VICTOR MOSES - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:28 pm

StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:08 pm wrote: Another Shaun Wright-Phillips type for me, flatters to deceive.


Don't think Shaun Wright Phillips was ever employed in a central, never mind creative, role Stu, and to be fair to Moses' it's a position that imo nobody in this forum would expect him to play and yet our manager does.

Square pegs in round holes, I'm not suggesting Moses' is top shelf but we're certainly not using him in a role that best suits his ability and therefore we're not getting the best out of him.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:31 pm

Would prefer to see us go back to a 4-3-3 formation and Moses can be one of the wide guys.

We have gone to this 3 CB formation after purchasing Sahko and it doesn't seem to bring much defensive steel and certainly isn't giving us width.
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Postby Stu the Red » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:35 pm

woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:28 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:08 pm wrote: Another Shaun Wright-Phillips type for me, flatters to deceive.


Don't think Shaun Wright Phillips was ever employed in a central, never mind creative, role Stu, and to be fair to Moses' it's a position that imo nobody in this forum would expect him to play and yet our manager does.

Square pegs in round holes, I'm not suggesting Moses' is top shelf but we're certainly not using him in a role that best suits his ability and therefore we're not getting the best out of him.


The point is though Woof when you're playing that role its effectively free.

You're supposed to drift, find out where you can use your abilities and how to create chances and hurt your opponents. If that means going and standing on the left wing, skinning the full back and smashing the ball across the six yard box every time you get it then do it. If the games going through you and you're creating problems the manager isn't going to take you off simply because you're playing to wide. A good winger should be able to perform that role to a decent standard. Moses is an average winger, hence the average performances. To be quite honest, if you're any good as an attacking player its the easiest role to perform in as you can pretty much pick where you want to play.

When I mention Wright-Phillips I didn't mean he was played centrally though, what I meant was same level of player. Overly hyped so much he got the big transfer to Chelsea, they realised he wasn't that good and shipped him out.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:38 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:31 pm wrote:Would prefer to see us go back to a 4-3-3 formation and Moses can be one of the wide guys.

We have gone to this 3 CB formation after purchasing Sahko and it doesn't seem to bring much defensive steel and certainly isn't giving us width.


I thought the 3 5 2 formation was designed to give a team defensive/attacking flexibilty AND width. It allows the team two up front at all times whilst the midfield 5 alternate between attacking or defensive postures ?
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:40 pm

Do you think it's giving us that ?

We looked more threatening at the start of the season ( well first half each game ) with the 4-3-3.
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Postby Stu the Red » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:41 pm

woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:38 pm wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:31 pm wrote:Would prefer to see us go back to a 4-3-3 formation and Moses can be one of the wide guys.

We have gone to this 3 CB formation after purchasing Sahko and it doesn't seem to bring much defensive steel and certainly isn't giving us width.


I thought the 3 5 2 formation was designed to give a team defensive/attacking flexibilty AND width. It allows the team two up front at all times whilst the midfield 5 alternate between attacking or defensive postures ?


For me its the best tactical set up you can get if its set up properly. Its extremely good for deep lying counter attacking sides with ball players in most positions.

When you start trying to press with this system and play a high line it can become disjointed and you end up with players in the wrong positions. It can also leave the player between the midfield and attack struggling to influence the game as you're limiting the space he has to work in.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:44 pm

StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:35 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:28 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:08 pm wrote: Another Shaun Wright-Phillips type for me, flatters to deceive.


Don't think Shaun Wright Phillips was ever employed in a central, never mind creative, role Stu, and to be fair to Moses' it's a position that imo nobody in this forum would expect him to play and yet our manager does.

Square pegs in round holes, I'm not suggesting Moses' is top shelf but we're certainly not using him in a role that best suits his ability and therefore we're not getting the best out of him.


The point is though Woof when you're playing that role its effectively free.

You're supposed to drift, find out where you can use your abilities and how to create chances and hurt your opponents. If that means going and standing on the left wing, skinning the full back and smashing the ball across the six yard box every time you get it then do it. If the games going through you and you're creating problems the manager isn't going to take you off simply because you're playing to wide. A good winger should be able to perform that role to a decent standard. Moses is an average winger, hence the average performances. To be quite honest, if you're any good as an attacking player its the easiest role to perform in as you can pretty much pick where you want to play.

When I mention Wright-Phillips I didn't mean he was played centrally though, what I meant was same level of player. Overly hyped so much he got the big transfer to Chelsea, they realised he wasn't that good and shipped him out.


Fair enough Stu, but think it's a bit unfair to castigate an "average" player for his performance in a role to which he's clearly unsuited. At least let's see the fella given a run of games in a role that suits his abilities before we decide to bin him. As a wide player for a variety of reasons I'd take him over Sterling or the recently departed Downing any day of the week.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:45 pm

How many teams have managed to get success with it though ? 

It appears more get more success from variations of. 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 type formations
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:47 pm

woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:44 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:35 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:28 pm wrote:
Don't think Shaun Wright Phillips was ever employed in a central, never mind creative, role Stu, and to be fair to Moses' it's a position that imo nobody in this forum would expect him to play and yet our manager does.

Square pegs in round holes, I'm not suggesting Moses' is top shelf but we're certainly not using him in a role that best suits his ability and therefore we're not getting the best out of him.


The point is though Woof when you're playing that role its effectively free.

You're supposed to drift, find out where you can use your abilities and how to create chances and hurt your opponents. If that means going and standing on the left wing, skinning the full back and smashing the ball across the six yard box every time you get it then do it. If the games going through you and you're creating problems the manager isn't going to take you off simply because you're playing to wide. A good winger should be able to perform that role to a decent standard. Moses is an average winger, hence the average performances. To be quite honest, if you're any good as an attacking player its the easiest role to perform in as you can pretty much pick where you want to play.

When I mention Wright-Phillips I didn't mean he was played centrally though, what I meant was same level of player. Overly hyped so much he got the big transfer to Chelsea, they realised he wasn't that good and shipped him out.


Fair enough Stu, but think it's a bit unfair to castigate an "average" player for his performance in a role to which he's clearly unsuited. At least let's see the fella given a run of games in a role that suits his abilities before we decide to bin him. As a wide player for a variety of reasons I'd take him over Sterling or the recently departed Downing any day of the week.


Based on what though Woof ? Doesn't seem to be any better than either of those players you mention.

I would certainly prefer to give playing time to Sterling ( one of our own) . And can't see him giving us anything special regardless of his position.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:59 pm

Sterling

"One of our own"  ???

Imo Moses' is more direct and has 10 x more "heart" than Downing ever had

He has more strength and loads more experience than Sterling

Also, although maybe lacking Sterling's acceleration imo when up to speed he's not that far short of Sterlings flat out pace and is quicker than Downing ever was.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:05 pm

Yes Sterling is one of our own - a youngster that we develop into a quality player.

So far Moses hadn't shown us more than what Downing did last season.

We called all play with heart - is it worth much without a product on the pitch. He is showing a team like Chelsea would be happy to let him go on loan IMO - he just doesn't have the quality IMO.

He is IMO a mid table player at best

Also IMO people were that desperate for Downing to leave ( despite him doing well second half last season ) they accepted anyone arriving without questioning their quality - that's why Moses arrived without too much questioning. He was a very poor consolation prize after we lost out on some quality players
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Postby only me » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:15 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:05 pm wrote:Yes Sterling is one of our own - a youngster that we develop into a quality player.

So far Moses hadn't shown us more than what Downing did last season.

We called all play with heart - is it worth much without a product on the pitch. He is showing a team like Chelsea would be happy to let him go on loan IMO - he just doesn't have the quality IMO.

He is IMO a mid table player at best


He is an impact sub ,that is why we signed him and he fills this position perfectly. Did you miss his setup for the 2nd goal today? that's impact for you. Yes he is too crude to be a starter on a consistent basis but when he plays he gives it all out and he has some tricks which can impact the score. When little Coutinho returns he would probably drop to the bench and wait his chance to come in and bring a change. If you can live with Lucas as our starting DM for years now i guess you can live with Moses as a legitimate sub.

Downing (which i really rated at first) is just the opposite ,talented but gutless ,Moses plays with intent and urgency and he has the speed and strength to impact the game.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:15 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:05 pm wrote:Yes Sterling is one of our own - a youngster that we develop into a quality player.

So far Moses hadn't shown us more than what Downing did last season.

We called all play with heart - is it worth much without a product on the pitch. He is showing a team like Chelsea would be happy to let him go on loan IMO - he just doesn't have the quality IMO.

He is IMO a mid table player at best


Sterling isn't a scouser so as much as I may support him I'll never refer to him as "one of our own", but will understand why other non scouse supporters may refer to him as one of "their" own.

I've never argued that Moses is top quality but I'm more than happy to see him replace an "under-achiever" like Downing and a "not quite there yet" like Sterling.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:20 pm

By one of our own I mean - one of our own players and not another teams player.

Moses certainly IMO is offering nothing extra than we already had we both Downing and Sterling last season

Liverpool as a club shouldn't be bringing players on loan - and we have two of them. Even more two players who haven't improved us IMO
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Postby only me » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:29 pm

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:20 pm wrote:By one of our own I mean - one of our own players and not another teams player.

Moses certainly IMO is offering nothing extra than we already had we both Downing and Sterling last season

Liverpool as a club shouldn't be bringing players on loan - and we have two of them. Even more two players who haven't improved us IMO


IMO you are wrong. Both Moses and Cissoko are excellent squad addition ,Ali IMO is better the Enrique and Moses is a legit sub.
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