Liverpool FC Forum

desmdlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:54 pm wrote:Why did we buy him in the first place, if there are no plans for him at all? Let alone at a price tag of 35 million? I find it very contradicting...
Does the Owners know what they want? Or they are just ill-advised by certain individual? Confused..

Read the previous 272 pages mate, its all there.

desmdlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:54 am wrote:Why did we buy him in the first place, if there are no plans for him at all? Let alone at a price tag of 35 million? I find it very contradicting...
Does the Owners know what they want? Or they are just ill-advised by certain individual? Confused..

it was panic, nothing else. with torres slapping in a transfer request 24 hours before the deadline we felt we had to get a replacement in otherwise we'd have had suarez (who was new to the league at the time) and kuyt as strikers for the remainder of the season. there's no doubt both us and newcastle would have valued the player at £15-20 million at the time but with £50m burning our pocket from the torres deal newcastle knew that had us in an ideal position to drive the price up. they turned down £30m originally but accepted £35m.

stmichael » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:10 am wrote:

desmdlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:54 am wrote:Why did we buy him in the first place, if there are no plans for him at all? Let alone at a price tag of 35 million? I find it very contradicting...
Does the Owners know what they want? Or they are just ill-advised by certain individual? Confused..

it was panic, nothing else. with torres slapping in a transfer request 24 hours before the deadline we felt we had to get a replacement in otherwise we'd have had suarez (who was new to the league at the time) and kuyt as strikers for the remainder of the season. there's no doubt both us and newcastle would have valued the player at £15-20 million at the time but with £50m burning our pocket from the torres deal newcastle knew that had us in an ideal position to drive the price up. they turned down £30m originally but accepted £35m.

It has to be the worst idea for a panic buy ever as he was injured and we knew he would be unavailable for most of the remaining games.

stmichael » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:10 am wrote:

desmdlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:54 am wrote:Why did we buy him in the first place, if there are no plans for him at all? Let alone at a price tag of 35 million? I find it very contradicting...
Does the Owners know what they want? Or they are just ill-advised by certain individual? Confused..

it was panic, nothing else. with torres slapping in a transfer request 24 hours before the deadline we felt we had to get a replacement in otherwise we'd have had suarez (who was new to the league at the time) and kuyt as strikers for the remainder of the season. there's no doubt both us and newcastle would have valued the player at £15-20 million at the time but with £50m burning our pocket from the torres deal newcastle knew that had us in an ideal position to drive the price up. they turned down £30m originally but accepted £35m.

spurs didnt help the situation either by putting a £27m bid in when it looked like newcastle would have accepted £25m
what is it with spurs and our transfer targets?

Stop posting then[/quote]

Seriously why arent you banned FK off[/quote]

Please refrain from swearing - its not big , its not clever and your mummy wont like you doing it.[/quote]

I'm not sure that Richard was actually swearing? HE WAS GIVING YOU A CLEAR AND CONCISE INSTRUCTION THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING! 

Sky reporting hes been told he is not part of Rodgers plans but hes refusing to move
out a permananent deal and will only consider a loan.

Trouble is the lad is only a short way through a lucrative 5 year deal with us and his
home town team wont pay him as well if he moves back permanently. Loan suits as
he gets best of both worlds.

Our own fault again giving out stupid contracts and we are looking at another Acqualini
situation here unless they can sort something out.

parchpea » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:03 pm wrote:Sky reporting hes been told he is not part of Rodgers plans but hes refusing to move
out a permananent deal and will only consider a loan.

Trouble is the lad is only a short way through a lucrative 5 year deal with us and his
home town team wont pay him as well if he moves back permanently. Loan suits as
he gets best of both worlds.

Our own fault again giving out stupid contracts and we are looking at another Acqualini
situation here unless they can sort something out.

Loan move doesnt work for us because we need funds to buy a replacement for Carroll

Benny The Noon » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:03 am wrote:

parchpea » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:03 pm wrote:Sky reporting hes been told he is not part of Rodgers plans but hes refusing to move
out a permananent deal and will only consider a loan.

Trouble is the lad is only a short way through a lucrative 5 year deal with us and his
home town team wont pay him as well if he moves back permanently. Loan suits as
he gets best of both worlds.

Our own fault again giving out stupid contracts and we are looking at another Acqualini
situation here unless they can sort something out.

Loan move doesnt work for us because we need funds to buy a replacement for Carroll

But at the same time if he went out on loan and played as well as he did at the end of last season consistently, his value would go up.  I feel £20 million wouldn't be very hard to get from him if that did happen.

ethanr » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:03 am wrote:

parchpea » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:03 pm wrote:Sky reporting hes been told he is not part of Rodgers plans but hes refusing to move
out a permananent deal and will only consider a loan.

Trouble is the lad is only a short way through a lucrative 5 year deal with us and his
home town team wont pay him as well if he moves back permanently. Loan suits as
he gets best of both worlds.

Our own fault again giving out stupid contracts and we are looking at another Acqualini
situation here unless they can sort something out.

Loan move doesnt work for us because we need funds to buy a replacement for Carroll

But at the same time if he went out on loan and played as well as he did at the end of last season consistently, his value would go up.  I feel £20 million wouldn't be very hard to get from him if that did happen.

And what happens inbetween now and 12 months down the line when their is a slim possiblty his value will increase ( it wont we all know that )

ethanr » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:09 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:03 am wrote:

parchpea » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:03 pm wrote:Sky reporting hes been told he is not part of Rodgers plans but hes refusing to move
out a permananent deal and will only consider a loan.

Trouble is the lad is only a short way through a lucrative 5 year deal with us and his
home town team wont pay him as well if he moves back permanently. Loan suits as
he gets best of both worlds.

Our own fault again giving out stupid contracts and we are looking at another Acqualini
situation here unless they can sort something out.

Loan move doesnt work for us because we need funds to buy a replacement for Carroll

But at the same time if he went out on loan and played as well as he did at the end of last season consistently, his value would go up.  I feel £20 million wouldn't be very hard to get from him if that did happen.

2 points

By the news we are reading the loan is with a view to a permanent move with the fee set already, the amount being quoted so far is 13 million Newcastle offered and we want 20 (supposedly)
So how does a loan benefit us in any way, other than possibly getting part of his wages off our wage bill.

the second point is, even if there is no figure agreed for a permanent deal, like Benny has said how often does the value of a player increase ?

It's a lose all round situation for me.

I dont want him to go at all but if Rodgers doesnt fancy him there is no way we should consider a loan to anyone.
We have been stung time and again in the past with that.
Diao and Aquilani to name 2.

Summed up perfectly - there is no way Carroll going on loan benefits us and his value won't increase

Well if we cannot raise funds through Carroll then they may have to offload
a couple of others.

Downing is a name that springs to mind but god knows what Comolli agreed
to pay him, I dread to think 

This signing has been a disaster from day 1. Ridiculous fee paid for a player who was flavour of the month and not even worth half of what we paid. It took him more than 6 months to get in shape last year. I’m sorry but any professional sports person with the right guidance and dedication can do it 2 months. A couple of good games at the end of the season and a header in the Euros and all of a sudden he is our saviour?! His movement is of Sunday league quality and his touch isn’t much better than Carragher’s.

And why does Rodgers have to see him in training or give him some games before making a call? It’s not as though he is a youngster or an unknown quantity from some far away country. I’m guessing Rodgers knows a fair bit about him after setting up teams against him both in the Championship and the Premier League, and has carried out detailed video analysis. Every new manager will have players he fancies and those that don’t so I think I’ll give my backing to Rodgers rather than Carroll who has failed miserably over the last 18 months and who the last management tried to offload in January. 

I agree that a loan wouldn’t make sense. Get whatever we can for him, buy a replacement and put this ugly chapter behind us.

Good hope the window shuts and he is still here at some point he will get a game and show the boss what he can do

desmdlow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:54 am wrote:Why did we buy him in the first place, if there are no plans for him at all? Let alone at a price tag of 35 million? I find it very contradicting...
Does the Owners know what they want? Or they are just ill-advised by certain individual? Confused..

It was the most baffling transfer in the history of English football, so no one actually knows. If there is one transfer i would like an enquiry into its that one. It is the decision that destroyed Kenny's second tenure at the club. Within only days of him doing the deal (and the player not having kicked a ball yet) he was having to justify it.. "we bought him for 5 years not 5 months".

Nothing makes sense.

1.Our season was over and we had nothing to fight for, so no urgency required.
2.We had just brought in one striker (Suarez), so losing one (Torres) cancelled that out.
3.He was injured when he was bought...which makes the rush that even bit more bizarre.
4.We paid 35 million pounds for a player who 18 months prior was available for 2 million. He spent one year in the dean windass championship, and had half a season playing in the Premier League with a direct long ball team that catered to his style, and then we forked out 35 million, on a 15 million pound player, to make him the 7th most expensive player in the history of the sport.
5.We allowed a temporary manager to spend 35 million on a player. What if the new manager doesnt like him? (as has now happened). Yes they were new to the sport and they didn't know their way round, but this was shocking mismanagement from the owners. Kenny has no such excuse.

None of it made an ounce of sense, not one bit of it. The day of the signing i recall seeing "Liverpool have 30 million pound bid for Andy Carroll rejected" on the Sky Sports News ticker.. paused in total disbelief, and praying to god that was the end of it. To then see 35 million bid accepted was twilight zone stuff. The feeling of deflation hit me instantly as i knew we had consigned ourselves to mediocrity. We signed a player who plays a direct unsucessful style of play, and by spending so much on an average player made it harder for future dealings with clubs (Downing 20 million, Henderson 18 million).


Having said all of that, i think it would now be premature to get rid without having even given him a run out in the current set up. Personally i dont think hes good enough to play in a side that plays in a successful manner (pass and move) as his game is reliant toward a direct lower premier league standard of play.