Liverpool FC Forum

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:19 pm

Because he's not a natural leader. Steven Gerrard is.

Gerrard is also a local lad.

by **Ade** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:01 am

Evening all. First post tonight, and just to clarify from the off, I'm an armchair fan, and have been ever since Hillsborough, so all my views are from outside the stadium.

Got to agree about Biscan being a liability: when GH bought him we were told he was the Gullit of the Balkans (Cheyrou was the new Zidane, blah blah) and the bloke clearly isn't good enough to play for us at this level. It's easy to slag him off, and he does make at least one brilliant interception per game, but for me he epitomises the state we're in. We're arguing over whether a player this limited and error-prone is good enough for us: there shouldn't be a debate - he's sh##e.

It also, for me, points up GH's big problem - his ego. How he thinkg Biscan and Sami can be a better option that SH and SH I don't know - perhaps when Carra or Finnan slot in at RB he'll move Henchoz back to the centre, but Biscan shouldn't be at the club.

Difference b/w GH and Wenger and Fergie is that when the last 2 buy players who turn out to be sh##e, they ship them out sharpish. GH lets them infest our team, insult the shirt and drag the good players down.

by **supersub** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:29 am

Which ultimately brings in to question Houllier's ability to manage our team and his capability to attract real talent to the club.

by **azriahmad** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:43 am

OK Supersub, perhaps Biscan had played worse games...I won't go on and being a frustrated fan, we do tend to single out the worse players in the team even though it is impossible that they are to blame everytime.
I thought Henchoz played very well at right back and Hyppia has been exposed for his lack of pace so many times over the past 2 seasons. In fact, the Liverpool defence is somewhat cumbersome. The question is, can this be cured by buying quicker foreign defenders anr throw them into the deep end without giving him time to settle - Silvestre has had a few seasons to gradually adjust to the premiership and Blanc was exposed tima and time again but he had plenty of experience to compensate.
I read today that Houllier is looking at a 6ft 4in Stipe Pletikosa of Hajduk Split who is a Croation international. Heard of him, anyone?

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:07 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Sell Dudek? Why?

He's a top class goalkeeper.

He is a better keeper than Kirkland at present anyway. Kirkland is an excellent keeper now, but he's not the finished article, in a few years he will be awsome. Besides, with Kirks being so injury prone only a complete fool would sell Dudek.

I have to disagree, I think Kirkland is already better than Dudek, I know it is a big statement to make, but I have great belief in Kirkland.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:09 pm

KOP-1892 wrote:I cannot understand why so many of you dislike Dudek when he is our best 'keeper, he is a much better all-round player than Kirkland and to be quite honest Kirkland is being raved about for nothing, correct me if i'm wrong but he hasn't even kept a clean sheet for us yet. I feel much safer with Dudek in net's despite a few blunder's but hey, what 'keeper do you know hasn't made a mistake?

I don't dislike Dudek, it just think there should be clear order of keepers, Kirkland first, Jones second and Luzi third. Dudek is on a relatively high wage and will not be happy to sit on the bench.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:11 pm

KOP-1892 wrote:I cannot understand why so many of you dislike Dudek when he is our best 'keeper, he is a much better all-round player than Kirkland and to be quite honest Kirkland is being raved about for nothing, correct me if i'm wrong but he hasn't even kept a clean sheet for us yet. I feel much safer with Dudek in net's despite a few blunder's but hey, what 'keeper do you know hasn't made a mistake?

I think he kept a clean sheet against Galatasary 2 seasons ago.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:13 pm

the return of beavis wrote:
Has wrote:I think we should try to keep him on a perament basis and get Dudek of the wage bill, I have always been a fan of Jones.

Is that wise?
He is 36 for gods sake hardly one for the future.
And I wouldnt put him up there with the Tim Howards and Carlo Cudicinis of this world.
As short term fair enough but a long term deal come on?

He is not there for the future, he is here to help Kirkland, not moan and provide good cover, you can't just fill your squad with players that should be in the first team, then you get unrest,

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:15 pm

the return of beavis wrote:What worries me is that Paul Jones said in the Echo today he turned down a permanent move to Pompey to join the Reds on loan.
I just have a bad feeling Houllier is going to keep him a bit longer than a month

That would be a good thing, he is boyhood Liverpool supporter and will be happy to play second fiddle for the next 2 years.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:17 pm

stu_the_red wrote:People alway overlook the injury problem. Squad players like Smicer, Biscan, Traore, Riise, Murphy, Heskey are all good players to have. Squad players aren't of an equal quality to first team players at any club bar Chelsea so it does become a problem when you have to throw them all in at the same time.

If they come in, in 1's and 2's the team doesn't suffer, but when there is 5 or 6 squad players in the starting line up thats where the inconsitency comes from.

Very good point, is should be clear what your best 11 is. and the clear order of your three keepers is important.

by **Owzat** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:22 pm

I still rate Dudek higher than Kirkland. Dudek had a really bad spell and a number of howlers which everyone remembers, especially that Forlan goal, but we all tend to forget some of the brilliant saves he makes. I feel Biscan does an ok job but is prone to the errors that cost goals - the fantastic save by Jones was a result of Biscan's poor defending. I think we looked more solid at the back and maybe it is no coincidence that Henchoz has played in the last three games and we have kept three consecutive clean sheets. I reckon Biscan could do a job at right-back but an experienced centre-back is needed in the centre of defence not a makeshift one.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:23 pm

stu_the_red wrote:I don't read the posts?

Erm... hello... i openly addmitted it was my fault... want me to drag the old thread up for proof?

Secondly i Hyypia's form last season wasn't bad at all. He had a few off games but he was still a damn site better than Riise and Traore.

His form suffered because he is playing with less quality and still is. When Carragher and Henchoz are back either side of him we'll see him back to his very best.

I think Hyypia's form was not as bad as some have said. He set such high standars that as soon as he droped below them he was vilafied.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:03 pm

Owzat wrote:I still rate Dudek higher than Kirkland. Dudek had a really bad spell and a number of howlers which everyone remembers, especially that Forlan goal, but we all tend to forget some of the brilliant saves he makes. I feel Biscan does an ok job but is prone to the errors that cost goals - the fantastic save by Jones was a result of Biscan's poor defending. I think we looked more solid at the back and maybe it is no coincidence that Henchoz has played in the last three games and we have kept three consecutive clean sheets. I reckon Biscan could do a job at right-back but an experienced centre-back is needed in the centre of defence not a makeshift one.

I agree that Biscan does a decent job but we would be better of putting him at right back and Henchoz at centre back.

by **115-1073096938** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:06 pm

Selling Dudek is madness and Houllier won't do it unless he wants to leave.

Which he doesn't.

Both himself and Kirkland have in the past openly stated they are good friends and are enjoying playing for the club. If ones happy to sit on the bench for a period of time then let them do it. Both are class keepers, Kirkland still only being a prospect so there is no need, no point and no sense in selling either one of them.

by **JBG** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:04 pm

I like Dudek a lot and I think if he played in a successful side like Arsenal and UTD his occasional mistake wouldn't be noticed, and many would probably rave about him being the best keeper in the land.

However, I just think its a bit silly having two very good goalkeepers when we would be better off selling one and using the transfer fee and wages on a new centre half.

As for Biscan, he's doing an ok job but ultimately he will cost us big time this season. His mistake in the first half could have been disasterous and his error at the end - when he tried to control the ball in the box by heading it at the ground - needlessly gave away a corner when all he had to do was lob it away. Both were relatively unforced errors, the kind that someone like Kevin Lisbie or Paul Dickov of Charlton and Leiciester will exploit when they come to Anfield this season, let alone the Van Nistlerooys and Henrys.

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