Liverpool FC Forum

As I said I wouldn't change it myself but if people are concerned about southamptons midfield giving us the run around then swapping Gerrard for someone more mobile like Allen would be the option I'd choose certainly before I'd break up the Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho axis anyway.
Gerrard has played well recently but he does have a tendency to drop a bit too far back and almost join the back line so maybe someone terrier-like like Allen who would stay in the middle and harry and chase alongside Hendo might be a good option for this one game.
Personally though I'd keep it the same, if all our players work hard we have more than enough to beat them.

Ben Patrick » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:58 pm wrote:Who to take out is a tough one. Probably coutinho. But thats not to say this is every week. I dont think we should think because the system we played worked great against arsenal and Everton that it will every match. There is no getting around the fact that we played some of the best football we have seen in those two games. But we did away at spurs with the 3 man midfield. My point is in games where the intensity isnt quite there then we can be totally overrun. Swansea dominated the game at anfield and on another day we would have dropped points again like villa. We have shown we can play with the four of them in the side but they need to do things that arent necessarily in their make up. Against the sides we expect to beat I dont think you get the same work rate without the ball as we do in the bigger games.

I agree with this.

damjan193 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:58 pm wrote:Who to take out is a tough one. Probably coutinho. But thats not to say this is every week. I dont think we should think because the system we played worked great against arsenal and Everton that it will every match. There is no getting around the fact that we played some of the best football we have seen in those two games. But we did away at spurs with the 3 man midfield. My point is in games where the intensity isnt quite there then we can be totally overrun. Swansea dominated the game at anfield and on another day we would have dropped points again like villa. We have shown we can play with the four of them in the side but they need to do things that arent necessarily in their make up. Against the sides we expect to beat I dont think you get the same work rate without the ball as we do in the bigger games.

I agree with this.

But why weaken our 1 strong point?
I look at it like this, in Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge and Sterling we have an attack as good if not better than anything in this country and maybe even Europe, even with all 4 in the side that still leaves 7 players out of a team of 11 to win the ball back and keep teams out the other end. There is something seriously lacking in our defence and midfield if one of our forwards has to drop out and that 7 has to be increased to 8.
In my opinion those 4 should start every week and Rodgers job should be to try and find players good enough to do the job behind them.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:57 am wrote:

damjan193 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:58 pm wrote:Who to take out is a tough one. Probably coutinho. But thats not to say this is every week. I dont think we should think because the system we played worked great against arsenal and Everton that it will every match. There is no getting around the fact that we played some of the best football we have seen in those two games. But we did away at spurs with the 3 man midfield. My point is in games where the intensity isnt quite there then we can be totally overrun. Swansea dominated the game at anfield and on another day we would have dropped points again like villa. We have shown we can play with the four of them in the side but they need to do things that arent necessarily in their make up. Against the sides we expect to beat I dont think you get the same work rate without the ball as we do in the bigger games.

I agree with this.

But why weaken our 1 strong point?
I look at it like this, in Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge and Sterling we have an attack as good if not better than anything in this country and maybe even Europe, even with all 4 in the side that still leaves 7 players out of a team of 11 to win the ball back and keep teams out the other end. There is something seriously lacking in our defence and midfield if one of our forwards has to drop out and that 7 has to be increased to 8.
In my opinion those 4 should start every week and Rodgers job should be to try and find players good enough to do the job behind them.

Not saying that we should sacrifice an attacker in every game we play (and neither did Ben I believe), but sometimes it might be best for the team if we had the right balance rather than concentrate entirely on firepower. Away games against the likes of Southampton should be one of those games.

IMO, the attack will be as lethal and unstoppable anyway. A trio of Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling could still do enough damage even without Coutinho. Our obvious problem is coping with high pressure that a team like Southampton will surely apply on us, and if we can't deal with that and control the game, we'll be hoping on our attack to outscore the opposition again, which is equal to playing Russian roulette. I think that with an extra man in midfield, we'll probably be able to cope better with the pressure and bring the ball out of our defense a lot more easier. If we can do that, we'll control the game. Scoring, IMO, won't be a problem, even without one of the attackers. 

We didn't manage to control the game in neither the Swansea game nor the Fulham game. We depended completely on our attack. Sure, we won those games, but you can't disagree that on another game we would have dropped a few points. We're playing a risky game if we're hoping on our attack to bail us out week in week out. It simply won't work forever.

Damjan - I think you said something similar before the Everton and Arsenal games?

As I said if people are concerned about our ability to compete with southamptons midfield then drop gerrard for one game, he does tend to drop off a bit too much and play almost as an extra CB at times, Allen and Hendo in the middle would give us lots of energy and mobility and they'd do their work at the coal seam right in the middle of the park not at the edge of our area.
those 4 forwards are our strength and there's 7 other players in that team to do the bread and butter things, if we need more than 7 players against a side like Southampton (we are not talking Bayern or Barca here) to gain a foothold in the game then quite frankly Rodgers needs to replace those 7 players, not the 4 ahead of them.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Swansea and Fulham games, from the start of the season we've often been outplayed by teams and by average teams as well, it was backs to the wall second half at Villa, take a look at some of the early game threads, there have been concerns about our ability to control games from August but somehow our forwards have just seemed to get the job done. When we've needed a big performance more often than not the players have conjured up a huge one from somewhere
We've done well so far, let the dice roll I say, leave things as they are.

I hope to god Yakka that BR has got them so wound up that they are treating every game like a CL final. You can't afford to take anything for granted in the Premiership as Norwich proved against Spurs and Man City.

devaney » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:57 pm wrote:OnlyMe - Gerrard is number 8 if that helps 

Miles off what is required. I don't know what you've been watching for the past few games. That is what's shocking 

What is this balance malarchy all about? Did you see Gerrard's brilliant through ball to Sturridge recently? It's being talked about as the pass of the season. That's what fans go to see not somebody that generally passes the ball five yards backwards or sideways which Allen has perfected and it is the key reason why he has a phenomenal pass completion percentage. Gerrard and Coutinho are game changers. Henderson is becoming more important to the team by the week. Currently I don't think that there are starting places for either Lucas or Allen. A couple of decent fullbacks would go a very long way towards giving the team the required extra quality in defence that I believe is the area that desperately needs an upgrade. Flanno has done ok but I'm not sure that he is anywhere near CL level.

Did you see the FAT BIG HOLE between our CB's and our Attack? this big hole is Gerrard's and Hendo's assignment ,Yes Gerrard would give you that brilliant pass once every five games but he would have difficulties filling that big juicy gap which is over-run by our opponents day-in day-out.

wasn't only me who saw the FAT BIG HOLE.... desperately missing Lucas and the confidence he brings to the defenders behind him....Gerrard is a fish out of water and sunday was another glaring example...I'm sure the tv pundits failed to notice

only me » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:26 pm wrote:

devaney » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:57 pm wrote:OnlyMe - Gerrard is number 8 if that helps 

Miles off what is required. I don't know what you've been watching for the past few games. That is what's shocking 

What is this balance malarchy all about? Did you see Gerrard's brilliant through ball to Sturridge recently? It's being talked about as the pass of the season. That's what fans go to see not somebody that generally passes the ball five yards backwards or sideways which Allen has perfected and it is the key reason why he has a phenomenal pass completion percentage. Gerrard and Coutinho are game changers. Henderson is becoming more important to the team by the week. Currently I don't think that there are starting places for either Lucas or Allen. A couple of decent fullbacks would go a very long way towards giving the team the required extra quality in defence that I believe is the area that desperately needs an upgrade. Flanno has done ok but I'm not sure that he is anywhere near CL level.

Did you see the FAT BIG HOLE between our CB's and our Attack? this big hole is Gerrard's and Hendo's assignment ,Yes Gerrard would give you that brilliant pass once every five games but he would have difficulties filling that big juicy gap which is over-run by our opponents day-in day-out.

As I said mate I haven't got a clue what you are watching. Once every 5 games ??????????????    

supersub » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:53 pm wrote:wasn't only me who saw the FAT BIG HOLE.... desperately missing Lucas and the confidence he brings to the defenders behind him....Gerrard is a fish out of water and sunday was another glaring example...I'm sure the tv pundits failed to notice

I think what posters seem to be missing in their interpretations of Gerrard's new role, is he's been placed there as added protection for our back four
hence the title 'deep lying midfielder',which effectively sees the position holder breaking up most of the opponents attacking play before it develops

So in truth if the performance against Swansea where De Guzman couldn't believe the space he was being afforded ,and must have been quietly chuckling
at the ease he was bringing Shelvey and Bony into play ,doesn't set the alarm bells ringing to a certain degree then I'm at a loss to explain mate.

supersub » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:53 pm wrote:wasn't only me who saw the FAT BIG HOLE.... desperately missing Lucas and the confidence he brings to the defenders behind him....Gerrard is a fish out of water and sunday was another glaring example...I'm sure the tv pundits failed to notice

the " FAT BIG HOLE" will still be there regardless of who he plays in that role and besides its only when we get caught out up the field that it opens and exposes us.
your full backs sit on the half way line and its the  CB's who have to come across to cover with the DM falling back into the hole. that opens up the large gap that can be easily exploited. when the oppo has the ball we are a much tighter unit.
with lucas i think for most on here its a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder because those gaps still appear when he plays

RED BEERGOGGLES » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm wrote:

supersub » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:53 pm wrote:wasn't only me who saw the FAT BIG HOLE.... desperately missing Lucas and the confidence he brings to the defenders behind him....Gerrard is a fish out of water and sunday was another glaring example...I'm sure the tv pundits failed to notice

I think what posters seem to be missing in their interpretations of Gerrard's new role, is he's been placed there as added protection for our back four
hence the title 'deep lying midfielder',which effectively sees the position holder breaking up most of the opponents attacking play before it develops

So in truth if the performance against Swansea where De Guzman couldn't believe the space he was being afforded ,and must have been quietly chuckling
at the ease he was bringing Shelvey and Bony into play ,doesn't set the alarm bells ringing to a certain degree then I'm at a loss to explain mate.

This is not true. Gerrard isn't played as a deep lying midfielder to offer protection to the back four, he's there to dictate the tempo of the game, bring the ball out of defense, and play the occasional through pass or long ball.

A very good example for this role, like many have already mentioned, is Pirlo at Juventus. He sits in between their back three and the midfield but he's not there to be a ball winner. The box to box players, Vidal and Pogba, that are slightly in front of him are the ones with the defensive midfield duties. Unfortunately, we don't have players such as Vidal and Pogba (Henderson by himself isn't enough), so often we see the pivot Gerrard thing not working because he doesn't have enough cover.

I think that Gerrard has done well so far in his new role, considering the lack of help that he has. The introduction of Allen in place of one of the attacking 4 might balance things out (as I said in previous posts).

Gerrard's recent contribution in his new role has been substantial and his understanding of what is expected from him is also improving. The last minute penalty against Fulham was just one example of why he is so important to this team. The defensive problems are simply due to lack of quality in our back four and very little to do with Gerrard who we constantly expect too much from. Joe Allen has done very little as far as I am concerned to suggest that he should start in place of anybody at the present time. The same applies to Lucas unless he is capable of playing in the back four which I don't think he is.

Swansea couldn't have cut through our midfield any easier if they'd deployed water cannons  ,we scrape out wins against Stoke ,Fulham and now Swansea
we concede a shed load of goals ,and suddenly we're gifting the opposing team the opportunity to hurt us by proffering  ridiculous amounts of possession ,and
that's progress    .....Someone should give Roy Evans a bell ,I'm pretty sure he had the same philosophy.  



If we go into the game at Southampton with the same tactics ,Pochettino's charges will murder us ,because unlike the three teams I have mentioned
above ,Southampton have players adept at finding the net under their own volition without giving them a helping hand by affording them ridiculous
amounts of possession.

Pochettino has proved his planning for a match is close to methodical ,with a sometimes German efficiency..... I just hope Rodgers  acumen proves
more effective and he has a better game plan than just relying heavily on our strikers.