Andy Carroll signs for West Ham

The Premiership - General Discussion

Postby Thommo's perm » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:59 pm

Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:45 pm wrote:
Kenny Kan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:47 pm wrote::laugh: fecking hell, polar opposite posts from the more impatient bunch like Reg and his impatient fickle crew (maypax I support Citeh now because I'm from Singapore) casting Carroll as a "failure" after 1 full fecking season. Then on the other hand you have yckdkwefbfbwhewkjn proclaiming the world will end (figuratively speaking) if Carroll's moved on.

Personally, I actually feel sorry for Andy Carroll, I really do. I think the guy deserves a break here at LFC but if Rodger's doesn't see him in his plans, there isn't much else you can do.

On a side note - I don't think Dempsey who has been touted about joining us is a bad move as many on here suggest, I quite rate him and think he'd offer us something in the final third. Borini, 'aven't a farking clue, but as I've said, this forum is the only one I've read about him, where slitting my wrists would be a more jovial pleasure.


Come come Kenneth, you're falling into the trap of taking the opposite side of whatever opinion I have no matter how absurd the case. Feel sorry for Carroll?  :laugh:  He showed feck all promise for 12 months, scored a coupla goals at the end and now he's the new messiah?  After his amateur dramatics up at St James' Park when he did an Olympic dive from the half way line (double pike with triple somersault) to land in the box which summed up his complete lack of ability, what makes you feel the lad deserves another chance? Some might agree and think he still fits the bill, mainly the clubs now being associated with his public auction in the county market in Leominster. The fact that we'll probably recover no more than half what we paid shows you the size of the mistake we made.

Trouble with you KK is you get sidetracked and defend the player rather than his record. A turd is a turd no matter from which angle you look at it.


Reginald your remarkable insight and ability to focus on certain thing fascinates me
You crack me up maaaaaaan
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:02 pm

friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm wrote:By the way folks Rodgers has given an interview to the Independent on this link-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/brendan-rodgers-prepared-for-four-years-in-wilderness-with-liverpool-7936378.html

He doesn't know if he'll be around after four years. He strikes me as quite a careerist I was quite excited when he was appointed but the more I hear from him the more disillusioned I feel.

On Carroll I think he'll definitely go the question is when.


practically the same article is in tonights echo.
at first i thought the interview was just about playing down expectations but when i read the whole thing it`s actually quite morose and negative, he talks about how instilling a philosophy in the club is as important as winning things but doubts wether he will be incharge to see his work come to fruition.
thats not what you usually get out of a manager who hasnt even taken charge of a game yet.
i think the size of the task has dawned on him, he mentions the power and the wealth of the other clubs we are competing against and as he says himself it`s not just 1 or 2 but a whole host of them.
the yanks arent backing him in the transfer market so he`s having to buy potential, unless you hit the jackpot like when we signed kevin keegan potential takes time to develop and time is the one thing that hasnt been given to liverpool managers over the past 3 or 4 years.
benitez got us to 2 CL finals and a second place finish but the following season when we finish 6th he`s shown the door, hodgson barely see`s christmas and in kenny`s first full season he reaches the 2 domestic cup finals but gets sacked because he doesnt qualify for the CL.
i think rodgers knows that his plan is a long term plan, it`s about waiting for 21 year old players to turn 25, it`s about players perfecting this high intensity pressing game over 3 or 4 years not 3 or 4 months. i think he knows as well that even when everything has been perfected and players come into their prime that still may not be enough to beat teams who at the first sign of a dip in form hand out blank cheques to their managers to go and by some of the best players on the planet.
it`s a f**king big ask to expect a manager to bridge the gap between us and the top clubs whilst spending less than those clubs, it`s not like the clubs above us have mugs as managers either.
the biggest ask though will be expecting liverpool fans to lower their expectations for a few years, expectations are a hard habit to break after 40 odd years.
everyone may all say we`ll give this fella time but we all know once the season starts and the frustration of watching liverpool lose or falling off the pace kicks in our fans will be up in arms again.
at swansea rodgers was praised for his style of footy, he lost games and got praised, that wont happen here, roy evans found that out.
the yanks arent even giving this fella a fighting chance to succeed, at the moment we still have enough quality players at the club to attract other quality players, give rodgers a few bob so he can go and sign a couple more players of suarez`s stature, a couple more players and we would be there of thereabouts.
this 4 year plan wont work because our big names wont hang around that long and the odds of turning £8m and £9m potential into title winners are very long indeed.
i think rodgers knows it himself.
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Postby Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:19 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:02 am wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm wrote:By the way folks Rodgers has given an interview to the Independent on this link-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/brendan-rodgers-prepared-for-four-years-in-wilderness-with-liverpool-7936378.html

the yanks arent even giving this fella a fighting chance to succeed, .


Cashflow.
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Postby Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:21 pm

Thommo's perm » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:59 am wrote:
Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:45 pm wrote:
Kenny Kan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:47 pm wrote::laugh: fecking hell, polar opposite posts from the more impatient bunch like Reg and his impatient fickle crew (maypax I support Citeh now because I'm from Singapore) casting Carroll as a "failure" after 1 full fecking season. Then on the other hand you have yckdkwefbfbwhewkjn proclaiming the world will end (figuratively speaking) if Carroll's moved on.

Personally, I actually feel sorry for Andy Carroll, I really do. I think the guy deserves a break here at LFC but if Rodger's doesn't see him in his plans, there isn't much else you can do.

On a side note - I don't think Dempsey who has been touted about joining us is a bad move as many on here suggest, I quite rate him and think he'd offer us something in the final third. Borini, 'aven't a farking clue, but as I've said, this forum is the only one I've read about him, where slitting my wrists would be a more jovial pleasure.


Come come Kenneth, you're falling into the trap of taking the opposite side of whatever opinion I have no matter how absurd the case. Feel sorry for Carroll?  :laugh:  He showed feck all promise for 12 months, scored a coupla goals at the end and now he's the new messiah?  After his amateur dramatics up at St James' Park when he did an Olympic dive from the half way line (double pike with triple somersault) to land in the box which summed up his complete lack of ability, what makes you feel the lad deserves another chance? Some might agree and think he still fits the bill, mainly the clubs now being associated with his public auction in the county market in Leominster. The fact that we'll probably recover no more than half what we paid shows you the size of the mistake we made.

Trouble with you KK is you get sidetracked and defend the player rather than his record. A turd is a turd no matter from which angle you look at it.


Reginald your remarkable insight and ability to focus on certain thing fascinates me
You crack me up maaaaaaan
:laugh:


You and me need to stand together against the drivel of that Kan fella.   :laugh:  :laugh:
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:26 pm

Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:19 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:02 am wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm wrote:By the way folks Rodgers has given an interview to the Independent on this link-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/brendan-rodgers-prepared-for-four-years-in-wilderness-with-liverpool-7936378.html

the yanks arent even giving this fella a fighting chance to succeed, .


Cashflow.


they have got money, they just wont back their own judgement and give it to the manager they appointed.
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Postby sgs » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:37 pm

With Ibra gone to PSG, wonder if the Carroll to Milan txfer now gathers pace...



Thursday, July 12, 2012
Berlusconi confirms PSG agreement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN staff


AC Milan owner Silvio Berlusconi has announced that Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Thiago Silva are set to join Paris Saint-Germain.
Silvio Berlusconi has stressed that AC Milan will gain financially from the sales (PA Photos)



• PSG close in on Milan duo

Reports emerged this week that PSG were in the market to sign Thiago Silva, with whom they had agreed a deal in June, and Ibrahimovic at a total cost of around €62 million.

Ibrahimovic's agent, Mino Raiola, met with AC Milan CEO Adriano Galliani on Wednesday and then headed to the French capital for talks with PSG director Leonardo on Thursday. It was then reported by French newspaper L'Equipe that the Sweden striker had agreed to the move in principle and Berlusconi has now confirmed the news.

"Yes, I've sold Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Thiago Silva to PSG," he told Sky Sport 24. "We will save €150 million over two years."

It is reported that Ibrahimovic, 30, was seeking an increase on his €12 million-a-year wages before committing to a move to Paris. Brazil centre-back Thiago, 27, had agreed a deal with PSG earlier this summer before Milan blocked the deal, and the defender then signed an extension to his Rossoneri contract.



http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1124350/ac-milan-confirm-zlatan-ibrahimovic-and-thiago-silva-to-join-psg?cc=5901
Floyd stepped left and threw the hook that caught Hatton flush under the chin. Finally, the British champ had arrived in that mythical place of which his fans speak: Hatton Wonderland.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 pm

Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:19 pm wrote:
ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:02 am wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:26 pm wrote:By the way folks Rodgers has given an interview to the Independent on this link-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/brendan-rodgers-prepared-for-four-years-in-wilderness-with-liverpool-7936378.html

the yanks arent even giving this fella a fighting chance to succeed, .


Cashflow.


A lot of people don’t realise that the board are still cleaning up the financial mess created under the last ownership. FSG gave the club a 30 million interest free loan last year to help with cash flow. The biggest problem still is that the wage bill is far too high considering our revenue.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:55 pm

they have got money, they just wont back their own judgement and give it to the manager they appointed.


How many owners can you name that use their own cash to buy players? Moores didn’t do it, Hicks and Gillett didn’t do it, and FSG won’t do it. It hardly ever happens in football.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:04 pm

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:55 pm wrote:
they have got money, they just wont back their own judgement and give it to the manager they appointed.


How many owners can you name that use their own cash to buy players? Moores didn’t do it, Hicks and Gillett didn’t do it, and FSG won’t do it. It hardly ever happens in football.


City owners , Chelsea owners , Spurs owners , QPR owners .

Moores put in his own money - Kuyt was bought from his own pocket
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Postby Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:09 pm

Abramovich bankolls Chelsea - they don't have a penny of debt.  But I know what you mean and agree.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:11 pm

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:49 pm wrote:
A lot of people don’t realise that the board are still cleaning up the financial mess created under the last ownership. FSG gave the club a 30 million interest free loan last year to help with cash flow. The biggest problem still is that the wage bill is far too high considering our revenue.


according to fans who follow this stuff closely they apparently bought the club on the cheap.
the money for the carroll, hendo etc deals came largely from the sales of torres, babel, ngog etc.
they apparently put £30m of their own money in but we saved a similar amount on players wages so they are about even.
if they want us to be successfull they have got to back their man with some big money, we arent going to realistically catch the teams above us by spending £8m and £9m here and there on 21 and 22 year olds from mid table teams.
at this moment in time we still have enough big names at the club to attract other big name players, if we sign another 2 players of suarez`s quality we can still be in the mix. the odds of a manager bridging the gap to the teams above us by spending less than those sides are very very long.
if they are serious about making us a top side again they will give rodgers at least a fighting chance by giving him some money, they appointed the fella the least they can do is back him. this 4 year plan is f**king pie in the sky, rodgers knows it as well.
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Postby Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:17 pm

Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:04 pm wrote:
Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:55 pm wrote:
they have got money, they just wont back their own judgement and give it to the manager they appointed.


How many owners can you name that use their own cash to buy players? Moores didn’t do it, Hicks and Gillett didn’t do it, and FSG won’t do it. It hardly ever happens in football.


City owners , Chelsea owners , Spurs owners , QPR owners .

Moores put in his own money - Kuyt was bought from his own pocket


Spurs are not bankrolled personally by ENIC and Levy. Unlike ourselves they have kept a lid on their wage bill and generate funds though expensive season tickets and excellent commercial deals.

Moores was paid back the full fee for Kuyt.

You are right on City and Chelsea but I'm not 100% sure on QPR.
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Postby friendlyguy33 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Reg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:47 pm wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:41 am wrote:I blame the owners over the Carroll transfer for appointing Comolli and for signing the cheque that allowed a £10 million player to join Liverpool for £35 million. I don't think any of last summers buys were Kenny's buys Comolli was looking at Suarez and Carroll before Kenny took over from Hodgson the same in terms of Henderon, Downing and Adam.

Adam will be next to go I think I can't see him being around long term to fit in with Rodgers philosophy he's not quick enough and his passing is too slow. The owners may want to tighten the belts in terms of future transfers after what happened last season but the reality is that £9 million buys like Borini will not help make Liverpool a major force again. Sooner or later they'll have to put their hand in their pocket.

It looks like it will be later once Rodgers has got things sorted out in terms of scoring goals and getting back to fortress Anfield. By the looks of that interview he's given to the Independent I don't think Rodgers really wants the Liverpool job long term. I doubt he'll stay four years. I think the owners will hope he can get us into the top four again and then they'll recruit somebody better from abroad.


You are a very astute person.  :bowdown


I don't know I wasn't trying to be clever. It's hard to know what to think at the moment. Rodgers needs to talk things up a bit more rather than talking down expectations. Rafa used to talk down expectations and it didn't do him any favours. The thing about Rafa was he never let it be known publicly that he did have the same aspirations and dreams as all the fans and that he really was disappointed when the team didn't perform. Rafa was good at talking his way out of things. Kenny tried that as well last season but in the end reality set in even for him.

If Carroll is to leave then ok but I doubt it will happen unless they've got someone else lined up besides just Borini coming in. With Suarez out for the first game because of the Olympics we can't go to the Hawthorns and then face City at home a week later with only Bellamy and potentially only this Italian lad as our strikers.

I look forward to seeing who else Brendan has lined up in other positions it can't come soon enough in terms of improving the squad.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:28 pm

Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:17 pm wrote:
Benny The Noon » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:04 pm wrote:
How many owners can you name that use their own cash to buy players? Moores didn’t do it, Hicks and Gillett didn’t do it, and FSG won’t do it. It hardly ever happens in football.


City owners , Chelsea owners , Spurs owners , QPR owners .

Moores put in his own money - Kuyt was bought from his own pocket


Spurs are not bankrolled personally by ENIC and Levy. Unlike ourselves they have kept a lid on their wage bill and generate funds though expensive season tickets and excellent commercial deals.

Moores was paid back the full fee for Kuyt.

You are right on City and Chelsea but I'm not 100% sure on QPR.[/quote]

Moores didn't get that Kuyt money back.

QPR are fully bankrolled by Fernandes.

Lots of clubs are bankrolled by their owners.

The two main ones will be the two challenging for the trophies along with another club funded by massive debt
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Postby Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:30 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:11 pm wrote:
Eagle » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:49 pm wrote:
A lot of people don’t realise that the board are still cleaning up the financial mess created under the last ownership. FSG gave the club a 30 million interest free loan last year to help with cash flow. The biggest problem still is that the wage bill is far too high considering our revenue.


according to fans who follow this stuff closely they apparently bought the club on the cheap.
the money for the carroll, hendo etc deals came largely from the sales of torres, babel, ngog etc.
they apparently put £30m of their own money in but we saved a similar amount on players wages so they are about even.
if they want us to be successfull they have got to back their man with some big money, we arent going to realistically catch the teams above us by spending £8m and £9m here and there on 21 and 22 year olds from mid table teams.
at this moment in time we still have enough big names at the club to attract other big name players, if we sign another 2 players of suarez`s quality we can still be in the mix. the odds of a manager bridging the gap to the teams above us by spending less than those sides are very very long.
if they are serious about making us a top side again they will give rodgers at least a fighting chance by giving him some money, they appointed the fella the least they can do is back him. this 4 year plan is f**king pie in the sky, rodgers knows it as well.


Yes I know all that. I know that the club was bought on the cheap. The money they put into the club for cash flow was only a loan which will be paid back in full. All the money that we have received from outgoing transfers has gone into incoming transfers and despite the inflated wage bill the club was still able to set aside something like 30Mil from revenue (excluding incoming transfers) for transfer last summer.

FSG never promised or even hinted they would use their own money for transfers, in fact they clearly stated the opposite. They said the club must be self sufficient.

The aim isn’t to win the title next season. The aim is to improve and compete for a top 4 finish and we can do that by spending the sort of cash that is rumoured to be available this summer (£25-30million, excluding players sales)

We didn’t have to break the bank to get players like Skrtel, Lucus, Arbeloa, Agger, Reina, Alonso, etc, but they are players that are good enough to play in title winning teams. I’m really not worried about signing really expensive players. What we need is the right blend of players that fit with the managers style of play.
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