Liverpool FC Forum

No, I think Woof's right: Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. The Mccann's haven't been found guilty of anything and neither is there anything like sufficient evidence to justify the accusations that they were involved in the disappearance of Madeleine -- accusations which are based on little more than a combination of unfounded suspicion, prejudice and amateur Freudery. You can't convict people on a hunch.

But there are guilty are certain things IMO They left their child alone whilst they went out for food - that IMO is clear neglect.

I still struggle to understand why they haven't been charged.

Benny The Noon » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:00 pm wrote:But there are guilty are certain things IMO They left their child alone whilst they went out for food - that IMO is clear neglect.

I still struggle to understand why they haven't been charged.

Probably because their actions didn't meet the threshold necessary to proceed with a prosecution. If they had simply abandoned their children without a second thought then I think it would be a clear case of neglect but they left them in an apartment overlooked by a restaurant at which were dining and checked in at regular intervals as well.

Bear in mind that this was not an area with a high crime rate and that the chances of a child going missing in such circumstances is very, very small, and I think you have difficulty proving that they were obviously guilty of neglect. Perhaps you are suggesting it should always be a crime to leave children of a certain age out of sight or sound for any amount of time, whatever the circumstances? Certainly raises an interesting set of implications for parents if you do.

A local lady here left her child alone for an hour whilst she was asleep and went next door to see a neighbour - someone reported her to the police and she was arrested and charged with neglect and social services investigated her even to the point her 14 year old other son was taken into care for 2 months.

My OH works for the social services in child care - she is in absolutely no doubt that what the McCanns did was neglect especially when little Maddie was ill. She is always adament that if it was a couple from a council estate then they would have been investigated at the very least.

For over an hour no one checked on Maddie - they did it every night. Maddies was the oldest.

I agree with LFC2007 on this one. As far as I know (from skimming through the details), the McCann's or their friends checked on their kids at least every half an hour (probably even more often than that). Someone asked why Maddy's younger siblings weren't taken and this is why IMO. The kidnapper just didn't have enough time and might have even been in the apartment when one of McCann's friends checked on the kids. The kidnapper just took whatever child was the closest and ran away. It is weird though, I'd expect a 3 year old to scream even if her parents woke her up, never mind a stranger.

As for neglect by the parents, I think it's going a bit too far. They put the kids to bed, they go for dinner right across the street and check on their kids every 10 minutes, in a place that isn't known as a dangerous place (far from it). A lot of parents do this (mine did). I mean, you can't expect them to go to bed with the kids at 7 pm. It would have been different if the parents went partying and came back at 5 am but it wasn't the case.

Calling the cops for a mother that went to the neighbors next door and left her kid home alone sleeping is also going too far.

woof woof ! » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:23 pm wrote:I'm wondering how many of the people in here that question the McCann's possible involvement have children of their own ?

For f'ucks sake if you are a parent you can imagine the pain the McCann's must be going through when they see some of the stuff that's aimed at them.

A Fu*king football site and people imo obviously without children of their own suggesting the parents may have been complicit in their child's disappearance.

Makes me f'ucking sick 

Woof I openly admit to not having any kids, that I know of at least...

But the point still stands. There are plenty of cases all through history of parents cruelty to their own children. Some batter them to death for ***** sake. It can and does happen so to rule it out on that sole basis is completely naive.

Its obviously not normal behaviour, but as someone said in an earlier post, how can anyone answer "no comment" to any question in a case to find your missing child?

I'd go as far as to say that most decent and normal parents also wouldn't lock their kids in a strange house while they go on the lash.

damjan193 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:13 pm wrote:I agree with LFC2007 on this one. As far as I know (from skimming through the details), the McCann's or their friends checked on their kids at least every half an hour (probably even more often than that). Someone asked why Maddy's younger siblings weren't taken and this is why IMO. The kidnapper just didn't have enough time and might have even been in the apartment when one of McCann's friends checked on the kids. The kidnapper just took whatever child was the closest and ran away. It is weird though, I'd expect a 3 year old to scream even if her parents woke her up, never mind a stranger.

As for neglect by the parents, I think it's going a bit too far. They put the kids to bed, they go for dinner right across the street and check on their kids every 10 minutes, in a place that isn't known as a dangerous place (far from it). A lot of parents do this (mine did). I mean, you can't expect them to go to bed with the kids at 7 pm. It would have been different if the parents went partying and came back at 5 am but it wasn't the case.

Calling the cops for a mother that went to the neighbors next door and left her kid home alone sleeping is also going too far.

Sorry but if I had kids I certainly wouldn't leave them unattended while I went drinking alcohol and out for a meal.

Make no mistake about it either, you can mask it up anyway you like. But the fact is that is exactly what happened. They left their children, unattended, in a place they weren't overly familiar with, in a place where they don't know anyone outside their group.

That to me is absolute neglect and irresponsible parenting and I can't quite believe that people thought this was acceptable before this incident and to be quite honest, I'm struggling to think since this how people can justify any sort of "defence" for this behaviour.

Problem with Britain (and many other countries) it's public trial via media.

StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:09 am wrote:

damjan193 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:13 pm wrote:I agree with LFC2007 on this one. As far as I know (from skimming through the details), the McCann's or their friends checked on their kids at least every half an hour (probably even more often than that). Someone asked why Maddy's younger siblings weren't taken and this is why IMO. The kidnapper just didn't have enough time and might have even been in the apartment when one of McCann's friends checked on the kids. The kidnapper just took whatever child was the closest and ran away. It is weird though, I'd expect a 3 year old to scream even if her parents woke her up, never mind a stranger.

As for neglect by the parents, I think it's going a bit too far. They put the kids to bed, they go for dinner right across the street and check on their kids every 10 minutes, in a place that isn't known as a dangerous place (far from it). A lot of parents do this (mine did). I mean, you can't expect them to go to bed with the kids at 7 pm. It would have been different if the parents went partying and came back at 5 am but it wasn't the case.

Calling the cops for a mother that went to the neighbors next door and left her kid home alone sleeping is also going too far.

Sorry but if I had kids I certainly wouldn't leave them unattended while I went drinking alcohol and out for a meal.

Make no mistake about it either, you can mask it up anyway you like. But the fact is that is exactly what happened. They left their children, unattended, in a place they weren't overly familiar with, in a place where they don't know anyone outside their group.

That to me is absolute neglect and irresponsible parenting and I can't quite believe that people thought this was acceptable before this incident and to be quite honest, I'm struggling to think since this how people can justify any sort of "defence" for this behaviour.

Still think that it's a bit of an overreaction. Being raised in a third world country might have an effect on me having a different point of view, but the parents were right there, checking on their kids every 10 minutes. Checking on your kids every 10 minutes despite being some 50 yards away from them has a much larger effect in terms of safety than, say, sleeping in the room next door. No one would have said that the parents are irresponsible if it happened while they were all asleep.

I do sympathize with the parents.  The guilt they must feel for their selfish wanting to have a night of drinking and dinner with some friends while on vacation cost them a child.  Whether they had anything to do with the vanishing of their daughter or not, it was a direct result of their actions. 

As a father of three, I understand the want to occasionally have some time with my wife alone, even if it is outside of the bedroom.  But under no circumstances should that ever take priority over the welfare of our children.  My kids are 13,11, and ,8.  Just now are we getting comfortable with letting the kids stay home by themselves (asleep or awake) while we simply hang out with our neighbors across the street.  We live in a quiet neighborhood.  Would have never even thought it an option to "Check on them every half hour" when they were so young.

Parenting brings on responsibilities.  The McCann's failed.  Not matter what happened, one of them should have been there at all times with their children.

damjan193 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:03 am wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:09 am wrote:

damjan193 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:13 pm wrote:I agree with LFC2007 on this one. As far as I know (from skimming through the details), the McCann's or their friends checked on their kids at least every half an hour (probably even more often than that). Someone asked why Maddy's younger siblings weren't taken and this is why IMO. The kidnapper just didn't have enough time and might have even been in the apartment when one of McCann's friends checked on the kids. The kidnapper just took whatever child was the closest and ran away. It is weird though, I'd expect a 3 year old to scream even if her parents woke her up, never mind a stranger.

As for neglect by the parents, I think it's going a bit too far. They put the kids to bed, they go for dinner right across the street and check on their kids every 10 minutes, in a place that isn't known as a dangerous place (far from it). A lot of parents do this (mine did). I mean, you can't expect them to go to bed with the kids at 7 pm. It would have been different if the parents went partying and came back at 5 am but it wasn't the case.

Calling the cops for a mother that went to the neighbors next door and left her kid home alone sleeping is also going too far.

Sorry but if I had kids I certainly wouldn't leave them unattended while I went drinking alcohol and out for a meal.

Make no mistake about it either, you can mask it up anyway you like. But the fact is that is exactly what happened. They left their children, unattended, in a place they weren't overly familiar with, in a place where they don't know anyone outside their group.

That to me is absolute neglect and irresponsible parenting and I can't quite believe that people thought this was acceptable before this incident and to be quite honest, I'm struggling to think since this how people can justify any sort of "defence" for this behaviour.

Still think that it's a bit of an overreaction. Being raised in a third world country might have an effect on me having a different point of view, but the parents were right there, checking on their kids every 10 minutes. Checking on your kids every 10 minutes despite being some 50 yards away from them has a much larger effect in terms of safety than, say, sleeping in the room next door. No one would have said that the parents are irresponsible if it happened while they were all asleep.

No, you're totally correct they wouldn't and with damn good reason.

Sleeping is a completely different story. Leaving young defenceless kids who were that small they couldn't even open a door in case of emergency unattended in to they extent they have done is shocking quite frankly as far as I'm concerned is criminal. I'm at a loss to understand how you can defend this. Had the children been 9 or 10 years old then even though I wouldn't agree with your point, I could certainly see your point of view and wouldn't be as aggressive in a defence.

Had they been having a quiet meal outside on the same premesis then there is justification, but to be any further away than that is completely crazy, irresponsible and extremely neglectful. These are babies effectively we're talking about. I find your attitude towards it quite offensive to be honest and it makes me hope that you wouldn't put your children in the same situation.

If they are innocent on the murder/manslaughter/or anything else on the conspiracy front then I have very little sympathy for their emotions during all of this and quite simply believe they made their own bed with their disgusting actions.

The Good Yank » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:01 am wrote:I do sympathize with the parents.  The guilt they must feel for their selfish wanting to have a night of drinking and dinner with some friends while on vacation cost them a child.  Whether they had anything to do with the vanishing of their daughter or not, it was a direct result of their actions. 

As a father of three, I understand the want to occasionally have some time with my wife alone, even if it is outside of the bedroom.  But under no circumstances should that ever take priority over the welfare of our children.  My kids are 13,11, and ,8.  Just now are we getting comfortable with letting the kids stay home by themselves (asleep or awake) while we simply hang out with our neighbors across the street.  We live in a quiet neighborhood.  Would have never even thought it an option to "Check on them every half hour" when they were so young.

Parenting brings on responsibilities.  The McCann's failed.  Not matter what happened, one of them should have been there at all times with their children.

Absolute f*cking spot on. The only part I don't feel is sympathy for the parents. For the child yes, for the parents to be that neglectful?

Reap what you sow for me.

damjan193 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:03 am wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:09 am wrote:

damjan193 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:13 pm wrote:I agree with LFC2007 on this one. As far as I know (from skimming through the details), the McCann's or their friends checked on their kids at least every half an hour (probably even more often than that). Someone asked why Maddy's younger siblings weren't taken and this is why IMO. The kidnapper just didn't have enough time and might have even been in the apartment when one of McCann's friends checked on the kids. The kidnapper just took whatever child was the closest and ran away. It is weird though, I'd expect a 3 year old to scream even if her parents woke her up, never mind a stranger.

As for neglect by the parents, I think it's going a bit too far. They put the kids to bed, they go for dinner right across the street and check on their kids every 10 minutes, in a place that isn't known as a dangerous place (far from it). A lot of parents do this (mine did). I mean, you can't expect them to go to bed with the kids at 7 pm. It would have been different if the parents went partying and came back at 5 am but it wasn't the case.

Calling the cops for a mother that went to the neighbors next door and left her kid home alone sleeping is also going too far.

Sorry but if I had kids I certainly wouldn't leave them unattended while I went drinking alcohol and out for a meal.

Make no mistake about it either, you can mask it up anyway you like. But the fact is that is exactly what happened. They left their children, unattended, in a place they weren't overly familiar with, in a place where they don't know anyone outside their group.

That to me is absolute neglect and irresponsible parenting and I can't quite believe that people thought this was acceptable before this incident and to be quite honest, I'm struggling to think since this how people can justify any sort of "defence" for this behaviour.

Still think that it's a bit of an overreaction. Being raised in a third world country might have an effect on me having a different point of view, but the parents were right there, checking on their kids every 10 minutes. Checking on your kids every 10 minutes despite being some 50 yards away from them has a much larger effect in terms of safety than, say, sleeping in the room next door. No one would have said that the parents are irresponsible if it happened while they were all asleep.

The parents weren't just 50 yards away checking on them every ten mins though. They were over 200 yards away and they checked the kids at 8 , then one of their friends checked at 8:30 but didn't check up on Maddie and then Kate checked up on them at 9 and that's when they noticed she was missing.

Damjan mate lets just say you won't be getting the job to babysit my adorable granddaughter. You maybe right that third world attitudes are different and that makes it more difficult for you to understand the reaction of people in the UK and the media.Leaving babies and a three year old unattended for any length of time without an adult in attendance on the same premises and within earshot is completely unacceptable.

The parents have paid an incredibly high price for their stupidity and it is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives regardless of whether Madeleine is found or not. I don't subscribe to the theories that the parents are responsible for her disappearance.

devaney » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:49 pm wrote:Damjan mate lets just say you won't be getting the job to babysit my adorable granddaughter. You maybe right that third world attitudes are different and that makes it more difficult for you to understand the reaction of people in the UK and the media.Leaving babies and a three year old unattended for any length of time without an adult in attendance on the same premises and within earshot is completely unacceptable.

The parents have paid an incredibly high price for their stupidity and it is something they will have to live with for the rest of their lives regardless of whether Madeleine is found or not. I don't subscribe to the theories that the parents are responsible for her disappearance.

Something somehwere doesn't sit right with the case. I'm not sure what, but something smells funny.

The parents for me needed locking up as soon as this came to light. You describe it as a high price to pay, I disagree with that notion. I firmly believe if you're going to do something so stupid, then you deserve whatever is thrown at you. I have absolutely no sympathy for them what so ever.