you need to have at least this number of good players to challenge on all fronts. That squad would be good enough. We are missing three players. Thats all.

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