Liverpool FC Forum

the return of HAS » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:59 pm wrote:People are talking as if lumping balls up to a target man is the only plan B in football. There are plenty of tactical changes you can make to try and change the course of a game. And if we really want to lump the ball into the box in the last 10 minutes we just stick Coates upfront to cause havoc.

This is a good point.

There is no doubt that BR will tweak things but the style will always pretty much be the same.

There is still a view with some British football fans that you need to be able to go more direct when things are not working out.  Its old fashioned and completely wrong!

This idea that we need to keep carroll so we can play more direct is laughable.

maguskwt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:58 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:31 pm wrote:if clint dempsey and borini are considered plan A then i dont see why carroll cant be as well

Borini, while he had made some mistakes, is alot more promising striker than Carroll. Already he has shown to be a better fit to the team and a better partner for Suarez. His movement is way better, his instinct is way better and he has more football IQ. On top of that he works his socks off like Kuyt.

As for Dempsey...He had scored like 14 and 20 goals in his previous 2 seasons for freakin Fulham...

dempsey should be doing well, at 29 he is in the prime of his career, he wont get better than he is now, it`s just a question of what rate his game drops off.
lets see what carroll is like when he`s 29.
borini is doing nothing that carroll cant do, carroll is probably better than him at holding up the ball, carroll is as good at winning the ball back off the opposition defenders (if not better) and i wouldnt say there would be much between to 2 in a sprint, maybe borini would shade it but he`s not particularly quick.
if we were buying walcott and tello i`d say yeah fair enough but borini and especially dempsey arent light years away from what carroll is.

celtic-red! » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:04 pm wrote:

the return of HAS » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:59 pm wrote:People are talking as if lumping balls up to a target man is the only plan B in football. There are plenty of tactical changes you can make to try and change the course of a game. And if we really want to lump the ball into the box in the last 10 minutes we just stick Coates upfront to cause havoc.

This is a good point.

There is no doubt that BR will tweak things but the style will always pretty much be the same.

There is still a view with some British football fans that you need to be able to go more direct when things are not working out.  Its old fashioned and completely wrong!

This idea that we need to keep carroll so we can play more direct is laughable.

who said anything about going direct? john aldridge was a target man who scored a lot of his goals with his head but did that late 80`s team play alehouse footy?
carroll is 23 and improving all the time, i think he could fit into this system as the central striker with the likes of suarez and gerrard (or sterling / assaidi)either side of him.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:13 pm wrote:

maguskwt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:58 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:31 pm wrote:if clint dempsey and borini are considered plan A then i dont see why carroll cant be as well

Borini, while he had made some mistakes, is alot more promising striker than Carroll. Already he has shown to be a better fit to the team and a better partner for Suarez. His movement is way better, his instinct is way better and he has more football IQ. On top of that he works his socks off like Kuyt.

As for Dempsey...He had scored like 14 and 20 goals in his previous 2 seasons for freakin Fulham...

dempsey should be doing well, at 29 he is in the prime of his career, he wont get better than he is now, it`s just a question of what rate his game drops off.
lets see what carroll is like when he`s 29.
borini is doing nothing that carroll cant do, carroll is probably better than him at holding up the ball, carroll is as good at winning the ball back off the opposition defenders (if not better) and i wouldnt say there would be much between to 2 in a sprint, maybe borini would shade it but he`s not particularly quick.
if we were buying walcott and tello i`d say yeah fair enough but borini and especially dempsey arent light years away from what carroll is.

you are assessing carroll's and borini's qualities isolated as if they're practicing with the ball alone. Do you see Borini's off the ball movement in the game? Against City, there were several times he was making runs and in acres of space and suarez didn't pass to him (which was why I was so critical of Suarez during that game). That header attempt that was created by Sterling needed alot of movement from Borini and he was unlucky not to score. Carroll will be miles away from that cross. Borini has the potential to be a fox in the box much like Insaghi... that's why I don't agree with how he is played on the right... I've been watching Carroll patiently, hoping he will improve... but his playing style is just depressing.

maguskwt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:23 pm

you are assessing carroll's and borini's qualities isolated as if they're practicing with the ball alone. Do you see Borini's off the ball movement in the game? Against City, there were several times he was making runs and in acres of space and suarez didn't pass to him (which was why I was so critical of Suarez during that game). That header attempt that was created by Sterling needed alot of movement from Borini and he was unlucky not to score. Carroll will be miles away from that cross. Borini has the potential to be a fox in the box much like Insaghi... that's why I don't agree with how he is played on the right... I've been watching Carroll patiently, hoping he will improve... but his playing style is just depressing.

it shows how closely you watch the games when you think that sidefooted finish of borini`s from sterlings cross was an attempted header!
it`s just a falicy to say carroll doesnt get into goalscoring positions, he missed quite a few of those types of chances last season himself (like that downing cross he volleyed onto the crossbar against swansea at home, or that header early on in the second half of the semi final against everton, or that chance against norwich in the last few seconds of the game at anfield, or a similar chance against blackburn at home etc etc).
i actually think borini would be better suited to be playing next to a carroll type player, an individualist type player like suarez playing in the middle of a 3 doesnt suit borini`s game, suarez is too unpredictable to read.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:17 pm wrote:

celtic-red! » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:04 pm wrote:

the return of HAS » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:59 pm wrote:People are talking as if lumping balls up to a target man is the only plan B in football. There are plenty of tactical changes you can make to try and change the course of a game. And if we really want to lump the ball into the box in the last 10 minutes we just stick Coates upfront to cause havoc.

This is a good point.

There is no doubt that BR will tweak things but the style will always pretty much be the same.

There is still a view with some British football fans that you need to be able to go more direct when things are not working out.  Its old fashioned and completely wrong!

This idea that we need to keep carroll so we can play more direct is laughable.

who said anything about going direct? john aldridge was a target man who scored a lot of his goals with his head but did that late 80`s team play alehouse footy?
carroll is 23 and improving all the time, i think he could fit into this system as the central striker with the likes of suarez and gerrard (or sterling / assaidi)either side of him.

my point is aimed @ the people who keep using Fellani vs man utd display as a reason why we should keep carroll.

West Ham are buying Sulejmani so that's possibly one avenue closed

We need to listen more carefully to what Rodgers is saying...

Its not that he doesn't like Carroll.  Perhaps Rodgers also thinks he makes a good plan B.
But what he said is that we cant afford a 35M striker, probably on decent wages, being a 3rd choice or EL player.

maguskwt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:21 pm wrote:I just don't understand what people sees in carroll. Even lukaku seems more of a threat than Carroll Ffs. All I see when caroll plays is jumping and executing half headers which is most of the time not on target. If Carroll needs so much confidence to play decent, he's not gonna get there seeing he's not starting games. It is better to cut the losses and reinvest in a striker that will be able to play BR's system. Look at how Allen had made such a significant impact to the team...

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

I like Carroll and think he's useful. Would be good as an alternative and he does have potential. Question is can we just keep him when we need to raise funds? Sadly think he needs to be sacrificed. He could have been awesome for us.

Benny The Noon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:03 am wrote:@BenSmithBBC: Andy Carroll resolved to stay at #LFC and prove himself despite the club's attempts to move him on. http://t.co/h0cacqKM

Good lad !

Might be good for him but it's not good for the club, do you support Carroll or LFC??

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:31 pm wrote:if clint dempsey and borini are considered plan A then i dont see why carroll cant be as well

erm becuase he's sh!te striker??

Seriosuly Carroll was possibly one fo the worst pieces of business this club have ever done, yes he played ok towards the end of the season but the rest of the season he was embarassing to say the least. I still don't rate him and if Brendan says he has to go then he has to go, I have more faith in Brendan than any of you armchair pundits.

Thommo's perm » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:22 pm wrote:

maguskwt » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:21 pm wrote:I just don't understand what people sees in carroll. Even lukaku seems more of a threat than Carroll Ffs. All I see when caroll plays is jumping and executing half headers which is most of the time not on target. If Carroll needs so much confidence to play decent, he's not gonna get there seeing he's not starting games. It is better to cut the losses and reinvest in a striker that will be able to play BR's system. Look at how Allen had made such a significant impact to the team...

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

Great post 

heimdall » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:41 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:03 am wrote:@BenSmithBBC: Andy Carroll resolved to stay at #LFC and prove himself despite the club's attempts to move him on. http://t.co/h0cacqKM

Good lad !

Might be good for him but it's not good for the club, do you support Carroll or LFC??

Coming from you that's quite amusing - you have to be the most fickle "fan" in living memory.

Still want Rafa back or is it Kenny or Hodgson or are you a Manc fan this week

Benny The Noon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:56 pm wrote:

heimdall » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:41 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:03 am wrote:@BenSmithBBC: Andy Carroll resolved to stay at #LFC and prove himself despite the club's attempts to move him on. http://t.co/h0cacqKM

Good lad !

Might be good for him but it's not good for the club, do you support Carroll or LFC??

Coming from you that's quite amusing - you have to be the most fickle "fan" in living memory.

Still want Rafa back or is it Kenny or Hodgson or are you a Manc fan this week

Never ever been a Manc fan, or indeed a fan of any other premiership team so I'd like an apology for that!!

As for Kenny and Hodgson I supported them up to the point where I realised they were not what the club needed, in Hodgsons case that realisation came very very quickly!

I don't think I've said one bad thing about Brendan so not sure where you get the fickle thing from.

As for Rafa I think he would have been a huge improvement over Kenny but now that Brendan is here I actually love what he is saying and doing and I see a lot of similarities between them, long term I think the owners have made a brilliant choice.

As for Carroll, I did say that he could be an ok squad player but if Brendan wants rid of him, and his reasoning for it is very sound imo, then he has my full backing, plus I think that Carroll is ultimately a very limited striker who probably won't improve much from the level he is currently at.