Liverpool FC Forum

aCe' » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:27 pm wrote:Scholes the better midfielder, Gerrard the better all round player. The reason why Gerrard edges it for me is because -in his prime- Gerrard could carry the ball up the pitch, and score that all important goal that wins you the big game. Scholes could dictate the play and win you most games by doing just that, he obviously benefited from having some of the best attacking players in the world playing alongside him and taking care of the scoring aspect of it (he scored his fair share of goals too).  Gerrard is also a better tackler, dribbler, finisher, crosser. He's faster, bigger, stronger, better in the air, and that makes him more versatile than Scholes. 

That said, what Scholes had which many players today lack is that ability to completely control a game of football by simply being the most intelligent player on the pitch. The only players I'd put in the same category today are Pirlo and Xavi.

As for Lampard, I think he's better than many give him credit for. He's obviously quite some distance behind the 2 in terms of natural ability but you have to respect the man for accomplishing as much as he has (in terms of titles and goalscoring record) given his ability. He probably works on his game more than any other player around and all that hard work has deservedly put his name up there with the likes of Gerrard and Scholes in conversations about the best English midfielders in the past 15 years or so.

Understand what you're saying about Lampard, but disagree in that he can work as hard as he likes, he'll never be within the same galaxy as the other two. Lampard is a good player, whose strength is scoring goals nothing more.

I certainly wouldn't say Gerrard is a better finisher or dribbler than Scholes. Gerrard can carry a ball better over distance, but if you put Scholes in a tight spot he was more than comfortable taking a man on or taking a few touches, alot more so than Gerrard in my opinion.

I would also say Alonso is a player that can control a game (for me better than Pirlo).

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:10 am wrote:I'm still convinced that Scholes wouldn't have been praised as much as he is if he didn't have strong players around him. Having said that, Manchester probably wouldn't have worked without him, so no disrespect to him, he was a phenomenal player, one of the most intelligent I've ever seen. Bringing him back after he retired says a lot about how much they needed him.

But I can't believe how much Lampard is being underrated here. He had no problems with different players or different managers. Always was phenomenal in the final third. Was a part of most of the goals Chelsea scored. Scored quite a few himself too, Chelsea's leading goalscorer I believe? He might not have been better than Scholes in terms of ability but his contribution to the games he played was massive.

Alonso was twice the player Lampard is/was. People don't underate Lampard, the more clued up people rate the lad properly, the media following stato's who don't understand the game properly don't get it. They just see his goals to games ratio (which is impressive).

Scholes probably wouldn't have gotten the praise he deserved without great players around him because to many people who claim to understand the game don't know there ***** from their elbow.

They don't understand what makes a player a good or great player. They don't understand weaknesses and strengths and or tactics and they certainly don't understand intelligence on a football pitch. The only things most people do understand are pace, fitness and stamina.

Alot of people, seemingly, yourself included judge a player on how "effective" they are at doing "a job" in a team. If you put Messi in the worst team in the world, he wouldn't be classed as the best player because when he tries to play a one two he probably wouldn't get it back because the person playing with him won't be on the same wave length... when looking at a player "potential" it effectively is, their individual attributes, they then learn to to maximise them into a critical part of a team... if Messi is playing in a side that keeps giving the ball away and doesn't spot his movement and keeps lumping a ball long to him (as an extreme example) and doesn't have creative players around him.... does that make Messi any less of a footballer? No, would it make him less effective? Of course it would.

But from what you're saying, if Messi played signed for Stoke tomorrow and scored less than Suarez and van Persie this season you'd probably tell me he's no longer the best player in the world... in which case you'd be extremely wrong. He'd still be the same player, but the lack of quality around him makes him less effective. (the difference in ability and being effective).

For me, the fact nearly every player who plays with or against Scholes, describe him as a genius and or the best player they've ever played with says alot (not everything) you need to know. Gary Neville said (and this I don't agree with but can see why he said it) that Scholes was "THE BEST PLAYER I'VE EVER PLAYED WITH!".... Ronaldo said the same...

I can cast iron guarentee no one would say that about Lampard. Lampard is a player who simply scores a goal... or does not much else. THE ONLY REASON people talk about him in the top bracket is because of the players he's played with. He is the main reason England have been as poor as they have over the years. His attributes are fairly limited, except in a goal scoring capacity where he is sublime from the position he plays in. There are far better midfield players scattered around the country than Lampard but they only score a fraction of the goals.

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:47 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:10 am wrote:I'm still convinced that Scholes wouldn't have been praised as much as he is if he didn't have strong players around him. Having said that, Manchester probably wouldn't have worked without him, so no disrespect to him, he was a phenomenal player, one of the most intelligent I've ever seen. Bringing him back after he retired says a lot about how much they needed him.

But I can't believe how much Lampard is being underrated here. He had no problems with different players or different managers. Always was phenomenal in the final third. Was a part of most of the goals Chelsea scored. Scored quite a few himself too, Chelsea's leading goalscorer I believe? He might not have been better than Scholes in terms of ability but his contribution to the games he played was massive.

Alonso was twice the player Lampard is/was. People don't underate Lampard, the more clued up people rate the lad properly, the media following stato's who don't understand the game properly don't get it. They just see his goals to games ratio (which is impressive).

Scholes probably wouldn't have gotten the praise he deserved without great players around him because to many people who claim to understand the game don't know there ***** from their elbow.

They don't understand what makes a player a good or great player. They don't understand weaknesses and strengths and or tactics and they certainly don't understand intelligence on a football pitch. The only things most people do understand are pace, fitness and stamina.

Alot of people, seemingly, yourself included judge a player on how "effective" they are at doing "a job" in a team. If you put Messi in the worst team in the world, he wouldn't be classed as the best player because when he tries to play a one two he probably wouldn't get it back because the person playing with him won't be on the same wave length... when looking at a player "potential" it effectively is, their individual attributes, they then learn to to maximise them into a critical part of a team... if Messi is playing in a side that keeps giving the ball away and doesn't spot his movement and keeps lumping a ball long to him (as an extreme example) and doesn't have creative players around him.... does that make Messi any less of a footballer? No, would it make him less effective? Of course it would.

But from what you're saying, if Messi played signed for Stoke tomorrow and scored less than Suarez and van Persie this season you'd probably tell me he's no longer the best player in the world... in which case you'd be extremely wrong. He'd still be the same player, but the lack of quality around him makes him less effective. (the difference in ability and being effective).

For me, the fact nearly every player who plays with or against Scholes, describe him as a genius and or the best player they've ever played with says alot (not everything) you need to know. Gary Neville said (and this I don't agree with but can see why he said it) that Scholes was "THE BEST PLAYER I'VE EVER PLAYED WITH!".... Ronaldo said the same...

I can cast iron guarentee no one would say that about Lampard. Lampard is a player who simply scores a goal... or does not much else. THE ONLY REASON people talk about him in the top bracket is because of the players he's played with. He is the main reason England have been as poor as they have over the years. His attributes are fairly limited, except in a goal scoring capacity where he is sublime from the position he plays in. There are far better midfield players scattered around the country than Lampard but they only score a fraction of the goals.

I don't like your example with Messi and Stoke, it doesn't prove your point. It's better for my point actually. Like I said, Lampard played with a lot of different players and managers and always managed to remain the same great player, constantly contributing in the games he played. Gerrard, on the other hand, played in a slightly weaker team (if we're being honest) than Man Utd and Chelsea, yet still managed to become one of the best 3 English midfielders of his time and even possibly being the best out of the three. Scholes, I believe, wouldn't have managed this if he played anywhere other than Man Utd.

I'm glad you mentioned Xabi Alonso. I know that you'll laugh this off, being the self proclaimed know-it-all that you are, but I believe that Xabi is at least at the same level as Scholes. What made Scholes such a great player? His passing, his intelligence, his positioning and reading of the game. His overall understanding of the game actually. So which of these does Xabi lack? He is great at positioning himself and reading the game, his passing is second to none plus he could put in a tackle (unlike Scholes). So how come Scholes is being named as one of the top 3 midfielders of English football, but if you try to say that Xabi belongs there too, you'll be laughed at even though his and Scholes ability aren't much different? It's mostly because of the success that Scholes has had with a team like Manchester United. If he played for, say Man City and had zero success, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:24 pm wrote:I don't like your example with Messi and Stoke, it doesn't prove your point. It's better for my point actually. Like I said, Lampard played with a lot of different players and managers and always managed to remain the same great player, constantly contributing in the games he played. Gerrard, on the other hand, played in a slightly weaker team (if we're being honest) than Man Utd and Chelsea, yet still managed to become one of the best 3 English midfielders of his time and even possibly being the best out of the three. Scholes, I believe, wouldn't have managed this if he played anywhere other than Man Utd.

I'm glad you mentioned Xabi Alonso. I know that you'll laugh this off, being the self proclaimed know-it-all that you are, but I believe that Xabi is at least at the same level as Scholes. What made Scholes such a great player? His passing, his intelligence, his positioning and reading of the game. His overall understanding of the game actually. So which of these does Xabi lack? He is great at positioning himself and reading the game, his passing is second to none plus he could put in a tackle (unlike Scholes). So how come Scholes is being named as one of the top 3 midfielders of English football, but if you try to say that Xabi belongs there too, you'll be laughed at even though his and Scholes ability aren't much different? It's mostly because of the success that Scholes has had with a team like Manchester United. If he played for, say Man City and had zero success, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Are you on drugs?

Lampard's only contribution to alround play is goals. Thats all, when you play next Essien, Drogba, Makelele, Ballack, Hazard etc etc through out your career then of course you are going to be in a winning side more often than not. My point is he doesn't control and dominate games, never has never will. Hence the reason (I'll say again just for you, England haven't been the same side since he broke into it). As for always scoring goals... its something I'll never question, he'd score goals anywhere, even if you played him in a two man midfield... but the holes he leaves in that midfield have been exposed time and time again at international level. Funny how no-one ever complained about "balance" when Gerrard played next to Scholes is it not?

You can believe what you want about Scholes, all this does is show a lack of knowledge on the game.

Scholes had a better touch and was more mobile than Xabi. Alonso was a fabulous player, one of the best in europe and I loved the way he played the game, which is exactly the reason I admire Scholes more. He had more skill in tight areas. Yes Xabi can control a game in a similar way... but Scholes could also get you twenty goals a season, Xabi didn't even get 5 (to my memory). So yeah, I guess you can say how great Xabi was because he could control a game. But Scholes could do that and score goals aswell.

By the way, unlike Lampard, Scholes, 20 goals didn't come from penalties and free kicks either (not that I'm saying that makes Lampard a bad player because he does these things, because if you did take them out, he's still have a bucket load anyway, at least comparrible if not still better than Scholes and Gerrard) Scholes scored from open play, he also, dominated midfields playing in a two man midfield where he had defensive responsibility. By the way, anyone who says he couldn't tackle was talking bubbles and again, listening the media. The lad was an excellent tackler, these people are the same raving over Lucas as a "DM"... Scholes was brilliant in the tackle, just because he had a cynical side and knew how to foul someone who'd beaten him and decided to hack them doesn't mean he couldn't tackle when a ball was there to be won.

Infact, Scholes was Alonso and Lampard in one player... thats how good he was.

The titles he's won prove it and the people he's played with (all different like you said about Lampard) prove it... and most importantly, as I said before, every player that has regularly played with and against him (with few exceptions) say the same thing.

But what would the likes of Neville, Keane, Giggs, Ronaldo, Alex Ferguson, Xavi, Iniesta, Cantona, Yorke, Schmeichal, Zidane, Bergkamp, Henry, van Persie, Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Shearer and all the others know? Obviously I don't anything about the game agreeing with no marks like this....

Just some stats to give you another Idea...

Scholes       Games: 466 Goals: 102
Lampard     Games: 408 Goals: 142 (games for Chelsea)
Alonso        Games: 143     Goals; 15 (for Liverpool) (x 3 for the sake of the arguement 439 and 45)
Gerrard      Games: 445     Goals: 98
Xavi           Games: 448 Goals: 54

(I'm guessing you're about 25 by the way....

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:42 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:24 pm wrote:I don't like your example with Messi and Stoke, it doesn't prove your point. It's better for my point actually. Like I said, Lampard played with a lot of different players and managers and always managed to remain the same great player, constantly contributing in the games he played. Gerrard, on the other hand, played in a slightly weaker team (if we're being honest) than Man Utd and Chelsea, yet still managed to become one of the best 3 English midfielders of his time and even possibly being the best out of the three. Scholes, I believe, wouldn't have managed this if he played anywhere other than Man Utd.

I'm glad you mentioned Xabi Alonso. I know that you'll laugh this off, being the self proclaimed know-it-all that you are, but I believe that Xabi is at least at the same level as Scholes. What made Scholes such a great player? His passing, his intelligence, his positioning and reading of the game. His overall understanding of the game actually. So which of these does Xabi lack? He is great at positioning himself and reading the game, his passing is second to none plus he could put in a tackle (unlike Scholes). So how come Scholes is being named as one of the top 3 midfielders of English football, but if you try to say that Xabi belongs there too, you'll be laughed at even though his and Scholes ability aren't much different? It's mostly because of the success that Scholes has had with a team like Manchester United. If he played for, say Man City and had zero success, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Are you on drugs?

Lampard's only contribution to alround play is goals. Thats all, when you play next Essien, Drogba, Makelele, Ballack, Hazard etc etc through out your career then of course you are going to be in a winning side more often than not. My point is he doesn't control and dominate games, never has never will. Hence the reason (I'll say again just for you, England haven't been the same side since he broke into it). As for always scoring goals... its something I'll never question, he'd score goals anywhere, even if you played him in a two man midfield... but the holes he leaves in that midfield have been exposed time and time again at international level. Funny how no-one ever complained about "balance" when Gerrard played next to Scholes is it not?

You can believe what you want about Scholes, all this does is show a lack of knowledge on the game.

Scholes had a better touch and was more mobile than Xabi. Alonso was a fabulous player, one of the best in europe and I loved the way he played the game, which is exactly the reason I admire Scholes more. He had more skill in tight areas. Yes Xabi can control a game in a similar way... but Scholes could also get you twenty goals a season, Xabi didn't even get 5 (to my memory). So yeah, I guess you can say how great Xabi was because he could control a game. But Scholes could do that and score goals aswell.

By the way, unlike Lampard, Scholes, 20 goals didn't come from penalties and free kicks either (not that I'm saying that makes Lampard a bad player because he does these things) Scholes scored from open play, he also, dominated midfields playing in a two man midfield where he had defensive responsibility. By the way, anyone who says he couldn't tackle was talking bubbles and again, listening the media. The lad was an excellent tackler, these people are the same raving over Lucas as a "DM"... Scholes was brilliant in the tackle, just because he had a cynical side and knew how to foul someone who'd beaten him doesn't mean he couldn't tackle.

Infact, Scholes was Alonso and Lampard in one player... thats how good he was.

The titles he's won prove it and the people he's played with (all different like you said about Lampard) prove it... and most importantly, as I said before, every player that has regularly played with and against him (with few exceptions) say the same thing.

But what would the likes of Neville, Keane, Giggs, Ronaldo, Alex Ferguson, Xavi, Iniesta, Cantona, Yorke, Schmeichal, Zidane, Bergkamp, Henry, van Persie, Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Shearer and all the others know? Obviously I don't anything about the game agreeing with no marks like this....

Mate, I don't know where you got this "you're getting this from the media" when I'm not even from England. Never even been there.

I disagree that Lampard contribution to the game was only scoring goals (though it was a great part of it). He was great in the final third and contributed to most of the goals that Chelsea scored.

I think that you're getting the impression that I believe that Scholes is not a good player. You're wrong. I think that Scholes was a phenomenal player. He was probably the best for controlling the game and making sure of its flow. But Lampard was also a great player, it's just that he was good at a different thing.

And it's not like Lampard didn't score from open play. You don't score 200+ goals in your career just by taking penalties and free-kicks. But Lampard was far superior than Scholes in the final third overally, not just at scoring goals. Scholes was better at something different, like controlling and dominating the midfield.

The truth is mate, that they're both great players, one of the best midfielders in the world. Everything else like who's better than who and who's better at what is based only on opinions, despite how highly you think of yourself in terms of understanding the game. We could keep this going for days and never getting a conclusion.

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:06 pm wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:42 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:24 pm wrote:I don't like your example with Messi and Stoke, it doesn't prove your point. It's better for my point actually. Like I said, Lampard played with a lot of different players and managers and always managed to remain the same great player, constantly contributing in the games he played. Gerrard, on the other hand, played in a slightly weaker team (if we're being honest) than Man Utd and Chelsea, yet still managed to become one of the best 3 English midfielders of his time and even possibly being the best out of the three. Scholes, I believe, wouldn't have managed this if he played anywhere other than Man Utd.

I'm glad you mentioned Xabi Alonso. I know that you'll laugh this off, being the self proclaimed know-it-all that you are, but I believe that Xabi is at least at the same level as Scholes. What made Scholes such a great player? His passing, his intelligence, his positioning and reading of the game. His overall understanding of the game actually. So which of these does Xabi lack? He is great at positioning himself and reading the game, his passing is second to none plus he could put in a tackle (unlike Scholes). So how come Scholes is being named as one of the top 3 midfielders of English football, but if you try to say that Xabi belongs there too, you'll be laughed at even though his and Scholes ability aren't much different? It's mostly because of the success that Scholes has had with a team like Manchester United. If he played for, say Man City and had zero success, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Are you on drugs?

Lampard's only contribution to alround play is goals. Thats all, when you play next Essien, Drogba, Makelele, Ballack, Hazard etc etc through out your career then of course you are going to be in a winning side more often than not. My point is he doesn't control and dominate games, never has never will. Hence the reason (I'll say again just for you, England haven't been the same side since he broke into it). As for always scoring goals... its something I'll never question, he'd score goals anywhere, even if you played him in a two man midfield... but the holes he leaves in that midfield have been exposed time and time again at international level. Funny how no-one ever complained about "balance" when Gerrard played next to Scholes is it not?

You can believe what you want about Scholes, all this does is show a lack of knowledge on the game.

Scholes had a better touch and was more mobile than Xabi. Alonso was a fabulous player, one of the best in europe and I loved the way he played the game, which is exactly the reason I admire Scholes more. He had more skill in tight areas. Yes Xabi can control a game in a similar way... but Scholes could also get you twenty goals a season, Xabi didn't even get 5 (to my memory). So yeah, I guess you can say how great Xabi was because he could control a game. But Scholes could do that and score goals aswell.

By the way, unlike Lampard, Scholes, 20 goals didn't come from penalties and free kicks either (not that I'm saying that makes Lampard a bad player because he does these things) Scholes scored from open play, he also, dominated midfields playing in a two man midfield where he had defensive responsibility. By the way, anyone who says he couldn't tackle was talking bubbles and again, listening the media. The lad was an excellent tackler, these people are the same raving over Lucas as a "DM"... Scholes was brilliant in the tackle, just because he had a cynical side and knew how to foul someone who'd beaten him doesn't mean he couldn't tackle.

Infact, Scholes was Alonso and Lampard in one player... thats how good he was.

The titles he's won prove it and the people he's played with (all different like you said about Lampard) prove it... and most importantly, as I said before, every player that has regularly played with and against him (with few exceptions) say the same thing.

But what would the likes of Neville, Keane, Giggs, Ronaldo, Alex Ferguson, Xavi, Iniesta, Cantona, Yorke, Schmeichal, Zidane, Bergkamp, Henry, van Persie, Rooney, Berbatov, Owen, Shearer and all the others know? Obviously I don't anything about the game agreeing with no marks like this....

Mate, I don't know where you got this "you're getting this from the media" when I'm not even from England. Never even been there.

I disagree that Lampard contribution to the game was only scoring goals (though it was a great part of it). He was great in the final third and contributed to most of the goals that Chelsea scored.

I think that you're getting the impression that I believe that Scholes is not a good player. You're wrong. I think that Scholes was a phenomenal player. He was probably the best for controlling the game and making sure of its flow. But Lampard was also a great player, it's just that he was good at a different thing.

And it's not like Lampard didn't score from open play. You don't score 200+ goals in your career just by taking penalties and free-kicks. But Lampard was far superior than Scholes in the final third overally, not just at scoring goals. Scholes was better at something different, like controlling and dominating the midfield.

The truth is mate, that they're both great players, one of the best midfielders in the world. Everything else like who's better than who and who's better at what is based only on opinions, despite how highly you think of yourself in terms of understanding the game. We could keep this going for days and never getting a conclusion.

Why do you think this stirs up so much debate. Lampard is no where near a great player. Never has been, never ever ever in this life will be. A good club player, with a couple of great attributes that were maximised, yes, fabulous. But to put him in Gerrard and Scholes bracket is embarrassing.

Lampard should be spoken about in the same breath as Carrick, Barry, Fellaini, Jamie Redknapp, Jimmy Bullard and Joey Barton.

Alonso was better than all of those players by a fair bit.

Gerrard and Scholes were better than them by a distance. Simple as that.

As I said, those players mentioned, never mentioned Lampard in the same manor.

Lampard is clearly better than players like Barton etc - clearly , and anyone with eyes watching a football game would be able to see that

He may not be the same standard as Gerrard and Scholes but he isn't far away in all honesty. He has been a regular part of that Chelsea midfield that conquered both the Prem and Europe for that last 12 years out scoring most strikers as well as setting up countless goals and holding together that team. He is/was a great player

Wrong again....

What is the saying? Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

Yet everything you post is just blatently wrong and media hype!

It's actually not "wrong" - it's an opinion , and one more than likely shared by far more knowledgable than you.

Benny The Noon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:53 pm wrote:It's actually not "wrong" - it's an opinion , and one more than likely shared by far more knowledgable than you.

As I said... very wrong indeed.

Joey Barton's held in extremely high regard in the football world for his ability. Unfortunately his attitude is a disgrace and hardly anyone would touch him with a barge poll because of this.

If you had any idea what so ever, you'd know this. But you don't. So jog on.

Who exactly holds him in "high regard". Teams will ignore attitude if the ability is that good - look at Suarez.

Again Stu - it's my opinion so it's not "wrong" it's an opinion - there is no right or wrong

Lampards record speaks for itself - the facts speak for themselves.

And the fact is you are wrong....

Again.



Just to respond to your last comment though... Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson both did. As do most qualified coaches, scouts and players. Never being in such an environment though, this is something you wouldn't understand.

However, his attitude was detrimental to team spirit, when he elbows you in the face and leaves your tooth through your lip because he's got paddy on because you skinned him in a "friendly game of 7 a side" then that would say everything you need to know about his personality. Unfortunately, his personality doesn't match his ability.

I absolutely from this post onwards refuse to allow any more threads to be derailed because of you're stupid posts so there fore I am not going to respond. Half the forum wants you banned... I have seen why.

Again, end of conversation.

And when top coaches declare Lampard a great player including Sven and Mourinho and Wenger ? Are they all wrong then ?

Or when top players like Carra call him great as well , plus players like Gerrard or even Messi or Ronaldo - are they all "wrong" Stu.

This is what Mourinho says about Lampard

"Between 2004 and 2007 he became, for sure, one of the best players in the world. So we motivate people also with individual challenges, and for him, for sure, that was a challenge we put there and he understood and he was ready for it.

Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/st ... pDYXeT4.99

Benny The Noon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:36 pm wrote:And when top coaches declare Lampard a great player including Sven and Mourinho and Wenger ? Are they all wrong then ?

Or when top players like Carra call him great as well , plus players like Gerrard or even Messi or Ronaldo - are they all "wrong" Stu.

This is what Mourinho says about Lampard

"Between 2004 and 2007 he became, for sure, one of the best players in the world. So we motivate people also with individual challenges, and for him, for sure, that was a challenge we put there and he understood and he was ready for it.

Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/st ... pDYXeT4.99

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Wenger has never called him great. Sven was weak and dropped Scholes for him which was flat out wrong and proved it by his international career and the way England have performed since then.

Carragher was certainly not a "top player".

Steven Gerrard never in a million years called him great... infact, he once directly said to me out of his own mouth the words "sh*te and overated" while intoxicated and said he'd rather play next to Danny Murphy... So where the f*ck you got that one from I'd love to know!

Messi and Ronaldo? Show me the quotes.

Mourinho, great manager, judge of player? Questionable at best.

Alonso

“Fans in Spain rate him very highly and I admire him a huge amount. To me Paul is a role model. He is the best midfielder I’ve seen in the last 15 or 20 years.”

Berbatov           

“Nobody else in the world can play the way Scholes does. The passes he produces all over the field and the way he changes the game is brilliant. Every manager would like him. But luckily he is here and playing with us. Paul practices that all the time. When he has finished training he always goes out and shoots.”

Best                     

“The boy can play”

Blanc                   

“I tell anyone who asks me – Scholes is the best English player. At Manchester United I saw what he can do and all I could say is wow.”

Butt                   

“In my opinion he’s up there with the top three or four players to play for United.”

Carrick                 

“Paul Scholes is just fantastic. When you play alongside him, you realise what a special talent he is.”

Charlton             

“Paul Scholes is my favourite player. He epitomises the spirit of Manchester United and everything that is good about football.”

Paul Retired at the Top…

Crerand               

“What a player Paul is. Everything about him is just perfect.”

Davids                 

“Every one of us is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes”

Fabregas             

“He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League.”

Ferdinand         

“Paul Scholes, aka Sat Nav, went from a scoring midfielder to a dictator of the game (changed his game while still at top of the game). Genius.”

Ferguson           

“He’s one of the great players to come through the ranks here.”

Figo                     

“I’m star-struck when I see Paul Scholes because you never see him. On the pitch you can’t catch him. Off the pitch he disappears.”

Fletcher             

“We won’t ever see another one like Paul Scholes. He is a legend and a real benchmark. He is not interested in the modern-day footballer’s life off the pitch, but he is a world-class player on it”

Giggs                   

“I have played with some great players during my time at United but I would have to put Paul Scholes down as the best.”

Guardiola           

“He is the best midfielder of his generation. I would have loved to have played alongside him.”

Scholes 1 0 Barcelona

Gudjohnsen     

“Scholes is one of the most complete footballers I’ve ever seen. His one-touch play is phenomenal. Whenever I have played against him, I never felt I could get close to him.”

Henry                 

“I can’t understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t seek the limelight like some of the other ‘stars’.”

Henderson       

“Sad to hear of Paul Scholes retirement! One of the best midfielders to grace the Premiership! Idolised him for years! Legend.”

Hoddle               

“There isn’t a player of his mould anywhere in the world.”

Keane                 

“No celebrity *****, no self promotion – an amazingly gifted player who remained an unaffected human being.”

Kidd                     

“Paul Scholes had the best football brain I’d ever seen in a kid. Let’s face it. Paul Scholes is in a class of its own.”

Law                       

“He’s the best all-round. A joy to watch.”

Lippi                     

“Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team.”

Maradonna       

“His technique is unique.”

Messi                   

“At La Masia, his name was mentioned a lot. He’s a teacher.”

Mourinho         

“Why isn’t he playing for England? It is crazy. Only in England. Scholes is a great, great player. So experienced and still, for me, one of the best in the world in midfield. Manchester United are lucky to have him.”

Nasri                   

“Sad to hear Paul Scholes is retiring, great player, world class player, the English Zizou.”

Neville G           

“I wouldn’t swap Paul Scholes for anybody. He is quite simply the most complete footballer I have ever played with. He is the best.”

Two Legends Who Will Be Sorely Missed…

Neville P           

“Paul, for me, is the best player in the England team. It worries teams. Speak to any other international team and they will single Paul out as England’s key player. For me, he doesn’t get the full credit that he deserves. He is a world-class player and deserves to be up there with the likes of Zidane and Figo.”

Pallister

“When you talk about the greats of Manchester United, he’s up there with Georgie Best, Bryan Robson, Ryan Giggs and Bobby Charlton just purely for the amount of medals that he’s won, he’s going to be greatly missed by Manchester United.”

Pele                     

“If he was playing with me, I would score so many more.”

Pique                   

“One of the best players I’ve ever seen in my life! Spectacular on training!! Playing with him was a joy!”

Querioz               

“When Scholes is in the team, it’s like playing with the lights switched on”

Ronaldinho       

“I want to pass like him. Who taught him how to do that?”

Ronaldo             

“Scholes is the best i’ve played with and he helped me a lot when I was young. He’s amazing.”

Rooney               

“The best player I’ve played with or against.”

Rossi                   

“One of the greats in his position has retired. Was an honor playing with Paul Scholes.. RespectForALegend”

Routledge         

“Possibly the best midfielder the Prem has seen…”

Savage               

  “Seriously legend is overused but Scholesy is a legend, end of!”

Technique, at it’s best…

Schevchenko   

“They have two of the world’s best young players in Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney, but the player who most impresses me is Paul Scholes. He is United’s most important player, he makes most things happen on the field.”

Shearer               

“If you ask footballers to pick out the player they most admire, so many of them will pick Paul Scholes.”

Simpson           

  “Paul Scholes the legend, best footballer I’ve ever witnessed in real life! Fact”

Southgate         

“Paul Scholes deserves all the accolades he will get on his retirement,most gifted English player of his generation & humble with it. Legend”

Strachan             

“He can score goals, hit crossfield passes, play one-twos, beat people and win headers in the opponents’ box, so if you take that whole package I don’t think I’ve seen anybody as consistent – and he’s been doing that for 10 or 11 years.”

Vennables         

“He’s the best one- or two-touch passer in the country. He sees the game unlike any other player.”

Viera                   

“The player in the Premiership I admire most? Easy – Scholes”

Wilshere           

“Sad to hear Paul Scholes is retiring, what a player! Top class and a great role model for any young English midfield player!”

Xavi                     

“In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything. He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more.”

Zidane                 

“My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. You rarely come across the complete footballer, but Scholes is as close to it as you can get.’”

Show me anyone saying anything saying anything similar about Lampard.