aCe' » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:31 pm wrote:Its a bit curious how every single game so far this season has turned out. Good possession and pressure from higher up in the first half. On the back foot and unable to get a hold of the ball in the second.
I've seen every sort of excuse being put out there to try and explain the drop in performances in the second half; you even had/have some suggesting the manager does it intentionally to close down spaces behind our defenders.
For me, whether intentional or not (and I'm positive its not), its a recipe for disaster. We should have lost to Swansea, a point flatters us a bit on the night but I'm okay with that. More important than the result against Swansea, and the previous 3 results as well, is us finding a solution to this drop in performance in the second half of games.
Heres my theory, in every game so far this season, we've gone into half time with a lead. We come out in the second half with the same lineup, the same instructions, and the same player positioning, but the entire outlook of the side is different. For me, its all about what the opposition do differently in the second half. What every side has done is push their back lines further up the pitch and invite our players to go behind them especially down the flanks. They start pressing us from higher up the pitch and our midfielders/defenders can no longer execute their planA (possession and slow buildup of play) given the lack of outlets further up the pitch.
For all the good work that Sturridge has done with us, he still lacks that dominance, intelligence, and presence upfront to get a hold of the ball and shield it or wait for others to join in. To be fair to him though, the service -more often than not- is lacking. His link-up play when we have possession higher up has surprised and impressed me, but when we struggle for possession and the side as a whole sits that little bit deeper, you look for your forward to hold up the ball when he gets the chance. Moses, Aspas, and Henderson as the 3 attacking midfielder are all lacking in skills, vision, and more importantly quality. Essentialy, Coutinho (who hasnt had the best start for the season) and Gerrard (long passes mainly) are the only players capable of creating good opportunities for Sturridge when the side is under pressure. Henderson's role in the side is limited to tracking back the fullback and Aspas just wanders around losing possession whenever he's afforded the chance to. Moses has a bit of directness and pace to him that is yet to be utilized so at least that's something to be considered when such a situation arises.
The big positive for me is the imminent return of Suarez. He adds a different dimension to the side and I dont think for one second that we'll be as toothless going forward in the second half with him in the side. Sides will realize the danger posed by the presence of Suarez + Coutinho + Sturridge on the counter and they're more likely to offer our attacking force a bit more respect and consideration even when their side is trailing. Having Moses as an option from the bench, if he doesnt start ahead of Henderson which is something I'd seriously consider if I was Rodgers is also likely to add some experience and quality (relatively speaking) to what has to be one of the poorest benches we've had in a while.
Hustler 2 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:26 pm wrote:But Sturridge scores 5 games in row though Stu.He doesn't do enough!?
Someone said, and I think it's a good point... we've played badly, but haven't lost. That's the only positive.
Against Villa and Swansea, they are the home team, so entitled to have posession and pressure 2nd half.
The main Worry, is that we can't keep posession of the ball.If we keep hold of the ball, the opposition can't hurt us.
Its not rocket science is it.
StuYesThatStu » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:18 pm wrote:aCe' » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:31 pm wrote:Its a bit curious how every single game so far this season has turned out. Good possession and pressure from higher up in the first half. On the back foot and unable to get a hold of the ball in the second.
I've seen every sort of excuse being put out there to try and explain the drop in performances in the second half; you even had/have some suggesting the manager does it intentionally to close down spaces behind our defenders.
For me, whether intentional or not (and I'm positive its not), its a recipe for disaster. We should have lost to Swansea, a point flatters us a bit on the night but I'm okay with that. More important than the result against Swansea, and the previous 3 results as well, is us finding a solution to this drop in performance in the second half of games.
Heres my theory, in every game so far this season, we've gone into half time with a lead. We come out in the second half with the same lineup, the same instructions, and the same player positioning, but the entire outlook of the side is different. For me, its all about what the opposition do differently in the second half. What every side has done is push their back lines further up the pitch and invite our players to go behind them especially down the flanks. They start pressing us from higher up the pitch and our midfielders/defenders can no longer execute their planA (possession and slow buildup of play) given the lack of outlets further up the pitch.
For all the good work that Sturridge has done with us, he still lacks that dominance, intelligence, and presence upfront to get a hold of the ball and shield it or wait for others to join in. To be fair to him though, the service -more often than not- is lacking. His link-up play when we have possession higher up has surprised and impressed me, but when we struggle for possession and the side as a whole sits that little bit deeper, you look for your forward to hold up the ball when he gets the chance. Moses, Aspas, and Henderson as the 3 attacking midfielder are all lacking in skills, vision, and more importantly quality. Essentialy, Coutinho (who hasnt had the best start for the season) and Gerrard (long passes mainly) are the only players capable of creating good opportunities for Sturridge when the side is under pressure. Henderson's role in the side is limited to tracking back the fullback and Aspas just wanders around losing possession whenever he's afforded the chance to. Moses has a bit of directness and pace to him that is yet to be utilized so at least that's something to be considered when such a situation arises.
The big positive for me is the imminent return of Suarez. He adds a different dimension to the side and I dont think for one second that we'll be as toothless going forward in the second half with him in the side. Sides will realize the danger posed by the presence of Suarez + Coutinho + Sturridge on the counter and they're more likely to offer our attacking force a bit more respect and consideration even when their side is trailing. Having Moses as an option from the bench, if he doesnt start ahead of Henderson which is something I'd seriously consider if I was Rodgers is also likely to add some experience and quality (relatively speaking) to what has to be one of the poorest benches we've had in a while.
The only thing I can add to that is for me Sturridge doesn't work hard enough. You look at the great strikers we had over the years, even Suarez and they won't stand around complaining. They'll make runs into channel's ask for long balls to give us an outlet. Sturridge doesn't do this enough for me.
Kenny Kan » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:32 am wrote:Disagree entirely with the OP.
4 games on the bounce now we have come out the other side of half time and sat back - this isn't coincidence and it isn't because the likes of Stoke, Swansea, or Villa can pin us back for 45 minutes unless we let them; if they could do it so easily they'd do it in the first half too. We're too good a side to allow these kind of teams to dominate us for that long. Rodgers even said the tactic was deliberate at Villa and I think that because he has found what he thought was some sort of formula to see out games he'd carry on using it because it's served us so well this far. I think he'd like us to counter attack better in these second halves to compliment the tactic hence the reason why I think he threw Sterling on with fifteen minutes to go at Swansea.
I think the lack of mobility and perhaps as some others have said stamina from midfield has made it easier just to sit, rather than using the whole pitch to run and impose ourselves, and press in other areas up front - a concern really and the midfield is the catalyst of our issues at the moment.
Also disagree entirely about Sturridge not being able to hold the ball up, he's actually very good at this and very good at drawing fouls in with his back to goal. Remember, the lad isn't fully fit yet and he's starving off any proper support from a midfield who are content to stand on the toe's of the CB's.
I really don't think Rodgers is being given any credit here at all, he's become more pragmatic and is adapting the side constantly to find the right balance, he's done it as soon as he got here when he dropped the tikka takka. I actually think it's good management and now, after what happened at Swansea I think he will again reassess or tinker with this tactic in the second half, or at least I hope so. I think we could 'shut up shop' but only if we've got a 2 goal lead so if we're only 1-0 up at half time, instead of sitting back and giving the opposition territorial advantage right from the off in the second half, I'd like us to get the second goal then drop off once we've got that 2 goal cushion. I could see that working, whether the midfield have the stamina and legs to do this though is another matter and another reason I believe why Rodgers has compensated for this when using the 'sit back' tactic.
LFC1990 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:10 am wrote:I agree with KKs post However I think it only works when you are trying to build your lead up in appose to trying to get the lead like at Swansea
I personally think the personell is the problem.
When Coutinho went off we looked very ordinary couldnt create anything. Hopefully Coutinho doesnt miss much and with Suarez returning it will give us options coming off the bench.
Someone mentioned it in the past cant think who but about resting Gerrard for away games. I agree totally.
With Gerrard in the side although he is still a fantastic player he becomes a liability at times. Henderson is far better suited to a game against swansea away.
with a midfield 3 at home looking like and away
Lucas Gerrard Lucas Henderson
Coutinho Coutinho
Henderson will give the energy to chase for 90 minutes and what an option to have coming of the bench in Gerrard.
With Suarez coming back and his ability to create something from nothing im sure we will perform better in second halves
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