Liverpool FC Forum

Moores didn't get that Kuyt money back.

He said so himself.

And it was also confirmed in the accounts. It was just a loan.

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:31 pm wrote:

Moores didn't get that Kuyt money back.

He said so himself.

Did he ?

Ok well for years the club was financed by the Moores families money - Littlewoods.

All in the form of loans and equity. I doubt they put a penny into the club that they didn’t get back.

I terms of Tony Fernandes it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the money going into the club is in the form of loans from him that will be paid back in full. This is what he apparently did with Air Asia and completely turned them around. He’s trying to build a new stadium and improve commercial revenue. He’ll probably sell in 5-10 years and make a very tidy profit.

Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:19 pm"]

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:02 am wrote:

friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm wrote:By the way folks Rodgers has given an interview to the Independent on this link-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/brendan-rodgers-prepared-for-four-years-in-wilderness-with-liverpool-7936378.html

the yanks arent even giving this fella a fighting chance to succeed, .

Cashflow.[/quote]

A lot of people don’t realise that the board are still cleaning up the financial mess created under the last ownership. FSG gave the club a 30 million interest free loan last year to help with cash flow. The biggest problem still is that the wage bill is far too high considering our revenue.[/quote]

all that would have been sorted by the banks before fsg took hold.they bought the club for a snip and left us debt free.
they have already slashed the wage bill considerably since they came in by letting players go and then gutted the admin,combine that with the lucrative sponsorship deals they have secured id say the books are pretty healthy.
our problem with the cowboys was that they were fleecing the club with loans and the interest they were charging.
i would also doubt we have any more than 2-3 on 100+ a week.
according to forbes magazines list of richest football clubs compiled in april this year,we lie 8th valued at $619mil with a yearly revenue of $295mil.only the chavs,arsenal and manure earn more than us so i dont see any reason why we cant compete for a higher calibre player than what we are currently looking at.
at the moment we seem to be looking for maximum return from minimal investment over 5 years.
if the real money we need to compete can only be got from revenue's generated by the club then we need to invest quality players into the side to make the cl and start the stadium. atm they are dragging their heels on both.

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:30 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:11 pm wrote:

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:49 pm wrote:
A lot of people don’t realise that the board are still cleaning up the financial mess created under the last ownership. FSG gave the club a 30 million interest free loan last year to help with cash flow. The biggest problem still is that the wage bill is far too high considering our revenue.

according to fans who follow this stuff closely they apparently bought the club on the cheap.
the money for the carroll, hendo etc deals came largely from the sales of torres, babel, ngog etc.
they apparently put £30m of their own money in but we saved a similar amount on players wages so they are about even.
if they want us to be successfull they have got to back their man with some big money, we arent going to realistically catch the teams above us by spending £8m and £9m here and there on 21 and 22 year olds from mid table teams.
at this moment in time we still have enough big names at the club to attract other big name players, if we sign another 2 players of suarez`s quality we can still be in the mix. the odds of a manager bridging the gap to the teams above us by spending less than those sides are very very long.
if they are serious about making us a top side again they will give rodgers at least a fighting chance by giving him some money, they appointed the fella the least they can do is back him. this 4 year plan is f**king pie in the sky, rodgers knows it as well.

Yes I know all that. I know that the club was bought on the cheap. The money they put into the club for cash flow was only a loan which will be paid back in full. All the money that we have received from outgoing transfers has gone into incoming transfers and despite the inflated wage bill the club was still able to set aside something like 30Mil from revenue (excluding incoming transfers) for transfer last summer.

FSG never promised or even hinted they would use their own money for transfers, in fact they clearly stated the opposite. They said the club must be self sufficient.

The aim isn’t to win the title next season. The aim is to improve and compete for a top 4 finish and we can do that by spending the sort of cash that is rumoured to be available this summer (£25-30million, excluding players sales)

We didn’t have to break the bank to get players like Skrtel, Lucus, Arbeloa, Agger, Reina, Alonso, etc, but they are players that are good enough to play in title winning teams. I’m really not worried about signing really expensive players. What we need is the right blend of players that fit with the managers style of play.

it aint going to happen mate, we arent going to bridge the gap to the top clubs doing that, for every player you`ve listed there that was a success we had about 5 that werent. all this right blend of players malarky is just another soundbyte that sounds good.
this plan is a huge longshot and rodgers knows it himself, he said in his opening press conference that he was a realist and he`s telling us straight today.
i agree with him, i think if he doesnt get decent money to spend he wont be here to see his plan come to fruition.
you seem to be putting an awful lot of belief in the manager. dont forget he`s been managing less than 4 years, in his first season in charge of a club at watford he had a terrible start winning about 2 of his first 10 games, he was in the relegation zone for half the season but managed to get them to a 13th place finish, his next job was at reading where he got the sack because results were so poor and granted he`s done well at swansea over the past couple of seasons but it`s not as if he swept aside all before him, he took swansea up through the play off`s and that was the season neil warnock won the title with QPR, neil warnock is hardly alex ferguson.
i like the fella`s personality but i`ve not seen anything yet that justify`s many peoples blind faith in this almost mythical `system` thats going to bridge a huge gap in terms of quality of players and resources. i havent seen anything yet that convinces me that he can get the better of the likes of ferguson, wenger, mancini etc by spending less than them. we dont even know how he`s going to react to pressure, some of his press conferences seem to be a bit odd (like that one today) and he hasnt even started getting bad results yet.
it isnt £1.20 to get into the kop no more mate, you cant expect people to pay £50 notes every other week and not let frustration get the better of them waiting for mid table 21 year old players to develop into top players 4 years later. fans will be putting pressure on the manager if we spend the next 4 years out of the CL as he alluded to today.

Everybody unrealistically expected Kenny to perform miracles and in the end the pressure was too much and he failed to deliver. Rodgers is going out of his way to sensibly manage both club and supporter expectations and personally I think he is right to do so. Let's face it Andy Carroll during the majority of his Liverpool career has been an abject failure. After the away match at Newcastle late in the season Andy was reminded in no uncertain terms what his once adoring fans actually thought of him and that appeared to bring closure and wake the lad up. Since that match Andy has shown a lot more promise and contributed massively towards us getting to the final of the FA Cup.He is a serious threat to any opposing team but is he good enough to regularly score goals at the highest level against quality teams.I'm not surprised that Brendan wants to take a serious look at all the possible options before blindly accepting that Andy is the answer after Andy actually decided to get off his backside after fifteen months and start doing some reasonable but far from world beating work.

I really don't understand all this Carroll leaving talk.

We are finally seeing him start to look something like what we thought we bought.  He has obviously taken a long time to settle, so what value is there in loaning him out?

It will unsettle him again, knock his confidence and take him backwards.  It will also take us back to the same number of strikers, despite signing Borini (if that happens as it looks like it will).

If BR does not want him then the only option would be a sale for a decent sum of money, in my view well over £20m.

For me, you have to give him time to prove himself, and not just jetison him from the club when he is finally settling in.

devaney » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:26 am wrote:Everybody unrealistically expected Kenny to perform miracles and in the end the pressure was too much and he failed to deliver. Rodgers is going out of his way to sensibly manage both club and supporter expectations and personally I think he is right to do so. Let's face it Andy Carroll during the majority of his Liverpool career has been an abject failure. After the away match at Newcastle late in the season Andy was reminded in no uncertain terms what his once adoring fans actually thought of him and that appeared to bring closure and wake the lad up. Since that match Andy has shown a lot more promise and contributed massively towards us getting to the final of the FA Cup.He is a serious threat to any opposing team but is he good enough to regularly score goals at the highest level against quality teams.I'm not surprised that Brendan wants to take a serious look at all the possible options before blindly accepting that Andy is the answer after Andy actually decided to get off his backside after fifteen months and start doing some reasonable but far from world beating work.

thats an urban myth that he started playing well after that newcastle game, carroll started to turn the corner ironically during one of our worst performances of the season away at bolton in january (the game were kenny flipped out and ripped the side in an interview on the telly), he set up our goal and in the first half especially he was our best player, from then on in he gradually got better and better. he then scored against oldham in the cup despite being on the pitch for about 2 minutes.
after that he was probably our MoM against united in the F.A  cup win at anfield (which was a huge game because of all the fallout from the suarez / evra thing) and backed that performance up with a goal away at wolves, after that he was probably MoM again against brighton when we battered them at anfield (he got a goal in that one too). he got quite a bit of praise for his performance in the 0-0 against spurs at anfield but then kenny dropped him for 3 games which we lost (united away, arsenal home, sunderland away).
kenny brought him back for the derby game at anfield which had a lot of pressure on it because we hadnt lost 4 games on the trot since the 1950`s and everton were flying, they actually went into the game as favourites but we put on a tremendous performance, gerrard got all the headlines but carroll and suarez were the ones that gave the everton defence nightmares.
the next game was the newcastle game which wasnt his finest hour but people forget how well he started that match, he hit the bar with a header and was involved in that scramble that should have seen us awarded a penalty and one of their players sent off. even the dive came after a tremendous bit of work by carroll who was taking the newcastle defence on on his own.
as we know he kicked on again after the newcastle game and finished the season like a juggernaut.
i agree with you when you say he wasnt exactly prolific but he was improving and he was contributing to the team with his all round performances.
plus he was starting to have a habit of scoring or being MoM (or being close to being MoM) in big games - the derby at goodison, the huge F.A cup game against united which was probably the most hyped game in english footy in decades (the build up was on the national news ffs), the derby at anfield when we werent favourites, the F.A  cup semi final ( because so much has happened since with kenny going and brendan coming in we forget how big this was at the time, it was the biggest derby in a quarter of a century and felt like a CL final watching it), the F.A  cup final and then 3 days later the league game against the european champions.
around the time we played chelsea everyone watched barcelona struggle at home to break down a 10 man chelsea team with a makeshift defence but twice in 4 days carroll ripped them to shreds.
he`s not the easiest on the eye but the big f**ker is effective. he gives even the best defenders a tough game.
i think the dissapointing thing for me is that he doesnt even seem to be given a chance, in that game for england against sweden not only did he score possibly one of the best headers of all time he grafted his f**king @rse off, he ran near 12km in that game, only the 2 centre mids covered more ground. not only that his tracking back and tackling back was becoming a big feature of his game, he was constantly sliding in on midfielders and defenders who hestitated on the ball and how many times did he make blocks or heroic headers in defence?
i think getting rid of him is a mistake, and whats worse he`s not long turned 23, he`s got a lot of improvement in him yet and he`s better on the floor than people give him credit for too, plus the big f##ker has got a lot of heart and we havent got too many players like that in our squad, too many of them start looking at their bootlaces when things start going wrong like in the league game at old trafford or the F.A cup final.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:46 am wrote:

devaney » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:26 am wrote:Everybody unrealistically expected Kenny to perform miracles and in the end the pressure was too much and he failed to deliver. Rodgers is going out of his way to sensibly manage both club and supporter expectations and personally I think he is right to do so. Let's face it Andy Carroll during the majority of his Liverpool career has been an abject failure. After the away match at Newcastle late in the season Andy was reminded in no uncertain terms what his once adoring fans actually thought of him and that appeared to bring closure and wake the lad up. Since that match Andy has shown a lot more promise and contributed massively towards us getting to the final of the FA Cup.He is a serious threat to any opposing team but is he good enough to regularly score goals at the highest level against quality teams.I'm not surprised that Brendan wants to take a serious look at all the possible options before blindly accepting that Andy is the answer after Andy actually decided to get off his backside after fifteen months and start doing some reasonable but far from world beating work.

thats an urban myth that he started playing well after that newcastle game, carroll started to turn the corner ironically during one of our worst performances of the season away at bolton in january (the game were kenny flipped out and ripped the side in an interview on the telly), he set up our goal and in the first half especially he was our best player, from then on in he gradually got better and better. he then scored against oldham in the cup despite being on the pitch for about 2 minutes.
after that he was probably our MoM against united in the F.A  cup win at anfield (which was a huge game because of all the fallout from the suarez / evra thing) and backed that performance up with a goal away at wolves, after that he was probably MoM again against brighton when we battered them at anfield (he got a goal in that one too). he got quite a bit of praise for his performance in the 0-0 against spurs at anfield but then kenny dropped him for 3 games which we lost (united away, arsenal home, sunderland away).
kenny brought him back for the derby game at anfield which had a lot of pressure on it because we hadnt lost 4 games on the trot since the 1950`s and everton were flying, they actually went into the game as favourites but we put on a tremendous performance, gerrard got all the headlines but carroll and suarez were the ones that gave the everton defence nightmares.
the next game was the newcastle game which wasnt his finest hour but people forget how well he started that match, he hit the bar with a header and was involved in that scramble that should have seen us awarded a penalty and one of their players sent off. even the dive came after a tremendous bit of work by carroll who was taking the newcastle defence on on his own.
as we know he kicked on again after the newcastle game and finished the season like a juggernaut.
i agree with you when you say he wasnt exactly prolific but he was improving and he was contributing to the team with his all round performances.
plus he was starting to have a habit of scoring or being MoM (or being close to being MoM) in big games - the derby at goodison, the huge F.A cup game against united which was probably the most hyped game in english footy in decades (the build up was on the national news ffs), the derby at anfield when we werent favourites, the F.A  cup semi final ( because so much has happened since with kenny going and brendan coming in we forget how big this was at the time, it was the biggest derby in a quarter of a century and felt like a CL final watching it), the F.A  cup final and then 3 days later the league game against the european champions.
around the time we played chelsea everyone watched barcelona struggle at home to break down a 10 man chelsea team with a makeshift defence but twice in 4 days carroll ripped them to shreds.
he`s not the easiest on the eye but the big f**ker is effective. he gives even the best defenders a tough game.
i think the dissapointing thing for me is that he doesnt even seem to be given a chance, in that game for england against sweden not only did he score possibly one of the best headers of all time he grafted his f**king @rse off, he ran near 12km in that game, only the 2 centre mids covered more ground. not only that his tracking back and tackling back was becoming a big feature of his game, he was constantly sliding in on midfielders and defenders who hestitated on the ball and how many times did he make blocks or heroic headers in defence?
i think getting rid of him is a mistake, and whats worse he`s not long turned 23, he`s got a lot of improvement in him yet and he`s better on the floor than people give him credit for too, plus the big f##ker has got a lot of heart and we havent got too many players like that in our squad, too many of them start looking at their bootlaces when things start going wrong like in the league game at old trafford or the F.A cup final.

Wow who is this super striker called Andy Carroll? He seems to have the exact same name as ours who played well in like 6 games out of 50 

Let Andy Carroll be now known as the striker that launched essays on newkit 

maguskwt » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:37 pm wrote:Let Andy Carroll be now known as the striker that launched essays on newkit 

Could Andy Carroll be Brendan Rodgers' Plan B?

Would Liverpool be making a mistake to let Carroll go?

Andy Carroll may have thought he had finally got his feet under the table at Liverpool after ending last season with the sort of flourish that suggested he had settled to life on Merseyside.

No-one could claim the 23-year-old had even come close to justifying the exorbitant £35m fee Liverpool handed over to Newcastle United in January 2011 as part of the proceeds from Fernando Torres' £50m sale to Chelsea.

There were some vital signs, however, of the return of the form that prompted now former manager Kenny Dalglish to make the giant Geordie his prime target once Torres had taken his talents to Stamford Bridge.

Carroll, for so long little more than a despairing misfit despite constant public expressions of faith from Dalglish, was alive again. He scored the winner in the FA Cup semi-final against Everton and almost rescued a hopeless position against Chelsea in the final at Wembley with a goal and a performance that made a nonsense of his non-selection, although Dalglish's initial pick seemed based on sound logic.


He then followed that up by terrorising Chelsea captain John Terry as Liverpool won 4-1 in a Premier League game that turned out to be Dalglish's last Anfield game as manager before he was sacked and replaced by Brendan Rodgers.

And it is the arrival of Rodgers, accompanied by his avowed intention to maintain the fluid, passing approach that won so many admirers at Swansea City that now leaves Carroll's Liverpool future open to question.


If Carroll, who played for England at Euro 2012 and scored a spectacular header in the win against Sweden, was hoping for a ringing endorsement from Rodgers about the part he has to play at Anfield then it has not arrived.

He will hardly have been reassured by Rodgers intensifying his efforts to sign Roma's Fabio Borini while expressing his hopes that Uruguayan striker Luis Suarez will sign a new contract at Liverpool.

It merely strengthens the impression that Carroll's bludgeoning, physical style will not provide a neat fit within the more subtle tactical framework Rodgers aims to foster following his arrival at Anfield. He prefers a high-tempo front three - a system which Carroll would not appear to suit.

Rodgers said: "Andy's always going to be linked with clubs, whether he was here or not. I have spoken to him on his holidays and he knows exactly where he stands but I have had no enquiries about him.

"Andy's a player I want to assess and speak with. We've already had a good chat on where we're at."

Carroll will be reluctant to give up easily on his Anfield career after only 18 months and he may regard Rodgers's words as a demand to adapt to the new climate at the club rather than a message that he is heading for the exit.

In among the plaudits that were aimed in Swansea's direction last season, there was the occasional barb that their passing approach sometimes lacked a "Plan B". Would Carroll not provide that other option should Rodgers experience similar problems, or is he simply too much of a stranger to his coaching philosophy?

Experienced Liverpool observers rightly point to potential problems with Carroll's fitness should he not get a regular game. That is not a comment on his attitude, which was praised by Dalglish and England manager Roy Hodgson, but a recognition that he is a player who needs to be in constant action. This is unlikely to be the case should Rodgers land Borini, and perhaps even if he does not.

The dilemma is not only Carroll's. Liverpool know they might not get within £20m of a return on their initial investment which has led to speculation about a loan move.

West Ham United would be at the front of the queue should Liverpool encourage them a loan deal could be done - which could then flush out other interested parties. It does not take a huge leap of the imagination to see how much Hammers' manager Sam Allardyce might relish the idea of Carroll leading his attack back in the Premier League.

Of course one option is that Carroll, having showing flashes of form at the end of last season, will choose to stay and fight it out and prove to Rodgers that he can play a part.

It certainly seems Carroll retains support among Liverpool's fan base. Throwing out the question about his future on Twitter, the audience is obviously framed by that medium but there was virtually unanimous backing for Carroll to be given a chance by Rodgers.

Rodgers wants to make a fast start at Liverpool after a tough early fixture list gave them home games against Manchester City, Arsenal and Manchester United in the opening period.

Whether Andy Carroll has a part to play in those games remains to be seen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/ ... _a_mi.html

With Kuyt gone and Bellamy linked to other clubs (and about to turn 33) I don't think we can afford to let Carroll go even with Borini coming in.  Don't see why Borini and Suarez couldn't play either side of Carroll in a front 3.  Is anyone going to tell me that the lad Swansea had up front last season (Graham was it?) is technically superior to Carroll?  Not from what I saw he isn't.

That front 3 to me looks good, with Bellamy able to cover anywhere across the line and Downing and Sterling cover for the wide berths.  Suarez, and by the sounds of it Borini too, are also capable of playing anywhere across that line.

If Carroll is loaned out I think it's a mistake whatever way you look at it.  If he is sold at a massive loss then it's also a mistake.  I just don't see where we benefit unless we miraculously get 20mil plus (which won't happen) for him and have a better replacement lined up.

I'm guessing you dont understand humour.

Im still waiting for an apology from you after accusing me and calling me a racist.