Liverpool FC Forum

Benny, I see the problem others have with you. You filed this down to a one on one debate, batting everything I say away, whilst also twisting it to fit your argument. I don't blame Lucas for being limited. There's 11 players in the pitch, and a manager, and all the rest.

Lucas is a decent player who does his job to limited effect. If we want more from this position, then we need a better player there. It's really that simple. Until that happens, we'll continue with the limited Lucas, playing his limited game, to the best of his limited ability.

That's my opinion. Argue it if you like, or let others give their opinions rather than dragging me into this.

That's fine - the question was - who is the better player we bring in ?

I'm more than happy to upgrade on Lucas if we can find the player to do it.

Well, I don't know. But to think amongst our reserves and academy there's not a player worthy even of the bench dosen't bode well. And it won't exactly keep Lucas on his toes.

I thought this needed addressing in the summer. Clearly BR didn't. Who would cover Lucas if he was injured, or when he is suspended? It's a worry for me, and I think we'll suffer for it more than once this season.

Was looking at some opta stats comparing Lucas to others that play his role, with particular regard to ability to intercept and tackle.

It's a bit of a read but well worth taking a look at here -->  http://eplindex.com/34672/lucas-lynchpi ... lders.html

makes points such as

Alarmingly, an opponent dribbled past Lucas once every 46.47 minutes last season. To put that into perspective, the average of all 14 players listed above (the people they're comparing Lucas too) was 98.86 minutes

Also OPTA provide some stats on Lucas' passing.

In 2012-2013 he made 1083 passes, 948 (88%) were accurate, although there's no measure provided of how long the passes were.

43% of his passes were forward, 10% were backward and 47% were sideways.

I thought this needed addressing in the summer. Clearly BR didn't. Who would cover Lucas if he was injured, or when he is suspended? It's a worry for me, and I think we'll suffer for it more than once this season. 

Me too. A massive oversight there IMO - can't believe Rodgers was content with the midfield options he had.

My point about stats is that yes, Lucas may pass it. But I don't see him pass it well. Pass accuracy stats prove nothing since the choice of pass may be the wrong one. So lets take his vision and his awareness. Is it good? Is the pass he played to a player in a good position who will help to retain the ball? Or us it a lump upfield that is touched by our player first, making it a completed pass, even though the receiver lost possession? It's hard to say, so we look at the overall picture. We very often struggle to control the game. We get beaten back more and more until its backs to the walls. I know it's not only Lucas, but I feel he is the weak link.

Lucas picked up his 5th yellow of the season and will miss the Palace game at Anfield....Him and Henderson worked like trojan's closing down
Sunderland today.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:04 pm wrote:Lucas picked up his 5th yellow of the season and will miss the Palace game at Anfield....Him and Henderson worked like trojan's closing down
Sunderland today.

Henderson was poor mate, Lucas did ok.

Lucas is definitely a player we can improve on... He has done well and has improved as a player... but he and Stevie G pairing right now is the weakest link in the team... If we want to keep Stevie G in the team because of his creativity, we need a much more athletic DM who can cover alot of ground...

maguskwt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:29 pm wrote:Lucas is definitely a player we can improve on... He has done well and has improved as a player... but he and Stevie G pairing right now is the weakest link in the team... If we want to keep Stevie G in the team because of his creativity, we need a much more athletic DM who can cover alot of ground...

Lucas does cover ground, and tackle, but that's it.

Way off the pace yet again. The defence was exposed time after time. The gap in front of the defenders was huge every time Lucas vacated his position. His clumsiness in trying to get back brought his inevitable yellow, and of course his suspension. Not sure why people are thinking he played a good game. He did put in one fine tackle, but I don't remember him doing much else. The ease with which Sunderland got at us says it all about how protective Lucas was.

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:33 pm wrote:Way off the pace yet again. The defence was exposed time after time. The gap in front of the defenders was huge every time Lucas vacated his position. His clumsiness in trying to get back brought his inevitable yellow, and of course his suspension. Not sure why people are thinking he played a good game. He did put in one fine tackle, but I don't remember him doing much else. The ease with which Sunderland got at us says it all about how protective Lucas was.

Wouldn't you say the same about Gerrard though?

damjan193 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:46 pm wrote:

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:33 pm wrote:Way off the pace yet again. The defence was exposed time after time. The gap in front of the defenders was huge every time Lucas vacated his position. His clumsiness in trying to get back brought his inevitable yellow, and of course his suspension. Not sure why people are thinking he played a good game. He did put in one fine tackle, but I don't remember him doing much else. The ease with which Sunderland got at us says it all about how protective Lucas was.

Wouldn't you say the same about Gerrard though?

I thought SG looked a bit better today. He pressed higher up the pitch. But he wasn't great, no. But isn't Lucas the holding midfielder? I wish he'd support the attack a little more often too. If he pushed up even just a little, we'd retrieve more of our attacks that are cleared.

I like Lucas. He's an honest, hard grafter. I wish he was more expansive. We should be moving as a unit, but Lucas tends to chase the ball even when it's not in his jurisdiction. Instead of hounding the ball and leaving gaps, he should be reading the play better and closing down space.

I think though that even BR will be looking to bring in a competitor to his position come January.

He's suspended for the next match. I'm almost positive we'll look much more fluent and in control. We shall see,

damjan193 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:46 pm wrote:

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:33 pm wrote:Way off the pace yet again. The defence was exposed time after time. The gap in front of the defenders was huge every time Lucas vacated his position. His clumsiness in trying to get back brought his inevitable yellow, and of course his suspension. Not sure why people are thinking he played a good game. He did put in one fine tackle, but I don't remember him doing much else. The ease with which Sunderland got at us says it all about how protective Lucas was.

Wouldn't you say the same about Gerrard though?

Good point ,what's your considered assessment of what Gerrard offered today Red end ? If you like I can possibly sum it up in a few bullet points.
1 Decent corner for our first ,and an exceptionally beautiful ball for Sturridge.
2,Nutmegged again....first signs of tiredness.
3,The tackles for column ,for all those budding stat freaks would be embarrassingly sparse ,if not empty.
4.His eagerness to defend when Toure was off the field ,nearly resulted in one tired pathetically weak header looping under our own bar.
5.He trudged off the pitch absolutely goosed.

Judgement:  second half liability,and not for the first time this season.

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:11 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:46 pm wrote:

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:33 pm wrote:Way off the pace yet again. The defence was exposed time after time. The gap in front of the defenders was huge every time Lucas vacated his position. His clumsiness in trying to get back brought his inevitable yellow, and of course his suspension. Not sure why people are thinking he played a good game. He did put in one fine tackle, but I don't remember him doing much else. The ease with which Sunderland got at us says it all about how protective Lucas was.

Wouldn't you say the same about Gerrard though?

I thought SG looked a bit better today. He pressed higher up the pitch. But he wasn't great, no. But isn't Lucas the holding midfielder? I wish he'd support the attack a little more often too. If he pushed up even just a little, we'd retrieve more of our attacks that are cleared.

I like Lucas. He's an honest, hard grafter. I wish he was more expansive. We should be moving as a unit, but Lucas tends to chase the ball even when it's not in his jurisdiction. Instead of hounding the ball and leaving gaps, he should be reading the play better and closing down space.

I think though that even BR will be looking to bring in a competitor to his position come January.

He's suspended for the next match. I'm almost positive we'll look much more fluent and in control. We shall see,

Fair enough mate. I think that we'll struggle to cover the defenders even more without Lucas. We'll just have to wait and see.