Liverpool FC Forum

We were blessed !

They were all good enough to play in title winning sides but unfortunately weaknesses in other area's of the team tended to let us down.

We have an enviable history of producing our own strikers and improving lads brought in but in some ways the No 9 position is all but rubbed out, even Klopp wants his 3 most advanced players to work for the team first and score goals second.

Essentially we play with 3 No 10s, and I guess the discussion could go down the road of would Klopp play Fowler? An exceptional player in and around the box but hardly a guy busting a nut for the team.

In today's game Fowler would be expected to harness tactical awareness and be extremely flexible, sacrificing his natural instinct to be right here to over there, where the manager wants him, or not play at all.

This is the great dilemma for Sturridge, to play without instinct and just follow orders, not impossible but not easy.

Klopps tactics and methods must be the same here as they were in Dortmund.
Just wondering how did lewandowski fit into the system?

Any manager with half an ounce of nouse would build a team around anyone as gifted as Owen, Fowler,Torres etc... Sturridge isn't in that league so's a team player.  Klopp's rigid system reflects no one has the necessary flair.

parchpea » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:02 pm wrote:We have an enviable history of producing our own strikers and improving lads brought in but in some ways the No 9 position is all but rubbed out, even Klopp wants his 3 most advanced players to work for the team first and score goals second.

Essentially we play with 3 No 10s, and I guess the discussion could go down the road of would Klopp play Fowler? An exceptional player in and around the box but hardly a guy busting a nut for the team.

In today's game Fowler would be expected to harness tactical awareness and be extremely flexible, sacrificing his natural instinct to be right here to over there, where the manager wants him, or not play at all.

This is the great dilemma for Sturridge, to play without instinct and just follow orders, not impossible but not easy.

Good question that mate, you'd imagine that players like Ian Rush and Kevin Keegan would be ideal for Jurgen's system but as you say did Robbie work hard enough off the ball?

Reg » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:45 am wrote:Any manager with half an ounce of nouse would build a team around anyone as gifted as Owen, Fowler,Torres etc... Sturridge isn't in that league so's a team player.  Klopp's rigid system reflects no one has the necessary flair.

If he's fit Sturridge is easily in the same league as Fowler, Owen and Torres mate. But Suarez is in another league, he's quite easily in the best-top-4-players-in-the-world league.

Back to the topic in hand... we've been really spoilt with having very good strikers. There is always this notion that even if the rest of the team maybe so so, Liverpool's always had world class strikers. Fowler was once arguably the best striker in the league, even though he couldn't transfer that form to the international level. I say arguably because there was still Shearer. Owen was once definitely the best striker in the league. So was Torres. Suarez was the best PLAYER in the league. Sturridge has his injury crisis, but if he's on form, he is also considered one of the best strikers in the league. Probably the period where we had had sub-par strikers is during the period when Owen left and before Torres arrived. We had Baros and Cisse. Cisse shone occassionally but Baros was really sub-par. Those were for me, one of the more depressing times in terms of us having fire power up front. Gerrard was at his peak but we couldn't compliment him with good strikers up front until Torres arrived. That's why personally for me I felt Torres leaving more than any other striker we had. He was really made for this club and his partnership with Gerrard was phenomenal. He didn't score that many goals before Liverpool and he didn't score that many goals after.

In terms of incorporating Sturridge in the front line, I still think that if we have a front 3 of Firmino, Sturridge and Mane, with Sturridge leading the line, and Coutinho pulling the strings just behind, we'd have a devastating firepower. Problem is, Klopp doesn't want to play to Sturridge's strengths, or give him any amount of freedom. And Sturridge is currently not on form because he'd lost his confidence...

            Coutinho
Mane                      Firmino
            Sturridge

Watching Fowler's finishing is like a work of art. He seems to just poke the ball perfectly in the right spot everytime.

Fowler was incredible. Natural born finisher.

https://youtu.be/GpbA7KO-Ejo

No 7/2/1 just brilliant.

My favourite Liverpool striker of all time.

maguskwt » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:15 pm wrote:

Reg » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:45 am wrote:Any manager with half an ounce of nouse would build a team around anyone as gifted as Owen, Fowler,Torres etc... Sturridge isn't in that league so's a team player.  Klopp's rigid system reflects no one has the necessary flair.

If he's fit Sturridge is easily in the same league as Fowler, Owen and Torres mate. But Suarez is in another league, he's quite easily in the best-top-4-players-in-the-world league.

What good's a fancy car of it's always broken down? 

Its interesting reading other fans input especially their opinions on some of our brilliant strikers, but on the subject of Fowler not being a worker I think were forgetting just how many of his injuries were the result of pressing the play, I mean three of Robbie's more significant injuries were the result of collisions with keepers and the rest endured through tackles.   

Its not up for debate that Robbie scored some magical goals, but he also worked hard ! In fact I'd say that in that respect he has more in common with Suarez than people give him credit for and he certainly wasn't the worst culprit for lack of work rate, Owen and Sturridge easily take that mantle as both are not renowned for closing down the play.

I also think the manager is right in omitting Sturridge, he's been proffered enough opportunities to look even 'half interested' in fighting for his place and he hasn't grasped those chances with the appetite the manager demands, I'm convinced Sturridge is an intelligent  enough player to adapt his game to fit into this team, but the most pertinent question is why is a striker of his calibre content to sit on the bench rather than prove a point to the manager and the fans 

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:41 pm wrote:Its interesting reading other fans input especially their opinions on some of our brilliant strikers, but on the subject of Fowler not being a worker I think were forgetting just how many of his injuries were the result of pressing the play, I mean three of Robbie's more significant injuries were the result of collisions with keepers and the rest endured through tackles.   

Its not up for debate that Robbie scored some magical goals, but he also worked hard ! In fact I'd say that in that respect he has more in common with Suarez than people give him credit for and he certainly wasn't the worst culprit for lack of work rate, Owen and Sturridge easily take that mantle as both are not renowned for closing down the play.

I also think the manager is right in omitting Sturridge, he's been proffered enough opportunities to look even 'half interested' in fighting for his place and he hasn't grasped those chances with the appetite the manager demands, I'm convinced Sturridge is an intelligent  enough player to adapt his game to fit into this team, but the most pertinent question is why is a striker of his calibre content to sit on the bench rather than prove a point to the manager and the fans 

I have read at least a couple of times in the media where he said he wanted to leave. I believe it is Klopp who is asking him to stay. I don't buy the why can't the player adapt his game to fit into the team's argument. It is the manager who needs to use the players to their strengths. I think very few people will disagree that Rooney is one of the most versatile players in the league. Even him, when he was asked to lead the line up front or play in midfield, suck balls. He is a no. 10 not a no. 9. Worse, he is not a midfielder either.

Regarding Owen. Owen's game was not about pressing. Houllier's strategy was not about pressing. Houllier's teams had very good Defense and a solid midfield/ spine. Owen was always waiting on defender's shoulders and with a trough pass from the midfield, Owen would spring the offsite trap and nobody would be able to catch him. What's more he is the coolest finisher I have ever seen. There were games where he would be quiet for almost the whole game and the match looked like it would end in 0-0, but once he's got the chance, he would score and we would win the game. With Owen in the team, there was always a chance to win the game. That was what he brought.

I could say in reverse that today's Klopp team doesn't have anyone with the ability of Owen, the play on the defenders' shoulders, to penetrate the defense how Owen was tactically aware. It is just pressing pressing pressing at the two three rows of parked buses and not getting anywhere. There are no holding play in the midfield and through passes to off-the-ball running forwards. It is just wave after wave of water against a fortified concrete wall. That's how we lost ALOT of points during the Christmas and NY period...

Too bad Owen's Liverpool legacy was diminished in the eyes of most fans by his move to Real and his subsequent move to the Mancs and by him saying in the media "Sir Alex said this... Sir Alex said that" blah blah blah. In reality he was one of the best strikers we have had and if he would have stayed on, would have become a Liverpool legend as great as Gerrard.

maguskwt » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:57 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:41 pm wrote:Its interesting reading other fans input especially their opinions on some of our brilliant strikers, but on the subject of Fowler not being a worker I think were forgetting just how many of his injuries were the result of pressing the play, I mean three of Robbie's more significant injuries were the result of collisions with keepers and the rest endured through tackles.   

Its not up for debate that Robbie scored some magical goals, but he also worked hard ! In fact I'd say that in that respect he has more in common with Suarez than people give him credit for and he certainly wasn't the worst culprit for lack of work rate, Owen and Sturridge easily take that mantle as both are not renowned for closing down the play.

I also think the manager is right in omitting Sturridge, he's been proffered enough opportunities to look even 'half interested' in fighting for his place and he hasn't grasped those chances with the appetite the manager demands, I'm convinced Sturridge is an intelligent  enough player to adapt his game to fit into this team, but the most pertinent question is why is a striker of his calibre content to sit on the bench rather than prove a point to the manager and the fans 

I have read at least a couple of times in the media where he said he wanted to leave. I believe it is Klopp who is asking him to stay. I don't buy the why can't the player adapt his game to fit into the team's argument. It is the manager who needs to use the players to their strengths. I think very few people will disagree that Rooney is one of the most versatile players in the league. Even him, when he was asked to lead the line up front or play in midfield, suck balls. He is a no. 10 not a no. 9. Worse, he is not a midfielder either.

Regarding Owen. Owen's game was not about pressing. Houllier's strategy was not about pressing. Houllier's teams had very good Defense and a solid midfield/ spine. Owen was always waiting on defender's shoulders and with a trough pass from the midfield, Owen would spring the offsite trap and nobody would be able to catch him. What's more he is the coolest finisher I have ever seen. There were games where he would be quiet for almost the whole game and the match looked like it would end in 0-0, but once he's got the chance, he would score and we would win the game. With Owen in the team, there was always a chance to win the game. That was what he brought.

I could say in reverse that today's Klopp team doesn't have anyone with the ability of Owen, the play on the defenders' shoulders, to penetrate the defense how Owen was tactically aware. It is just pressing pressing pressing at the two three rows of parked buses and not getting anywhere. There are no holding play in the midfield and through passes to off the ball running forwards. It is just wave after wave of water against a concrete wall. That's how we lost alot of points during the Christmas and NY period...

I disagree Mags we lost a lot of points because the pressing (that had brought us more than a fair amount of success last year ) rather mysteriously dissipated. As for Owen I'm not arguing the fact he was a very effective player, I'm trying to establish' he' rather than Fowler would be less likely to figure in Klopps set up. I know what everyone of those  players  brought to our game and how different managers utilised their strengths, but like you said Houllier's Liverpool team was significantly more rigid from a defensive aspect, Klopps is currently  not and is heavily reliant on players showing the hunger to win the ball and then retain it with quick incisive passing to alleviate the pressure on our more porous defence.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:22 pm wrote:

maguskwt » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:57 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:41 pm wrote:Its interesting reading other fans input especially their opinions on some of our brilliant strikers, but on the subject of Fowler not being a worker I think were forgetting just how many of his injuries were the result of pressing the play, I mean three of Robbie's more significant injuries were the result of collisions with keepers and the rest endured through tackles.   

Its not up for debate that Robbie scored some magical goals, but he also worked hard ! In fact I'd say that in that respect he has more in common with Suarez than people give him credit for and he certainly wasn't the worst culprit for lack of work rate, Owen and Sturridge easily take that mantle as both are not renowned for closing down the play.

I also think the manager is right in omitting Sturridge, he's been proffered enough opportunities to look even 'half interested' in fighting for his place and he hasn't grasped those chances with the appetite the manager demands, I'm convinced Sturridge is an intelligent  enough player to adapt his game to fit into this team, but the most pertinent question is why is a striker of his calibre content to sit on the bench rather than prove a point to the manager and the fans 

I have read at least a couple of times in the media where he said he wanted to leave. I believe it is Klopp who is asking him to stay. I don't buy the why can't the player adapt his game to fit into the team's argument. It is the manager who needs to use the players to their strengths. I think very few people will disagree that Rooney is one of the most versatile players in the league. Even him, when he was asked to lead the line up front or play in midfield, suck balls. He is a no. 10 not a no. 9. Worse, he is not a midfielder either.

Regarding Owen. Owen's game was not about pressing. Houllier's strategy was not about pressing. Houllier's teams had very good Defense and a solid midfield/ spine. Owen was always waiting on defender's shoulders and with a trough pass from the midfield, Owen would spring the offsite trap and nobody would be able to catch him. What's more he is the coolest finisher I have ever seen. There were games where he would be quiet for almost the whole game and the match looked like it would end in 0-0, but once he's got the chance, he would score and we would win the game. With Owen in the team, there was always a chance to win the game. That was what he brought.

I could say in reverse that today's Klopp team doesn't have anyone with the ability of Owen, the play on the defenders' shoulders, to penetrate the defense how Owen was tactically aware. It is just pressing pressing pressing at the two three rows of parked buses and not getting anywhere. There are no holding play in the midfield and through passes to off the ball running forwards. It is just wave after wave of water against a concrete wall. That's how we lost alot of points during the Christmas and NY period...

I disagree Mags we lost a lot of points because the pressing (that had brought us more than a fair amount of success last year ) rather mysteriously dissipated. As for Owen I'm not arguing the fact he was a very effective player, I'm trying to establish' he' rather than Fowler would be less likely to figure in Klopps set up. I know what everyone of those  players  brought to our game and how different managers utilised their strengths, but like you said Houllier's Liverpool team was significantly more rigid from a defensive aspect, Klopps is currently  not and is heavily reliant on players showing the hunger to win the ball and then retain it with quick incisive passing to alleviate the pressure on our more porous defence.

I mean this thread was about how blessed we have been for strikers in the prem, not about the Klopps system and its apparent failings, but just for the sake of the argument does anyone believe if Klopp procured a striker with the talent and more importantly work rate of Suarez or Torres he wouldn't adjust the play to accommodate such a talent     Klopp is yet to buy a striker so whose to say in the next few years we wont have another compilation thrown up on this thread to join this illustrious collative

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:35 pm wrote:
I disagree Mags we lost a lot of points because the pressing (that had brought us more than a fair amount of success last year ) rather mysteriously dissipated. As for Owen I'm not arguing the fact he was a very effective player, I'm trying to establish' he' rather than Fowler would be less likely to figure in Klopps set up. I know what everyone of those  players  brought to our game and how different managers utilised their strengths, but like you said Houllier's Liverpool team was significantly more rigid from a defensive aspect, Klopps is currently  not and is heavily reliant on players showing the hunger to win the ball and then retain it with quick incisive passing to alleviate the pressure on our more porous defence.

I mean this thread was about how blessed we have been for strikers in the prem, not about the Klopps system and its apparent failings, but just for the sake of the argument does anyone believe if Klopp procured a striker with the talent and more importantly work rate of Suarez or Torres he wouldn't adjust the play to accommodate such a talent     Klopp is yet to buy a striker so whose to say in the next few years we wont have another compilation thrown up on this thread to join this illustrious collative

I think that Klopp would welcome with open arms a player like Suarez. He would be a perfect fit for Klopp's system. But nowadays, the way we're conducting our transfers, if we land a player of Suarez' talent level, it'll be like striking lottery, or being hit by lightning. I don't think we will ever see us buy an out-and-out striker like Torres. These modern german coaches (I'm including Joachim Lowe here) seem to be obsessed with playing false 9's. Thomal Mueller was the False 9 in the german team and we have Firmino...