Liverpool FC Forum

by **celtic-red!** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:03 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:33 am wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jul/30/andy-carroll-west-ham-liverpool?

You fucking tell em Big Man .....

Something really stinks about this ,and I'm blaming the owners .

I know yourself and others want Carroll to stay but look @ it from BR's view and the club. We have a player who BR blatantly would rather not have so what is the point of keeping him?

Its all good people saying carroll improved etc etc but your not picking the team. If the manager does not want him then its best for everyone that he moves on. If he stays he will not be playing in the first XI. He already knows the manager is not a fan so him staying is just a bad idea.

Also why did KD and DC push his wages up from £20,000 per week to £90,000 per week?

That was utter madness and should have never been allowed to happen!

by **aCe'** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:51 am

LFC2007 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:18 am wrote:
aCe' » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:27 pm wrote:
Consistently he hasn't. Even for Uruguay (where he has been used in a wide role a few times) he was never as effective as he has been in the central role. Uruguay had the problem of trying to fit 3 top strikers (Forlan was quality at the time) and tried Suarez down the flank to achieve that. Soon they realized it wasnt as effective and started either playing Forlan in a more reserved role behind Suarez and Cavani or playing Forlan/Suarez without Cavani. Worked out pretty well for them.

As for Ajax, I havent watched all their games but from what I've seen his last year or two when he shined for them, he was always played in a central role.

How were you able watch him play during his last year or two with Ajax, whilsting watching us at the same time as watching Seria 'A', La Liga, international football etc.?

I believe he has consistently play wide in a 4-3-3 for Ajax (if I could be ar'sed I might check), and for Uruguay, although it isn't the be all and end all if he hasn't. All it would really mean if he has is that other managers have thought him capable in that role and that he's probably got a fair understanding of the position. If he hasn't, then it's not to say that he couldn't be utilised there to good effect for us. I see Suarez as a very versatile player. To play wide in a 4-3-3, you need a little more pace than if you're playing central and you need to know when to move inside to pick the ball up, but it's not like playing wide in a 4-4-2. In a 4-3-3, with the extra midfielder in behind and the full backs bombing forward, there is more opportunity to drift into central positions and cause problems from there. Even if turns out not to be his best position, as long as it maximises the team's potential, that's all that matters. It's definitely something worth considering, in my opinion.

2 interesting things you mention there..

1) What do you think his best position is ? Surely when you have a player who is as good as Suarez, you have to play him in his best position to get the best out of him. The only logical reason I can think of for us to possibly move him would be us signing another top striker and Rodgers insisting on going ahead with the 4-3-3. Which brings me to the 2nd point.

2) Talking about maximizing the team's potential, isnt this assumption based (almost entirely) on the hope of Borini hitting the ground running and proving a 20 goals a season sort of striker ? Because if not, then Suarez (and please do let me know if you dont agree with this) is the best striker we have, and probably the best wide forward we have. Saying that him playing the wide role maximises our potential is essentially saying that Borini is a considerably better forward than Bellamy/Downing are as wide forwards. I hope that makes sense.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:31 am

While I do feel that Carroll has impressed last season, too much had been spent on him hence he deserves a chance to prove himself and try to fit in with the new style of play, at the very least for another season. Plus he did improve a lot towards the end of the season. Players like Downing, Spearing and Adam are the ones that needs shipping ahead of Carroll.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:21 am

celtic-red! » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:03 am wrote:
I know yourself and others want Carroll to stay but look @ it from BR's view and the club. We have a player who BR blatantly would rather not have so what is the point of keeping him?

Its all good people saying carroll improved etc etc but your not picking the team. If the manager does not want him then its best for everyone that he moves on. If he stays he will not be playing in the first XI. He already knows the manager is not a fan so him staying is just a bad idea.

Also why did KD and DC push his wages up from £20,000 per week to £90,000 per week?

That was utter madness and should have never been allowed to happen!

If he is sold and we get some yard dog like Dempsey would you not consider this Rodgers diluting his ideals somewhat ? Although when and where exactly the manager stated Carroll wasn't part of his plans still has me flummoxed (maybe it was just the Scottish papers ? ).

I will be extremely disappointed in Rodgers if he gets rid of Andy ,because all it will show is that the owners now dictate who we show the door ,and who we
welcome in draped in fucking "Stars and Stripes" :no

by **Boocity** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:22 am

SS are saying West Ham deny any agreement

by **ethanr** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:26 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:21 pm wrote:
celtic-red! » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:03 am wrote:
I know yourself and others want Carroll to stay but look @ it from BR's view and the club. We have a player who BR blatantly would rather not have so what is the point of keeping him?

Its all good people saying carroll improved etc etc but your not picking the team. If the manager does not want him then its best for everyone that he moves on. If he stays he will not be playing in the first XI. He already knows the manager is not a fan so him staying is just a bad idea.

Also why did KD and DC push his wages up from £20,000 per week to £90,000 per week?

That was utter madness and should have never been allowed to happen!

If he is sold and we get some yard dog like Dempsey would you not consider this Rodgers diluting his ideals somewhat ? Although when and where exactly the manager stated Carroll wasn't part of his plans still has me flummoxed (maybe it was just the Scottish papers ? ).

I will be extremely disappointed in Rodgers if he gets rid of Andy ,because all it will show is that the owners now dictate who we show the door ,and who we
welcome in draped in fucking "Stars and Stripes"

The thing is if Rogers believed he was a player we could use, the owners would be thrilled that the investment could turn around. If he goes it's because Rogers feels he'd rather get rid and reinvest than to hold on. Rogers has always spoken slightly different about Carroll than any other player. He said things to show Andy some respect without lying to the fans and saying we would for sure be keeping him, because he knew that if he could get rid at a good value than it would be worth it.

by **The Raven** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:44 am

O FFS sake, here we go....Something goes wrong blame everyone else other than the Manager. I thought we might have moved on.

Im sure there is an evil FSG plot to lose money on Andy. Im sure these mnoney grabbing "YANKS" are really enjoying the loss of 15m quid. Grow up, Rodgers wants money, he isnt fussed on trying to mould Carroll into the player he wants so hes now for sale. DEAL WITH IT! Im not happy one bit about selling Andy but make no mistake this is Brandons doing not FSGs

This is unless you dont like the manager then everything is his faults. Roy brought all the bad players and sold all the good ones ect.

Keane flops, Rafa never wanted him he was forced on him.

Torres is a Legand, Rafa is a Hero and a mastermind.

The Owl signs Raul Meireles but no it wasnt him as hes good it must have been Rafa!

All other Owl signings turn out bad so therefore are all down to him.

Kenny signs Luis! a great player,

Then Comolli ***** up and signs carroll downing and adam, Kenny knows nothing about the fee.

Now Brandon pucks a young forward from Italy stealing him for very little in a quick move

However FSG force him to sell Carroll and buy Dempsey.

:help

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:07 am

bowolf42 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 pm wrote:
Roger Red Hat » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:40 pm wrote:
bowolf42 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:35 pm wrote:Rodgers has handled this situation atrociously, never, ever, should have spouted off about letting him go out on loan and shoud have kept his own counsel until he spoke to the lad personally, really disappointed with him and I am not sure Mourinho would have handled it so badly so he has not learnt that much, 150 page manual? not got a section on how to deal with players Brendan?

clueless ^

Clueless. In what way you Yorkshire tw@t?

no need to explain you did a good enough job first time. :no

by **Kenny Kan** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:18 am

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:21 am wrote:
celtic-red! » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:03 am wrote:
I know yourself and others want Carroll to stay but look @ it from BR's view and the club. We have a player who BR blatantly would rather not have so what is the point of keeping him?

Its all good people saying carroll improved etc etc but your not picking the team. If the manager does not want him then its best for everyone that he moves on. If he stays he will not be playing in the first XI. He already knows the manager is not a fan so him staying is just a bad idea.

Also why did KD and DC push his wages up from £20,000 per week to £90,000 per week?

That was utter madness and should have never been allowed to happen!

If he is sold and we get some yard dog like Dempsey would you not consider this Rodgers diluting his ideals somewhat ? Although when and where exactly the manager stated Carroll wasn't part of his plans still has me flummoxed (maybe it was just the Scottish papers ? ).

I will be extremely disappointed in Rodgers if he gets rid of Andy ,because all it will show is that the owners now dictate who we show the door ,and who we
welcome in draped in fucking "Stars and Stripes"

I have to say mate, that is a lot of conjecture and speculation spoken as though it were fact [re-FSG]. I'm now not personally sure of them and their methodologies and intentions. But I believe this saga re-Carroll has been perpetuated by Rodgers and nobody else; forget the praises he's given Andy over the last week or so, other than that he's insinuated Andy could leave if the right offer came in. He's batting from both sides, and IMO, he's making a bit of mockery the situation Andy now finds himself in.

by **NorfolkRed** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:18 am

Wish people would stop over-reacting to baseless speculation in the press. React away to facts by all means - nothing wrong with some healthy debate - but some of the stuff being spouted on here is laughable. I thought the papers were bad with their stories that are completely devoid of verifiable fact. Seeing a lot of stuff about what our manager wants and doesnt want when, as far as a i can find, he's said nothing of the sort.

Let's have a quote to go with points being raised or it belongs in the rumour threads.

by **Boxscarf** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:27 am

Every summer this club is involved in a transfer-media-ridden-merry-dance and it's highly annoying and if Brendan Rodgers doesn't want Andy Carroll then I would expect him not to lead Andy down the garden path. I think most people know that Andy is a talented footballer and that he is highly unlikely to fit into Brendan's own brand of pass-pass-pass football, so we don't need half baked truths sprinkled with mass hysteria from Murdoch's evil and callous organisation. I think as a club we don't treat our footballers very well, Andy hasn't put a foot wrong since he has arrived here. Already he hasn't justified his price-tag, but that doesn't give this club the right to drag Andy's ponytail through excrement and if I was Rodgers I'd be worried about Agger's future, but it appears Mancini is hell bent on getting Daniel Agger.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:31 am

Listen there is no smoke without fire and I suspect negotiations with both West Ham and Newcastle are happening.

I personally thought that Carroll would go if a purchase was agreed, I never saw the benefit in a loan when we are currently short of Strikers. I previously thought that unless a buyer was agreed Carroll would stay.

I think this has changed now, the loan looks like it will happen. If it does, it suggests that Rodgers really sees no benefit in Carroll staying, and as such is looking to loan him out to at least give him playing time to hold some market value. Sitting on the bench here all season will only erode his value further.

by **mart** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:18 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:21 am wrote:
I will be extremely disappointed in Rodgers if he gets rid of Andy ,because all it will show is that the owners now dictate who we show the door ,and who we
welcome in draped in fucking "Stars and Stripes"

B-rod has given every indication that he is more than willing to sell Carroll if we get a decent offer. Its not a secret FSG conspiracy, its just the manager that wants another type of striker than Andy. They might have told him that Andy is too expensive to sit on the bench, so we have to sell him to buy another striker that fits into Rodgers plans.

B-rod convinced FSG to abandon the plan to hire sporting directors, he wont let them control the transfers.

by **bowolf42** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:35 pm

clueless ^[/quote]

Clueless. In what way you Yorkshire tw@t?[/quote]

no need to explain you did a good enough job first time. :no

[/quote]

Oh, thought I could express an opinion without some keyboard warrior just dismissing it with just one word, grow up mate and if you disagree with someone else's point of view have the good manners to say why instead of acting like a knob

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:38 pm

bowolf42 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:35 am wrote:
Oh, thought I could express an opinion without some keyboard warrior just dismissing it with just one word, grow up mate and if you disagree with someone else's point of view have the good manners to say why instead of acting like a knob

Liverpool FC Forum

Andy Carroll signs for West Ham

Who is online