Liverpool FC Forum

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:58 pm

Klopp is German ,so does he manage this team with the methodical attention to detail we associate with a German ? Why is it that when we bring a manager in to instill the qualities their respective countries are renowned for they seem to bin them at the door before they set foot inside the club ? Is it just our club that has this effect on managers ? I mean Conti is Italian and Chelsea are almost frighteningly rigid and solid at the back,Guardiola is Spanish and his City team play fluent short intricate passing certainly not dissimilar to his Barcelona team ?

My question is this :As a club,are we insistent on the type of football the manager is expected to play,do we as the most ebullient of fans provide a kind of safety net for our managers with our at times unconditional love for this club almost to the extent a manager will abandon the core principles which has made his teams so effective ?

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:17 pm

I dont think he has abandoned his core principles, but I am coming to the conclusion that hes making it up as he goes along? I know him and his team plan everything meticulously, but when there is a major error, or continual fu'ck ups, he seems to shrug it of with a "sh'it happens" type of explanation?
:nod

by **redshade** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:55 pm

I didn't really follow Klopp when he was thriving with Dortmund so i would like to know how much resemblance do we have with Klopps Dortmund.

Like said by REDBEER that usually a manager holds on to his blueprint and establishes it wherever he goes with possible tweeks here and there. Maureens teams seemed to have always been the same. A solid defense with a solid DM, good AM and a tonked up striker.

I don't think Klopp has abandoned his philosophy but defensively I'm not sure. From what i read Klopp did have this "heavy metal style at Dortmund". But with that style he also had a solid defense.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:47 am

redshade » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:55 pm wrote:I didn't really follow Klopp when he was thriving with Dortmund so i would like to know how much resemblance do we have with Klopps Dortmund.

Like said by REDBEER that usually a manager holds on to his blueprint and establishes it wherever he goes with possible tweeks here and there. Maureens teams seemed to have always been the same. A solid defense with a solid DM, good AM and a tonked up striker.

I don't think Klopp has abandoned his philosophy but defensively I'm not sure. From what i read Klopp did have this "heavy metal style at Dortmund". But with that style he also had a solid defense.

Dortmund played a more controlled game than he plays with Liverpool ,their midfield was filled with invention and a steely determination to regain possession, they had the likes of Kagawa ,Sahin Mkhitaryan all innovative play makers and then Gundogan ,Bender and Kirch to add an authority to the middle,and Reus and Blaszczykowski as wingers their defense contained Subotic and Hummels and the beast we ourselves were interested in Papastathopoulos ,Ginter ,also young defenders like Durm coming through,upfront Lewandowski and Aubameyang.

I was an avid fan of the Bundesliga when Klopp was in charge of Dortmund and the team he constructed had few flaws ,especially defensively.

by **redshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:12 am

So couple of things Klopp has changed from his Dortmund days are ignoring a solid structure at the back and playing without a recognised striker.

by **Ghost of Shankly** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:35 am

He isn't tactically the best manager I have seen. His judgement on team selection and formation leave a lot to be desired. He does not play a holding midfielder in matches for example, and three in midfield (who cannot defend) against counter attacking teams which is suicidal. Also the defence personnel are not solid. That's some weak points I have noticed about him thus far..
Core principles or not, this is a results business and Klopp isn't beyond getting the boot if we don't achieve anything after having spent a ruck of money.
Brendan Rodgers wasted over 300m of LFC money on dross, that's why he got the boot.

by **ycsatbjywtbiastkamb** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:29 am

To be fair to Jurgen our defence has been shyte for the best part of a decade, he didn't create the problem he inherited it, this issue goes right back to the latter stages of Rafa's tenure when we had to sell to service the debt. It's easy to forget now but we were 2 days away from going under.
Roy couldn't solve our defensive woes, neither could Kenny, nor Brendan and up to now Jurgen hasn't solved them either, though by identifying Keita and Van Dijk as players he wants to bring in he seems to have targeted the right area's of the team.
It's frustrating as ***** to keep on blowing leads but we are making progress, after a terrible start we are only 6 points off second place (we were about 13 points off United at one stage) and we are as good as through to the knockout stages of the CL for the first time in a decade too.
Something that got lost in all the wailing and gnashing of teeth last Wednesday was that a very good team who are practically unbeatable on their own patch had to produce a miracle comeback including a last gasp injury time goal to scrape a draw with us. We went to one of the most intimidating stadiums in Europe and nearly ran up a cricket score.
We are not a million miles away from being a really good team, Jurgen is slowly turning us into something special imo.

by **redshade** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:16 pm

Like a poster stated we are 3-4 players away from being a very good formidable side. It's just a case of will we get the players or not.

Since we sold Alonso and Macha our DM problem has not been sorted by anyone since. If you want a solid structure you need good defenders with a solid DM protecting them and importantly a reliable goalkeeper.

Correct me if in wrong but i feel in the least decade as far as our core is concerned this is the weakest we've been. We've got a calamity keeper, clowns in defence and a donkey infront of them.

A lot of changes are needed.

by **johnbarnes** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:54 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:58 pm wrote:Klopp is German ,so does he manage this team with the methodical attention to detail we associate with a German ? Why is it that when we bring a manager in to instill the qualities their respective countries are renowned for they seem to bin them at the door before they set foot inside the club ? Is it just our club that has this effect on managers ? I mean Conti is Italian and Chelsea are almost frighteningly rigid and solid at the back,Guardiola is Spanish and his City team play fluent short intricate passing certainly not dissimilar to his Barcelona team ?

My question is this :As a club,are we insistent on the type of football the manager is expected to play,do we as the most ebullient of fans provide a kind of safety net for our managers with our at times unconditional love for this club almost to the extent a manager will abandon the core principles which has made his teams so effective ?

Once upon a time we won the Champions League in 2005.
The manager at that time was a proven expert in his field and one of the worlds brightest, youngest football managers.
The Kopite - slowly changed their expectations of this excellent manager. No longer was reaching Champion League finals good enough for 'our' club...
As we eagerly anticipated our first league title for near on 20 years.
---
In time, this humble person changed his philosophies in pursuit of the Holy Grail... The rest is his story.
The Kopite can be a dangerous and infectious individual, almost like a two headed monster.
So I guess my answer is - Who knows? - Klopp may well in time change his philosophy as he attempts to achieve the impossible dream...
As did Rafa Benitez!
---
Will it work. Time will tell...

by **only me** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:02 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:58 pm wrote:Klopp is German ,so does he manage this team with the methodical attention to detail we associate with a German ? Why is it that when we bring a manager in to instill the qualities their respective countries are renowned for they seem to bin them at the door before they set foot inside the club ? Is it just our club that has this effect on managers ? I mean Conti is Italian and Chelsea are almost frighteningly rigid and solid at the back,Guardiola is Spanish and his City team play fluent short intricate passing certainly not dissimilar to his Barcelona team ?

My question is this :As a club,are we insistent on the type of football the manager is expected to play,do we as the most ebullient of fans provide a kind of safety net for our managers with our at times unconditional love for this club almost to the extent a manager will abandon the core principles which has made his teams so effective ?

Klopp is playing the same style he instilled in BVB the problem is that the quality of players in his disposal, quality which he brought or kept isn't able to deliver the results...

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:11 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Klopp is German ,so does he manage this team with the methodical attention to detail we associate with a German ? Why is it that when we bring a manager in to instill the qualities their respective countries are renowned for they seem to bin them at the door before they set foot inside the club ? Is it just our club that has this effect on managers ? I mean Conti is Italian and Chelsea are almost frighteningly rigid and solid at the back,Guardiola is Spanish and his City team play fluent short intricate passing certainly not dissimilar to his Barcelona team ?

The football we play and at the pace we do is similar to what he played when at Dortmund but that's about it. He had built a much better side that was balanced and played to their strengths and it always involved a striker. It was never a front 3 of attacking mids like he seems insistent on here.
The traits you mention above are exactly why clubs hire those managers and back them with their players. I would add Maureen to that list as well as the first thing he does is solidify his teams defensively and then Drogba style up front. All these managers have different styles but one thing in common and that's them signing the players to play that way whereas Klopp either isn't bothered or thinks what he has is really that good.

My question is this :As a club,are we insistent on the type of football the manager is expected to play,do we as the most ebullient of fans provide a kind of safety net for our managers with our at times unconditional love for this club almost to the extent a manager will abandon the core principles which has made his teams so effective ?

I think the managers of this club under FSG are encouraged/ expected to play a more open attacking style . Rodgers spent a lot of money and the football was pretty much the same where we couldn't defend and began throwing away leads on a regular basis. We bought a lot of players with potential based on whatever by a committee that is still in operation so maybe they didn't think the players needed changing but rather introducing a manager who can get those players to the next level. Then we got Klopp and he has somewhat achieved that but its still the same issue that remains and that is certain players are just not good enough. Why he hasn't replaced them or still persists with the same captain is anyones guess. Imo he is here to manage what Fsg think they are building.

As fans we do want to see exciting football but accept it can't always be like that. Would we take Maureen knowing what style he would bring if it meant finally lifting that league ? Jurgen would have won much more stuff if he was more open to changing his tactics in crucial games. It can't always be flat to the mat every game unless you have the players to do it but we don't.
There is no safety net for managers here anymore as it could be 6 inside 10 years if Jurgen goes.
Things could and most likely would have been different if Klopp was given the full run of things like top managers get. I believe we would have signed more players and we would be a much better unit for it. We are in his 3rd season and while he has improved the players we still need to replace plenty. If Coutinho and Emre go then its pretty much a rebuild again.

by **Ghost of Shankly** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:04 pm

His "Heavy Metal" style of football is exciting, but also very risky. I don't think it resembles German style of play either.
This pressing that he encourages our team to do, we only normally do it in the first half of matches, and also, we don't neccessarily have the right players to execute this style either.
Only time will tell over the next season or two., whether this style of football is effective in the premier league.( IE: if we haven't won anything after four seasons of Klopp in charge then yes, we should panic.)
Defensively, we are very poor. At least when Rafa was in charge we had a solid backbone, plus the likes of Mascherano and Hamaan who could play the holding role. Klopp doesn't do that.

We are not going to win a league title unless we get a solid backbone. We have more chance of winning the Champions League, just because it's a cup competition and anything can happen! (Re: Istanbul 2005) :love:

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:28 pm

redshade » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:12 am wrote:So couple of things Klopp has changed from his Dortmund days are ignoring a solid structure at the back and playing without a recognised striker.

Basically yes,thus the question I posed : Do we insist on the team playing a certain way and encourage incoming managers to place more emphasis on possession football and the attack in general than building a team from the back with a solid defensive unit ? I mean one particular debate that's arose season after season,is would we accept grinding out the kind of results that would give us the league if it meant losing the full on attacking edge to our play that makes watching us so exciting

It seems madness suggesting this, but if we did win the league playing in this fashion would success shape a beginning or an end to a style that fans have become accustomed with ,its just no team will ever dominate by winning championships like we or United did, so success could be fleeting and bring about a veritable sea change in the style of football that brings us out in our droves to Anfield.

So in the grand scheme of things ,would you be willing to sacrifice that

by **johnbarnes** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:28 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:28 pm wrote:
redshade » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:12 am wrote:So couple of things Klopp has changed from his Dortmund days are ignoring a solid structure at the back and playing without a recognised striker.

Basically yes,thus the question I posed : Do we insist on the team playing a certain way and encourage incoming managers to place more emphasis on possession football and the attack in general than building a team from the back with a solid defensive unit ? I mean one particular debate that's arose season after season,is would we accept grinding out the kind of results that would give us the league if it meant losing the full on attacking edge to our play that makes watching us so exciting

It seems madness suggesting this, but if we did win the league playing in this fashion would success shape a beginning or an end to a style that fans have become accustomed with ,its just no team will ever dominate by winning championships like we or United did, so success could be fleeting and bring about a veritable sea change in the style of football that brings us out in our droves to Anfield.

So in the grand scheme of things ,would you be willing to sacrifice that

Both Houllier and Rafa built their teams around solid defences. But I don't recall their style of play boring to watch or unaccustomed to the expectations of the fans. Anfield was still filled to the rafters week in week out.
--
For me the real million dollar question would be...
Would we accept winning the title under Sam Allardyce along with his philosophical approach to football?
For me, the answer would be YES because all I want now after 26 years is for the REDS to be MIGHTY once again!
--
That said, would I swap Allardyce for Klopp in hope that this switch would work?
H£LL NO!
--
KLOPP IS OUR MAN and a man of OUR TIME! :buttrock

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:27 pm

johnbarnes » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:28 pm wrote:
Both Houllier and Rafa built their teams around solid defences. But I don't recall their style of play boring to watch or unaccustomed to the expectations of the fans. Anfield was still filled to the rafters week in week out.
--
For me the real million dollar question would be...
Would we accept winning the title under Sam Allardyce along with his philosophical approach to football?
For me, the answer would be YES because all I want now after 26 years is for the REDS to be MIGHTY once again!
--
That said, would I swap Allardyce for Klopp in hope that this switch would work?
H£LL NO!
--
KLOPP IS OUR MAN and a man of OUR TIME![/color]

Yet none of the above delivered a league title,so is it the balance between the two that's the problem, because both had prolific attacks,once again my question was if this team was to abandon those principles and opt for a purely defensive style based on not conceding and ground out diligent performances,would we as fans countenance such players being brought in, in order to achieve this win at all costs style that the impatience of some fans demand

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