Liverpool FC Forum

Well eds, if there's still money left after we bring in our primary targets, I don't see why Brendan wouldn't use it to sign some exciting attacking player. Rodgers isn't stupid, I'm sure he would love to be able to bring in any quality player that money can buy, but I presume that this the problem; we don't have enough money. Apart from the most needed signings, I believe we won't have the money to sign a quality attacker, so he'll have to improvise. What other reason would Rodgers have to look at players like the ones we are being linked with if he could sign someone better?

john craig » Mon May 27, 2013 12:54 pm wrote:I think we're right to look for value in the market rather than spunk 20 mil on a player.  We don't have the finances to do that.

Our first team needs strengthening in about 3 positions so we have to take some calculated gambles in the market, preferably on younger players who have re-sale value if they don't work out.

Our scouting department and Rodgers' judgement seem to be improving going by January's business.  I think last summer was difficult for Rodgers.  He didn't know the scouts or how reliable they were,which is why he probably went for players he worked with before like Allen and Borini.  He probably thought that was less of a gamble.

Some reports suggest FSG will put about 20 mil into the pot.  We'll hopefully shift Carroll for 15 mil.  Can't see us generating significant cash from anyone else (the likes of Spearing, Wilson, Coates, Assaidi, Shelvey maybe).  The only other thing that will boost the kitty is if Reina, Skrtel or even Suarez go for a big bid, which I can't really see, and even if they did they'd need direct replacements so it's not really money in the kitty for improving the squad we have.

With 35 mil you're probably looking at a couple of players in the 10-15mil bracket, and one or two more young prospects or older gambles for a few mil.  Sniffing around clubs in financial rouble like Sporting Lisbon (like we seem to be doing - Teixera and now possible interest in Capel and Llori) and Malaga (Arsenal with Cazorla and the left back) is a good tactic imo.  Celta Vigo are also in that bracket which is presumably why we are linked with Iasco, similarly with Porto and this Atsu.  All makes sense to me.

I'll reserve judgement until after the window shuts, but after January Rodgers and our scouts should be afforded a bit of respect imo.  It's a big window for us though and one that could make or break Rodgers' future here.  Every player he signs won't work out, but overall we have to be better after this window.

Good post

I thought so to babu.

Exactly my thoughts.

I tend to agree that we won't see any crazy spending this summer.  But if ever there was a chance to take a bit of a gamble... now would be the time.  We have a good manager, we're playing some fantastic football and we have some real quality players. Add one or two more quality players and I think we have a real chance at top 4 next season.  (Especially with all the new managers and change going on at rival clubs)

Miss out on top 4 next season though, and I can almost guarantee Suarez will be gone.  Reina will possibly leave if there is interest and assuming he doesn't leave in this window and Gerrard will be another year older again. 

I'll leave it to the clubs financial experts to make them choices though 

john craig » Mon May 27, 2013 4:54 pm wrote:I think we're right to look for value in the market rather than spunk 20 mil on a player.  We don't have the finances to do that.

Our first team needs strengthening in about 3 positions so we have to take some calculated gambles in the market, preferably on younger players who have re-sale value if they don't work out.

Our scouting department and Rodgers' judgement seem to be improving going by January's business.  I think last summer was difficult for Rodgers.  He didn't know the scouts or how reliable they were,which is why he probably went for players he worked with before like Allen and Borini.  He probably thought that was less of a gamble.

Some reports suggest FSG will put about 20 mil into the pot.  We'll hopefully shift Carroll for 15 mil.  Can't see us generating significant cash from anyone else (the likes of Spearing, Wilson, Coates, Assaidi, Shelvey maybe).  The only other thing that will boost the kitty is if Reina, Skrtel or even Suarez go for a big bid, which I can't really see, and even if they did they'd need direct replacements so it's not really money in the kitty for improving the squad we have.

With 35 mil you're probably looking at a couple of players in the 10-15mil bracket, and one or two more young prospects or older gambles for a few mil.  Sniffing around clubs in financial rouble like Sporting Lisbon (like we seem to be doing - Teixera and now possible interest in Capel and Llori) and Malaga (Arsenal with Cazorla and the left back) is a good tactic imo.  Celta Vigo are also in that bracket which is presumably why we are linked with Iasco, similarly with Porto and this Atsu.  All makes sense to me.

I'll reserve judgement until after the window shuts, but after January Rodgers and our scouts should be afforded a bit of respect imo.  It's a big window for us though and one that could make or break Rodgers' future here.  Every player he signs won't work out, but overall we have to be better after this window.

Cant say I agree with what you're saying here. To begin with, I think we ALREADY have a decent squad with useful options in most if not all positions. Lets look at our squad atm and see where a fringe player would be needed.

GK(1):
Reina,      Jones
(SORTED)


CB(2):
Skrtel, Agger, Coates, K/Toure?,
(Kolo Toure seems like a done deal) (Unless we go out and bring a top CB to pair-up with Agger then I'd much rather keep what we have. Certainly no point in spending 5-10mill on the likes of A.Williams because as far as I'm concerned there arent many CBs in Europe who are significantly better than Skrtel and those who are would cost a good chunk of cash and would probably demand CL football. As far as cover is concerned, Toure and Coates with Kelly covering for emergencies should be enough )

FB(2):
Johnson, Enrique,      Kelly, Wisdom,      Robinson
(As far as starting players, we cant do much better than what we have. Perhaps a bit of cover for Enrique might be needed but with Johnson being able to cover at LB and our options at RB I wouldnt call reinforcing the positions a priority)


CM(2):
Lucas, Gerrard,      Allen, Henderson, Shelvey
(SORTED)(It would be hard to replace either Lucas or Gerrard. Allen should improve next season and for me he should be the one providing Lucas with competition for the 2nd spot. Henderson has also improved and I cant really see us letting any of the 4 players mentioned leave the club. Leaves us with Shelvey as a 5th option to compete for 2 CM spots.)


AM,SS(3):
Coutinho, Suarez,      Downing, Sterling, Assaidi,      Suso
(Despite the side as a whole playing some excellent attacking football this season, Downing remains the obvious weak link in our starting 11 when everyone is fit. Him and Sterling are probably good enough to be squad players for a top4 side but not quite week in week out starting material. Assaidi can go if we can find another player as backup on the cheap, Suso needs to be loaned to get some experience. Leaves us a little short with a starting spot to be filled if the right player is brought in. Add the Suarez ban to the equation and an attacking reinforcement becomes an absolute must in the summer)


FW(1):
Sturridge,      Borini
(Sorted)(With Suarez being able to play the position and Sturridge/Borini improving)   


Our glaring weakness going into next season given the performances during this campaign is perhaps us missing a top quality CB with Carragher's retirement. That said, we still have the pairing of Skrtel and Agger who are both highly experienced players who could probably play for a side challenging for a top4 position. Outside that, we have to remember that we have no European duties next season and as such we probably wont need to have as big a squad given the number of fixtures to be played. I'd much rather we focused on improving the STARTING 11. That said, there's only 2 positions we can realistically improve on: CB and more importantly RW.

We dont need more quantity, more squad players. We already have enough for almost all positions and selling players like Coates, Downing and Borini to buy other squad players of a similar value to what we get and more importantly a similar calibre is just a waste of time.

A different way of looking at things: Would you sell any of Johnson, Enrique, Skrtel, Agger, Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Suarez, Sturridge for less than 15 mill ? What about Downing ? If we already have cover for most of the positions, why would we go out and spend 10mill on 3 or 4 players who are no better than the starters we already have. 

If we have the 35mill or a similar amount , as you speculated, then that money would be best spent ,imo, on a 20mill top attacking player (Eriksen, Isco, BenArfa, Sanchez, Shaqiri...etc) and a top CB.

i`m with you ace, we already have a lot of promising young players like suso, sterling, ibe, texiera, wisdom, coady etc who will struggle to get game time next season and thats without mentioning the more experienced players like allen, kelly, borini and shelvey who have all got a job on trying to make themselves regulars in the starting XI.
with that many players queueing up for a chance i just cant see the point in bringing in more squad players.
just sign calibre players like papadopolous or alderweired and if we can only afford one or two of those types of players then so be it, if we have one or two million left over put it in the bank for january, dont waste it on more squad fodder.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 27, 2013 5:19 pm wrote:i`m with you ace, we already have a lot of promising young players like suso, sterling, ibe, texiera, wisdom, coady etc who will struggle to get game time next season and thats without mentioning the more experienced players like allen, kelly, borini and shelvey who have all got a job on trying to make themselves regulars in the starting XI.
with that many players queueing up for a chance i just cant see the point in bringing in more squad players.
just sign calibre players like papadopolous or alderweired and if we can only afford one or two of those types of players then so be it, if we have one or two million left over put it in the bank for january, dont waste it on more squad fodder.

You'd get either of those two for 10-15 mil if reports are to be believed mate (maybe less for Alderweireld), which is basically the price bracket of player I was suggesting we go for.

I'm not saying we buy players to just be squad players, but look for bargains? yes.  You don't know til they pull on the shirt whether they'll turn out to be starters or a squad player, even if you spend 20 mil plus on them! Keane?  Aquilani?  But we could afford to do that then because we were already a good team.  But even 50 mil doesn't guarantee you a good player - ask Chelsea who spunked 30 on Shevchenko and 50 on Judas.

All I'm saying is that I'd be cautious about spending too much on a single player with a limited budget.  Once your team/squad is up to speed then you do what United have done for years, which is spend big on about one top player every season.  Ferdinand, Carrick, Van Persie, Rooney etc etc.  We can't do that and I doubt FSG would sanction massive money on a single player anyway.

Value for money is there if we're shrewd.  Plenty of good players have come to the PL in recent seasons under the 15 mil mark - Dembele, Vertonghen, Van der Vaart, Cazorla, Papisse Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Ba, Benteke, Coutinho, Kagawa, Michu.  There's less value for that price for players already in England I'll accept, but they do exist too, Sturridge is testament to that.

Who's to say Iaspa (the Celta Vigo lad) or Atsu (Porto) won't turn out to be top signings?  Fingers crossed we get it right.

I suspect we'll be linked with dozens of players over the coming months. I for one intend to switch off and ignore all the tosh about this player or that player allegedly a LFC target until it's signed, sealed and published on the official site.
What I also want to say about this season is that I hope we NEVER do a stupid documentary like that Being Liverpool cack again. What a bloody disgrace that was....This club is bigger than that. Our business should be conducted behind closed doors. What goes on behind the scenes, stays behind the scenes.
Amen.

john craig

You'd get either of those two for 10-15 mil if reports are to be believed mate (maybe less for Alderweireld), which is basically the price bracket of player I was suggesting we go for.

I'm not saying we buy players to just be squad players, but look for bargains? yes.  You don't know til they pull on the shirt whether they'll turn out to be starters or a squad player, even if you spend 20 mil plus on them! Keane?  Aquilani?  But we could afford to do that then because we were already a good team.  But even 50 mil doesn't guarantee you a good player - ask Chelsea who spunked 30 on Shevchenko and 50 on Judas.

All I'm saying is that I'd be cautious about spending too much on a single player with a limited budget.  Once your team/squad is up to speed then you do what United have done for years, which is spend big on about one top player every season.  Ferdinand, Carrick, Van Persie, Rooney etc etc.  We can't do that and I doubt FSG would sanction massive money on a single player anyway.

Value for money is there if we're shrewd.  Plenty of good players have come to the PL in recent seasons under the 15 mil mark - Dembele, Vertonghen, Van der Vaart, Cazorla, Papisse Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Ba, Benteke, Coutinho, Kagawa, Michu.  There's less value for that price for players already in England I'll accept, but they do exist too, Sturridge is testament to that.

Who's to say Iaspa (the Celta Vigo lad) or Atsu (Porto) won't turn out to be top signings?  Fingers crossed we get it right.

as you say john every signing is a risk but i feel we should be trying to sign highly rated young players and players other top clubs want to sign, not virtual unknowns.
we have already got a huge points gap to make up and thats before the likes of chelsea, united and city get their chequebooks out and start bringing in more star names in the summer.
the odds of bridging that gap with £2m and £3m bargain buys from relegated spanish clubs must be very long indeed.
at least the likes of papadopolous and alderweired (not to mention eriksson) have attracted the interest of a host of top european clubs and to me thats a decent barometer of their potential, obviously it`s not a given that they`ll come here and succeed but at least they have half a chance.
when the two cowboys started to bleed the club dry rafa scoured the four corners of the earth to try and find a low cost superstar but he couldnt do it, and this was the man who plucked mascherano out of west hams reserves.
i`m just a bit fed up of seeing the dossena`s, diomede`s, ngog`s, assaidi`s, gonzales`s, degen`s, kronkamp`s, josemi`s, ferri`s, voronin`s, diarra`s, vignal`s etc etc etc coming to the club and contributing very little, i had hoped those days of packing our squad with average players was a thing of the past.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 27, 2013 10:16 pm wrote:

john craig

You'd get either of those two for 10-15 mil if reports are to be believed mate (maybe less for Alderweireld), which is basically the price bracket of player I was suggesting we go for.

I'm not saying we buy players to just be squad players, but look for bargains? yes.  You don't know til they pull on the shirt whether they'll turn out to be starters or a squad player, even if you spend 20 mil plus on them! Keane?  Aquilani?  But we could afford to do that then because we were already a good team.  But even 50 mil doesn't guarantee you a good player - ask Chelsea who spunked 30 on Shevchenko and 50 on Judas.

All I'm saying is that I'd be cautious about spending too much on a single player with a limited budget.  Once your team/squad is up to speed then you do what United have done for years, which is spend big on about one top player every season.  Ferdinand, Carrick, Van Persie, Rooney etc etc.  We can't do that and I doubt FSG would sanction massive money on a single player anyway.

Value for money is there if we're shrewd.  Plenty of good players have come to the PL in recent seasons under the 15 mil mark - Dembele, Vertonghen, Van der Vaart, Cazorla, Papisse Cisse, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Ba, Benteke, Coutinho, Kagawa, Michu.  There's less value for that price for players already in England I'll accept, but they do exist too, Sturridge is testament to that.

Who's to say Iaspa (the Celta Vigo lad) or Atsu (Porto) won't turn out to be top signings?  Fingers crossed we get it right.

as you say john every signing is a risk but i feel we should be trying to sign highly rated young players and players other top clubs want to sign, not virtual unknowns.
we have already got a huge points gap to make up and thats before the likes of chelsea, united and city get their chequebooks out and start bringing in more star names in the summer.
the odds of bridging that gap with £2m and £3m bargain buys from relegated spanish clubs must be very long indeed.
at least the likes of papadopolous and alderweired (not to mention eriksson) have attracted the interest of a host of top european clubs and to me thats a decent barometer of their potential, obviously it`s not a given that they`ll come here and succeed but at least they have half a chance.
when the two cowboys started to bleed the club dry rafa scoured the four corners of the earth to try and find a low cost superstar but he couldnt do it, and this was the man who plucked mascherano out of west hams reserves.
i`m just a bit fed up of seeing the dossena`s, diomede`s, ngog`s, assaidi`s, gonzales`s, degen`s, kronkamp`s, josemi`s, ferri`s, voronin`s, diarra`s, vignal`s etc etc etc coming to the club and contributing very little, i had hoped those days of packing our squad with average players was a thing of the past.

Couldn't have said it better myself and the last paragraph echoes exactly what I was about to write earlier today.

We don't want to go back to the dark days of spreading the nets far and wide bringing in deadwood with the hope we win the lottery with one of them. 

The reality is that good players do cost money (even young prospects) and although there is a risk still in spending 10, 15 or 20 million on one the chances of getting it wrong a far less then bringing in 4 or 5 players at 2 to 3 million each. We really can't hold on to the fear on what happened with Carroll, that was in the past and the people responsible have all been held accountable for that. We need to keep taking risks with larger sums of money on players rather then this safety rubbish of bringing in cheap players.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 27, 2013 10:16 pm wrote:

i`m just a bit fed up of seeing the dossena`s, diomede`s, ngog`s, assaidi`s, gonzales`s, degen`s, kronkamp`s, josemi`s, ferri`s, voronin`s, diarra`s, vignal`s etc etc etc coming to the club and contributing very little, i had hoped those days of packing our squad with average players was a thing of the past.

A few more you can add to that list: Babel, Kewell,Jovanovic, Aquilani, Joe Cole, Konchesky, Poulsen, Jones, Wilson, Sahin........ there's more but can't be f'd

Kewell & Aquilani could have been great but were less than average thanks to their hopeless injury records.

Hope Rodger's picks up on injury prone players quicker than Rafa.