Liverpool FC Forum

I agree, its an outrageous assumption to put Lucas on the same level as the imperious Makelele ,I don't believe there has been a more astute
and better prepared defensive midfielder in the game since he retired. Lucas is a good player ,but falls way short in comparison to Makelele.

Makelele is a student of the game ,and he read the play perfectly for Chelsea ....definitely the best buy Ranieri ever made ,and it paid dividends
for Mourinho.

Benny The Noon » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:54 pm wrote:
The question is though mate - who is that better player that we can attract currently ?

I compare him more to Makele as a player - he wasn't blessed with great creative skill or pace or raking 30 yard passes , he gave away silly free kicks and yellow cards , passed the ball 5 yards sideways yet was often said by Maureen to be the most important player in the squad because he allowed others to express themselves by doing the hard work

This is what Perez the Madrid Chairman said about Makalele

“ We will not miss Makélelé. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause Makélelé to be forgotten.[5] ”

Then he goes and wins a world cup and the league with Chelsea. Yeah garbage.

f*cking ridiculous comment. Quite possibly one of the worst comments I've ever heard in my life. The lad was practically a world class footballer.

He could read the game better than anyone and completely dictated the play inside his own half. As for saying he couldn't play a ball well I'm sorry but thats plain and utter rubbish. He was an excellent passer of a ball. One of the very few players of the modern era to actually play in a manufactured position and be perfect for it.

Shocking statement from the forum idiot!!!

RED BEERGOGGLES » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:59 pm wrote:
Every team needs a player the calibre of Lucas lad ,its fucking amazing how much you see in regards to a players overall ability ,yet you simply omit
from any of your appraisals just to what extent Gerrard has become a fucking  liability...... I would take Lucas over any other defensive midfielder
currently in the Premiership

Every team needs a dog average central midfielder who doesn't do anything? Man Utd, Cleverly, Chelsea, Mikel, Arsenal, Denilson, Tottenham... erm... struggling to think of one they've swapped that many players around... Man City... Milner... yeah... guess you're right

As for the last part about taking him over any other midfielder you must be on the wind up surely?

StuYesThatStu » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:32 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:54 pm wrote:
The question is though mate - who is that better player that we can attract currently ?

I compare him more to Makele as a player - he wasn't blessed with great creative skill or pace or raking 30 yard passes , he gave away silly free kicks and yellow cards , passed the ball 5 yards sideways yet was often said by Maureen to be the most important player in the squad because he allowed others to express themselves by doing the hard work

This is what Perez the Madrid Chairman said about Makalele

“ We will not miss Makélelé. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause Makélelé to be forgotten.[5] ”

Then he goes and wins a world cup and the league with Chelsea. Yeah garbage.

f*cking ridiculous comment. Quite possibly one of the worst comments I've ever heard in my life. The lad was practically a world class footballer.

He could read the game better than anyone and completely dictated the play inside his own half. As for saying he couldn't play a ball well I'm sorry but thats plain and utter rubbish. He was an excellent passer of a ball. One of the very few players of the modern era to actually play in a manufactured position and be perfect for it.

Shocking statement from the forum idiot!!!

The statement was actually made by Perez the Madrid chairmen and if you read the post properly numbnuts you would clearly see that.

And Ace,RBG - certainly wasnt comparing the two in terms of ability because no one has ever come close to Makelele in that role - more about the style they play and how often people dont see the importance of that player in the team

Even Makalele wasnt rated by everyone because they didnt fully understand his role in the team and how important it was and how well he played it.

I see our midfield overrun again and again. Something isn't right.

Benny The Noon » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:19 am wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:32 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:54 pm wrote:
The question is though mate - who is that better player that we can attract currently ?

I compare him more to Makele as a player - he wasn't blessed with great creative skill or pace or raking 30 yard passes , he gave away silly free kicks and yellow cards , passed the ball 5 yards sideways yet was often said by Maureen to be the most important player in the squad because he allowed others to express themselves by doing the hard work

This is what Perez the Madrid Chairman said about Makalele

“ We will not miss Makélelé. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause Makélelé to be forgotten.[5] ”

Then he goes and wins a world cup and the league with Chelsea. Yeah garbage.

f*cking ridiculous comment. Quite possibly one of the worst comments I've ever heard in my life. The lad was practically a world class footballer.

He could read the game better than anyone and completely dictated the play inside his own half. As for saying he couldn't play a ball well I'm sorry but thats plain and utter rubbish. He was an excellent passer of a ball. One of the very few players of the modern era to actually play in a manufactured position and be perfect for it.

Shocking statement from the forum idiot!!!

The statement was actually made by Perez the Madrid chairmen and if you read the post properly numbnuts you would clearly see that.

And Ace,RBG - certainly wasnt comparing the two in terms of ability because no one has ever come close to Makelele in that role - more about the style they play and how often people dont see the importance of that player in the team

Even Makalele wasnt rated by everyone because they didnt fully understand his role in the team and how important it was and how well he played it.

1. You said you compare Lucas to Makelele. Its in black and white in the quotations. As I said, ridiculous comment. Thats like comparing Alan Shearer and Gabby Agbonlahor. Most normal people wouldn't put them in the same scentance.

2. What has a quote by a chairman got to do with anything what so ever? Again, you're just using random pathetic things to try and make your point look stronger, much like when you said "Fowler scored goals Owen could only dream of".... when in reality, they just make your arguements look even more weak. Using opinion to back up more opinion is all you can muster. Whats worse is, its uneducated opinion that means nothing and makes absolutely zero sense.

3. The last scentance, You're again passing stupid opinion off as fact YET AGAIN!!!

You're a complete waste of space who is to stupid to comprehend anything anyone has EVER said to you.

@WhoScored
.@LucasLeiva87: In the last 5 PL seasons, Lucas has 51 more tackles + interceptions (799) than any other player, despite missing 46 matches

Benny The Noon » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:54 pm wrote:@WhoScored
.@LucasLeiva87: In the last 5 PL seasons, Lucas has 51 more tackles + interceptions (799) than any other player, despite missing 46 matches

when we are being over run it`s easy to miss the work lucas does, and it`s easy to blame him for all our failings, certainly easier to blame him than a lad who has already written his name alongside the likes of shankly, paisley, liddell, dalglish etc in the pantheon of club greats.

Stats? What use are they? If we kept the ball better, we'd not need half as many tackles and interceptions. You might point to those stats and say "great player" or you could say that due to our midfield, we don't have the ball much, hence more defensive stats than attacking stats. If he'd stop giving the ball away, he'd not have to intercept, and if he could tackle better, we'd not concede so many free-kicks and yellow cards.

Stats prove nowt in this case.

Joe Allen's pass completion rate is fantastic but does that really make him a good player. Most of his passes are 5 yards backwards or sideways. Figures do not tell the entire story. During Suarez's 18 match ban we lost 3 games but does that paint a true picture? Lucas is very useful and an outstanding professional but is he really as good as some people think?

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:10 am wrote:Stats? What use are they? If we kept the ball better, we'd not need half as many tackles and interceptions. You might point to those stats and say "great player" or you could say that due to our midfield, we don't have the ball much, hence more defensive stats than attacking stats. If he'd stop giving the ball away, he'd not have to intercept, and if he could tackle better, we'd not concede so many free-kicks and yellow cards.

Stats prove nowt in this case.

Stats can be used in various ways to either prove or disprove theories or back up opinion

What they are though are factual representation of certain areas of play

In this instant they show what some posters are showing about an area of Lucas's game that is strong and goes unnoticed

The stats don't show he is a great player - and that's not why the stat was posted. What it should highlight is the amount of work that Lucas does and certain things that get taken for granted are overlooked.

Interceptions and tackling are a big part of a defensive midfielders make up - Lucas is doing more than any other DM over a consistent period. That shows he is doing a vital if unspectacular role currently and IMO doing it to the managers tactics

Benny The Noon » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:50 am wrote:

RedAnt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:10 am wrote:Stats? What use are they? If we kept the ball better, we'd not need half as many tackles and interceptions. You might point to those stats and say "great player" or you could say that due to our midfield, we don't have the ball much, hence more defensive stats than attacking stats. If he'd stop giving the ball away, he'd not have to intercept, and if he could tackle better, we'd not concede so many free-kicks and yellow cards.

Stats prove nowt in this case.

Stats can be used in various ways to either prove or disprove theories or back up opinion

What they are though are factual representation of certain areas of play

In this instant they show what some posters are showing about an area of Lucas's game that is strong and goes unnoticed

The stats don't show he is a great player - and that's not why the stat was posted. What it should highlight is the amount of work that Lucas does and certain things that get taken for granted are overlooked.

Interceptions and tackling are a big part of a defensive midfielders make up - Lucas is doing more than any other DM over a consistent period. That shows he is doing a vital if unspectacular role currently and IMO doing it to the managers tactics

Again mate, I'm not sure anyone is denying his hard work. I question his effectiveness. A player in his position needs a cooler head. He needs to get his foot on the ball and simmer things down. Ball winners who can't actually use the ball effectively are kind of pointless since the ball just comes back (hence the high interception count). So often, rather than release pressure, he puts us under more, by giving away a foul, or leaving a huge gap, or a poor pass.

He does the "thankless task". I'd thank him to do it better. It's up to him. If he's as good as Gerrard, then he can start to expand his game and dominate proceedings. The fact is that he's not even close to Gerrard, and he will never influence a game to a decent level.

I'd like to see someone winning the ball, and giving us possession. Someone who is aggressive, causing the opposition to figure out a way around him, rather than through him.

Again no one has said he is as good as Gerrard !

And when you add in his pass completion ( higher than anyone else so far this season for us and in the last. 3 games for both teams ) he not only wins the ball , tackle consistently , cuts out passes - he also keeps possession well.

The stats start to back up how effective Lucas actually is to the team.

I don't understand what your stats mean. They're numbers. Look at our performances over the last five years. We get dominated by teams both home and away. The level of opposition dosent matter. We've made awful teams look great. Our tough man in midfield isn't tough enough. Give me Makele, Mascha, Roy Keane or Steven Gerrard any day. Watch the Man U game again. Lucas' is out of position and off the pace again and again. Of course he also got his mandatory yellow whilst giving yet another dangerous free kick. Once he's booked, he limits his game even further.

He could win 1000 tackles a game for all I care. It only takes one foul to lose a game.

As for Gerrard, I said Lucas can't control a game like Stevie. That was all. I never claimed anyone said anything else.

Gerrard though is a player who can dominate matches. Lucas is extremely limited. If we want more from this position, like someone who can do the thankless task, whilst adding a few assists, or goals that we can be thankful for, then we need a player who has more to his game. If BR thinks that you can waste an entire place in the team just for breaking up an opponents play, then he's naive. There's players out there that can do all that, and a whole lot more, too.

Which players ? And include the ones we can buy ?

To blame the lack of control on 1 player shows tunnel vision. If you want to blame Lucas by all means crack on - but equal blame must also be apportioned to his partner in the middle ( and this season IMO is more culpable )