Liverpool FC Forum

by **MSj.** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:48 pm

The Two faces of Liverpool

For too many years now, as we’ve seen title after title slip away, we’ve been generally personified by one word - ‘inconsistent.’ I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, ‘inconsistent’ is just another word for ‘not good enough.’ Yes, we can play great stuff at times, but we can just as often be average and, as recently witnessed against Southampton, occasionally shambolic.

So I got to thinking, exactly what is the problem? After days of pondering, I concluded that it’s the same problem as for any other team too ‘inconsistent’ to challenge at the top of the league…. quality players!

Now I know that sounds very obvious and simplistic, but please, bear with me. Great teams don’t necessarily have to have 20 world-class players. Just think back to Liverpool’s dominance of the 70s and 80s. Kevin McDonald, Craig Johnston, Gary Gillespie don’t exactly make the all time greats list. But even players like Tommy Smith, Phil Neal and Alan Kennedy – European cup winning legends - were more ‘solid’ than spectacular.

But what teams DO need is a set of technically proficient players alongside a healthy sprinkling of world-class ones. The above mentioned players played alongside Hansen, Lawrenson, Dalglish, Souness, Rush, Keegan, Beardley, Barnes, Aldridge, McDermott, Kennedy, McMahon etc etc etc… many of these were world class. ALL were, at worst, superb.

And that’s exactly where I think the problem lies now. Gerard Houllier really did make a pigs ear of the squad by the time he was shown the door, but even Rafa isn’t 100% blameless in his signings so far either – see Josemi and Nunez for details! The good news though, is that Rafa seems to be realistic and honest enough to admit his mistakes. Houllier pig-headedly kept playing his not-even-nearly-men, hoping one day to say ‘ I told you so.’ It never happened - nor was it ever going to.

Take a look at this team:

Dudek
Finnan, Hyypia, Carragher, Riise
Sinama, Gerrard, Alonso, Kewell
Morientes, Baros

Now if that team played together week in, week out and grew to get to really know each other, I think it has the beating of just about anyone. Sami might be nearing the end, but all great teams have 1 or 2 players at that stage of their careers. My reserves for this 'team' would be Cisse and Hamann.

Now, in comparison, take a look at this one:

Kirkland
Josemi, Pellegrino, Traore, Warnock
Nunez, Diao, Biscan, Cheyrou
Mellor, Garcia

Anyone fancy the chances of this team winning the Premiership? How about top 4? Thought not! It’s a little unfair, as the likes of Warnock could possibly make the first grouping. Nunez and Garcia might yet prove the doubters (and I’ll openly admit that I’m one) wrong (and I hope they do), but right now, they only make the ‘reserve’ pool. The twelfth man for this ‘team’ would be Diouf.

My point is, that if almost any of the top eleven are injured or suspended, we have back up players in almost every position who simply aren’t good enough, technically, to replace them. And that’s Rafa’s biggest conundrum. I keep hearing that we need to buy some more world class players, but the problem is, we already have the 25 players listed above. Add Vignal, Le Tallec, Henchoz, Smicer snd Diarra and the number becomes 30…. yes 30 first team squad players! And that doesn’t include reserves like Potter, Whitbread, Welsh and Raven. That’s 30 players who are, have been, or were bought to be, first team choices at one time or another. Many of them cost us a small fortune in transfer fees, and are still taking home most people’s annual wages every week.

I ask you, how many of these 30 players would you keep if you were given the choice of either sticking with them or recouping the price we paid for them? I’d personally keep 12 of the ‘first team’ 13 mentioned – the one to miss out being Dudek due to his mental frailty in big games.

Of the second group of 17 players, I’d keep exactly…. 3! They would be Henchoz, Garcia and Warnock. Henchoz, because I still rate him very highly and think we miss his 90-minute effort and effective partnership with Sami. Garcia because he’s shown occasional flashes of brilliance, and Warnock because he looks like he has the potential to play at this level.

So, of the 30 mentioned, I’d dump 15 of them, and I’d hedge a bet that most of you would dump around the same number, give or take one or two. And this is where, I think, lies the key to our problems. I believe that you must have virtually EVERY player technically capable of playing at this level, and we have only about 50% of the entire squad capable of doing so.

Each time one of the second choice players replaces a first choice one the chain is weakened. Football, played the right way, is all about 11 players constantly passing, moving, feeding off each other, and hitting the right pass, with the right weight, at the right time. If you can achieve this, it’s poetry in motion. But to do it successfully, every link in the chain must be strong, or the chain breaks. How often do Liverpool fail in their build up due to a misplaced pass, a poor judgement call, a technical mistake, a long ball when a short one is required, a cross that finds the stands rather than the player, a schoolboy error? Too often is the answer.

Another problem is that of the 15 ‘strong’ links, none of them are goalkeepers! This is a huge void that has already been the cause of us losing the points that would currently have us challenging for second, not fourth. Neither Kirkland nor Dudek have proven to be ‘consistent’ (there’s that word again!) enough it at this level.

Of the other ‘first team’ players, 4 are currently out, 3 for the rest of the season. The fourth, Kewell, is thankfully almost ready to return. But what this means is that these 3-4 players are routinely replaced with weaker ones. The team - the chain - is effectively weakened every time one of these key players is unfit to play.

I believe this to be the single root cause of our ‘inconsistency.’ We simply don’t have enough players of the calibre required to compete at top 3 Premiership level. Rafa’s task – and it’s a huge one - is to slowly (but hopefully not too slowly!) replace each one with a more technically proficient player – each one being of top Premiership calibre. He’s already managed it with the signings of Alonso and Morientes, but there’s a long, long way to go.

For our part as fans, we must keep our expectations in check. Of the 15 players above that I singled out for the chop, a massive 11 of them are Houllier signings – that’s an entire first team of transfer fees and salaries that must be eliminated for us to move forward.

I’ve no doubt Rafa will take us back to where we belong, but he must be given time. Right now the terrible bad luck with injuries is forcing his hand, but so too are contractual agreements and high salaries still being paid to Houllier’s flops. It takes time to clean up a back yard when it’s been so heavily neglected before you took ownership of the house - and weed killer isn’t that cheap these days either!

As Rafa gets his injured players back, and is given another summer of wheeling and dealing, we’ll start to see the fruits of his labour. But until then, it’s going to be a bumpy ride we’re going to have to endure for a while. It’s ludicrous that some fans are already questioning his appointment after only 7 months in charge and the horrendous bad luck he’s had with injuries.

Time will tell of course, but I have a feeling that the signing of Rafa Benitez might well turn out to be one of the greatest signings our famous club has ever made.

Let’s give the man the support he needs - and deserves - and give him the time he needs to change the face of Liverpool FC

Alex Malone

by **Ciggy** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:08 pm

Wow great post Alex pretty much agree with everything youve said. But Henchoz is having a medical as we speak with celtic so hes a goner. Also Biscan will move on in the summer, and probably Cheyrou and Diouf will be off off our books by then too.
But for us to replace all this deadwood still on the wage bill we need someone to come in and invest BIG in the club, and not interfere with Rafa and leave him to the job in hand.
Just give him the requiered funds he needs to start building the team up into a winning side again.

by **MSj.** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:37 pm

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:Wow great post Alex pretty much agree with everything youve said. But Henchoz is having a medical as we speak with celtic so hes a goner. Also Biscan will move on in the summer, and probably Cheyrou and Diouf will be off off our books by then too.
But for us to replace all this deadwood still on the wage bill we need someone to come in and invest BIG in the club, and not interfere with Rafa and leave him to the job in hand.
Just give him the requiered funds he needs to start building the team up into a winning side again.

Lol sorry I am not Alex I should of made that clear .

I copied and pasted from a web site ,it is a great post though .

by **82-1074641017** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:46 pm

Maybe the fact our team are a pile of b0llocks :down:

Legend Roberts

by **The Ace1983** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:40 pm

Wow. What an eyeful, but there is definatly a worthy point there. good post.

I recently posted a formula which I think is used by all championship winning teams. It goes as follows:
All CWTs Contain

Top Quality Players: 7-8
Good Squad players: 4-5
All Rounders: 3

I did use Real Madrid in my last Example, but let's try Arsenal this time:

TQP: Henry, Reyes, Pires, Ljundberg, Viera, Campball, Toure, Cole

GSP: Lauren, Gilberto, Fabregas, V Persie, Edu

ARs: Bergkamp, Clichy, Cygan

Now if you take this and make an outfield team and a bench, you have a championship winning squad. This theory can be applied to Real, Barca, Inter, AC, Chelsea, Bayern, Man Ure, Juventus and Valencia. All of these teams are either on their way to winning this season, or have set up long dynisties that we have witnessed win time and time again. Liverpools Formula is still somewhat missing:

TQP: Gerrard, Cisse, Carragher, Baros, Morientes, Alonso, Riise

GSP: Hamman, Hyypia, Sinima, Finnan

ARs: Garcia, Traore

So this shows that we are missing one TQP, one GSP and one ARs. So, by this rationel if we bought Aimar, SWP and a solid defender, for example we should be able to challenge for titles, and we could probably fund this by flogging Nunez, Diao, Diouf, Biscan, Mellor, Kewell and a couple of others. Championship winning squads are not big, they are good. We are onour way and we should be challenging next season and therfore why not winning. We're through the looking glass here people. A few shrewd buys and good purchases and we will be there. Our time is nearly at hand, and we can move to the light and... Sorry, got a bit carried away there.

So, to summarise, we are on the right direction to lose the monicor of "inconsistant" and gain the new title of "Great" without the word "past" attached. Lets just get behind the team and instead of signing every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes on the market, we will buy the players that are truly good enough to pull on the red shirt.

Viva La Rafa-lution!

by **woof woof !** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:24 am

MSj. wrote:The Two faces of Liverpool

A good read msj, where did you find it ?

by **Wangdangle** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:09 pm

Excellent post msj, couldn't have put it better myself, and I'm really getting tired of people already moaning about Rafa - and convieniently not mentioning the luck we've had with injuries. I pretty much agree with ace too....although I'd have to say I think Kewell IS a TQP, but with all the niggling injuries he's had he hasn't really had the chance to show it, thus I'd be very suprised if we don't start to see his true prowess by the end of this season (hopefully helping us finish 4th!)

ps. Hi everyone, first post and it seems like a really good board you have here, looking forward to some good discussion!

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:06 pm

The Ace1983 wrote:Wow. What an eyeful, but there is definatly a worthy point there. good post.

I recently posted a formula which I think is used by all championship winning teams. It goes as follows:
All CWTs Contain

Top Quality Players: 7-8
Good Squad players: 4-5
All Rounders: 3

I did use Real Madrid in my last Example, but let's try Arsenal this time:

TQP: Henry, Reyes, Pires, Ljundberg, Viera, Campball, Toure, Cole

GSP: Lauren, Gilberto, Fabregas, V Persie, Edu

ARs: Bergkamp

I have stopped the quote at the exact place it lost all validity.

Surely a mistake that Dennis Bergkamp is an "all rounder" and not "top quality".

by **MSj.** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:38 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
MSj. wrote:The Two faces of Liverpool

A good read msj, where did you find it ?

Here is the link woof woof

by **niv15** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:56 pm

Wangdangle wrote:Excellent post msj, couldn't have put it better myself, and I'm really getting tired of people already moaning about Rafa - and convieniently not mentioning the luck we've had with injuries. I pretty much agree with ace too....although I'd have to say I think Kewell IS a TQP, but with all the niggling injuries he's had he hasn't really had the chance to show it, thus I'd be very suprised if we don't start to see his true prowess by the end of this season (hopefully helping us finish 4th!)

ps. Hi everyone, first post and it seems like a really good board you have here, looking forward to some good discussion!

Yes, I second that. Though Kewell has his fair share of injuries and inconsistencies, that's no doubt that he's quite a world class player. Let's hope he gets back his form. Coupled with a few more players in obvious weak spots ( Centre Def, Right Wing and also some good squad players), surely we will become serious challengers once again. We need a new sponsor to fund our spendings in the market. (refer to L4?)

by **The Ace1983** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:39 am

To answer a few of you:

Harry Kewell WAS a TQP, but has shown little evidence of this during his time at Anfield. You can't compare the Harry Kewell of the last couple of seasons with the Kewell of Leeds fame who propelled them with the help of Viduka, Smith and a few others. I still hold Houllier accountable for this, but I am still hopeful that the old Kewell comes back. You can't compare him to Duff, Robben, Giggs, Pires or any of the other top left sided wingers of the prem anymore.

Secondly, Bergkamp WAS a TQP and you do have a valid point, but if he was still a TQP, he would feature week in, week out in one position. He is now behind Henry, Reyes and Ljundberg in the pecking order and is used in a variety of attacking positions. He still has world quality, but he is also a utility these days and because of his age, he can't operate with the same flair that he used to have.

This formula of mine is not flawless and it up for discussion of course. It is only a guideline, but like I said, you can use it on any of the top, championship winning teams in europe. But doesn't it fill you with hope that we are only three or four players away from title contention, and we have a manager with a shrewd eye, good tactics and a positive purchasing sense?

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