Liverpool FC Forum

That hardly negates away from the small fact that under Benitez we were going places, one bad season and he was wrongfully sacked, the conduct of the club in Benitez's treatment throughout his tenure as manager was disgraceful, but nevertheless the man was persistant in managing us, until he was forced out. I can guarantee that if Benitez had been given £100m to spend, he wouldn't have brought the likes of Adam, Downing or Henderson.

I just wonder would the mood towards Kenny still be same had we lost the Carling Cup final?

there's a 2 page spread in the daily fail today having a right pop at kenny. yawn.

as i've said before, the league form has not been good enough this season. if we're still as far behind this time next season then i'll start asking serious questions. not when we're possibly on the verge of getting to 2 cup finals in the same season.

Boxscarf wrote:That hardly negates away from the small fact that under Benitez we were going places, one bad season and he was wrongfully sacked, the conduct of the club in Benitez's treatment throughout his tenure as manager was disgraceful, but nevertheless the man was persistant in managing us, until he was forced out. I can guarantee that if Benitez had been given £100m to spend, he wouldn't have brought the likes of Adam, Downing or Henderson.

I just wonder would the mood towards Kenny still be same had we lost the Carling Cup final?

we dont know what would have happened, rafa did well in the transfer market but his later signings werent great, the likes of dossena, aquilani, keane etc all cost reasonable money and didnt turn out that well. anyway i dont think rafa and these owners would have lasted long together even if he had stayed, the owners obviously have their own idea`s about player recruitment and how long do you think it would have been before rafa fell out with comoli? i saw a list the other day on another forum of people at the club and players etc who rafa fell out with at liverpool and it was unbelievably long. practically every player who left the club had a go at him in the press.
re your last line do you think fans are that fickle? the fans are prepared to give kenny time to get things right.

Dossena really wasn't that bad of a footballer or a defender. He cost £7m, so was hardly breaking the bank. Robbie Keane isn't exactly a terrible footballer is he? You can argue about his price, but sometimes a footballer can move from one club to another and not work out. This happened with Forlan, so because Forlan didn't light up the Premier League does that mean to say he was a poor player? No, of course not, the same applies to Robbie Keane. His record at International level is very good, he's a good striker, for whatever reason it just didn't work out for him here. Aquilani is a class footballer, definitely worth the money we paid for him and had we kept him this season, we'd probably be in a much better position in the league than we currently are. Aquilani is a pass and move footballer, he plays at a high tempo, always looks for space and always looks to involve others in the game. I can see why Benitez signed him, I just cannot fathom why Benitez didn't trust himself enough to play him more often than not. Benitez's last season was riddled with conflict, a few errors from him and kaboom, sacked. Managers should be able to claim against wrongful dismissal, indeed Benitez might not have been wrongfully dismissed, but he was forced out.

Kenny really needs to get it right in the summer, in terms of signings. He needs to bring in a midfielder that isn't as static as Adam, someone who can control the tempo, dictate the flow of the ball, who can get into space, who can create things, who can score goals and we need a striker that can team up with Suarez and be clinical in front of goal. It's all well and good creating 17 chances, with 11 on target, scoring 2 goals, but when you lose 3-2 to relegation candidates then you know you've got some serious issues which need addressing.

Boxscarf wrote:Dossena really wasn't that bad of a footballer or a defender. He cost £7m, so was hardly breaking the bank. Robbie Keane isn't exactly a terrible footballer is he? You can argue about his price, but sometimes a footballer can move from one club to another and not work out. This happened with Forlan, so because Forlan didn't light up the Premier League does that mean to say he was a poor player? No, of course not, the same applies to Robbie Keane. His record at International level is very good, he's a good striker, for whatever reason it just didn't work out for him here. Aquilani is a class footballer, definitely worth the money we paid for him and had we kept him this season, we'd probably be in a much better position in the league than we currently are. Aquilani is a pass and move footballer, he plays at a high tempo, always looks for space and always looks to involve others in the game. I can see why Benitez signed him, I just cannot fathom why Benitez didn't trust himself enough to play him more often than not. Benitez's last season was riddled with conflict, a few errors from him and kaboom, sacked. Managers should be able to claim against wrongful dismissal, indeed Benitez might not have been wrongfully dismissed, but he was forced out.

Kenny really needs to get it right in the summer, in terms of signings. He needs to bring in a midfielder that isn't as static as Adam, someone who can control the tempo, dictate the flow of the ball, who can get into space, who can create things, who can score goals and we need a striker that can team up with Suarez and be clinical in front of goal. It's all well and good creating 17 chances, with 11 on target, scoring 2 goals, but when you lose 3-2 to relegation candidates then you know you've got some serious issues which need addressing.

i`m not saying any of them are bad footballers i`m saying they werent great signings for LFC. as i said i dont think rafa would have put up with a comoli coming in anyway and telling him that statsically he should sign downing or whoever, if rafa moved to a club where a DOF was already in place he`d probably accept that situation but if he was still here when FSG came in as soon as they would have announced that comoli was coming in then that would have been it.
he crossed words with the likes of moores, parry, noel white, purlow, hicks, gilette, pako and even steve heighway behind the scene`s so he wouldnt think twice about fighting his corner if he believed it was in the best interests of the club.
rafa did a great job but he`s gone, he had 6 years which is quite a long time in the modern game at a big club, it`s dalglish`s time now, lets give him enough time to do the job, if he doesnt feel he can take the club any further he`ll be the first to admit it and step down, but plenty of succesful managers have had tough starts, look at ferguson at united, he wasted money on the likes of webb and had banners at OT telling him to do one and look at kendall at everton, the fans were throwing cushions at him and handing `kendall out` leaflets out outside goodison. they both went on to be the most succesful managers in their clubs history.

We shall see if you are right, I hope Kenny is successful with us, I'd love nothing more than to see Kenny have another successful spell as manager at our club, but signings must improve. If everything clicks next season and we end up challenging for a top four position, then I will eat plenty of humble pie, but for me Kenny must improve, the players must improve and the results need to improve. If we win two trophies this season I'll be as happy as a pig in mud, but league wise we have been a disappointment and it's down to the small fact that we are the most wasteful team in the league in front of the oppositions goal.

Boxscarf wrote:We shall see if you are right, I hope Kenny is successful with us, I'd love nothing more than to see Kenny have another successful spell as manager at our club, but signings must improve. If everything clicks next season and we end up challenging for a top four position, then I will eat plenty of humble pie, but for me Kenny must improve, the players must improve and the results need to improve. If we win two trophies this season I'll be as happy as a pig in mud, but league wise we have been a disappointment and it's down to the small fact that we are the most wasteful team in the league in front of the oppositions goal.

cant disagree with any of that mate.

Boxscarf wrote:

I take no pleasure in watching what I have watched this season. I'm grateful that Kenny came in and took the reigns of the club, but the fact remains he has signed players who aren't delivering for whatever reason(s) and he has to take full responsibility. Could he have not found a better winger in country's like Germany, France, Holland or Spain for a cheaper price than what he paid for Downing? What about CM's? He had Aquilani and Meireles here, loaned out Aquilani and sold Meireles. The same with Henderson, could he have not found someone better for a cheaper price or for the same amount of money?

I am prepared to give these players time to develop and grow, but you would expect to see some class from these players and they haven't really shown any this season. Henderson's most memorable moments was his goal at Bolton and his cross that led to the Suarez goal in the Stoke match earlier this season. Downing has scored two goals and that's about it. Adam has scored around 3 goals and that's about it. They haven't set the blue touch paper alight have they? Carroll is the only British signing who really puts the effort in, but he is toothless in front of goal. No wonder people are branding him the White Emile Heskey, but based on Carroll's out put, that's an insult to Heskey who scored 22 goals in his first season with us and he didn't cost £35m either.

Absolutely none of that explanation refutes my earlier claim as to why such profligacy in front of goal is the managers fault . I believed Henderson was
bought for the future ,so I expected him to be used sparingly ,but not *scratches head * on the wing ,but in the case of Adam I think his acquisition was
a genuine gaff .

I suppose in Downing's case he was purchased simply for the premise  he could supply Carroll with the crosses to make the most of  his aerial ability ,and
for the first part of the season he done this ,in point of fact some of Downings arcing balls into the box were a strikers dream ,but Carroll's positioning
around the box was (and to a certain extent is still ) woeful . Incidentally Downing has hit the woodwork more times than any Liverpool player this season
and on his Premiership debut against Sunderland could have had the goal of the season wrapped up .

I know one thing if Liverpool can get Carroll to produce anywhere near the form he showed for Newcastle ,Liverpool will have a player who on his day is
unplayable ,Andy is young and will learn from his many foibles ,but I have no reservations about the potential the lad has for the future .

I also have no reservations about leaving a man in charge who is steeped in the traditions of this great club ,and loves the place and the fans with a
genuine passion . If Kenny believes for one minute he is hurting the reputation of this club he will walk away ,anyone who believes he will let the
club suffer through anything as trivial as personal pride really has no place supporting this great club .

I have no idea how to use this site do I hope people bare with me. I'm on here because I am doing a charity event for Marie curie cancer and u have been given a very special football to sell in order to raise funds. The ball was signed by all players of the 1981 European cup against real Madrid when Liverpool won 1-0. I have pics as a list of all who have signed if anyone is interested please email me on wendyrivers13@yahoo.co.uk. Serious supporters will know exactly whats its worth as will understand I'm trying to get as much as possible for it as the money is going to a good cause

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:

Boxscarf wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:the funny thing is downing, henderson and adam have won more silverware for this club than mascherano ever did.
when we had that `great` side with gerrard, torres, mascherano, alonso etc we won nothing, absolutely f##k all.

Yet they qualified for the Champions League every season and even got to a final and got very close to the Premiership and we were awfully fortunate not to have lost in the Carling Cup final. Had Kenny Miller not missed that sitter towards the end of the 90 minutes, we'd have lost 2-1 in normal time to Cardiff.

The Carling Cup is a good piece of silverware to win, but I'd much rather go back to 2008-2009 when we came second in the league and really looked like we were going places. We've spent so much on British talent and our two best signings were a Spaniard and an Uruguayan.

we never got to a CL final with torres in the team, and although mascherano did play in a CL final that was when he first joined us, he didnt play in any of the group stages and he wasnt in our side in the 2 games against barcelona, he came into the team the next round against PSV.
it`s a bit churlish to mention millers miss, look how we rode our luck on the way to istanbul, away at juventus in the first 5 minutes that ibrahamovic (sp?) missed an absolute sitter from about 5 yards out, and lampard missed a similar sitter at stamford bridge when he somehow blasted a shot over the bar from a similar distance when it looked harder to miss, at the end of the day we didnt go places, when people look back in a 100 years time at the history of this club the carling cup win will be on the honours board, what the mascherano, alonso, torres and gerrard side `won` wont, unfortunately.

Oh come on, you can't honestly say we are a better team now than we were then, that is absurd, silverware or no silverware. The best judge of a club's progress is league position not how many second rate cups it wins, and in that regard we are going backwards over the past few years and with Kenny in charge will continue to do so and i don't give 2 sh1ts who that distresses. I support the club not the manager. Daglish was an incredible player but has never impressed as a manager, he inherited a fantastic Liverpool team and bought the league at Blackburn, all other clubs have been a disaster.

Second Rate Cups !!! Typical attitude of a modern day fan .

Winning those second rate cups is part of our history and tradition.

4 trophies is all that can be won this season - we have a chance to win 2 !! That will equal a great season.

People play football to win medals and trophies.

And if you think Kenny had an easy ride when he first was manager and " inherited " a decent side ( who DIDN'T win the league the year before ) then you don't have the first clue about our history.

How many of the 87/88 team or 89/90 team did he inherited ? Clueless

Benny The Noon wrote:Second Rate Cups !!! Typical attitude of a modern day fan .

Winning those second rate cups is part of our history and tradition.

4 trophies is all that can be won this season - we have a chance to win 2 !! That will equal a great season.

People play football to win medals and trophies.

And if you think Kenny had an easy ride when he first was manager and " inherited " a decent side ( who DIDN'T win the league the year before ) then you don't have the first clue about our history.

How many of the 87/88 team or 89/90 team did he inherited ? Clueless

In our case we started the season competing in 3 competitions. Realistically, the league was never going to come given our players so the 2 cups are all that was realistically up for grabs as far as I'm concerned. Winning them both would be overachieving imo.

I understand that the Carling Cup isnt the strongest competition around but it's still a trophy and one we deservedly won. On it's own, it still doesnt make this a good season if we finish 8th or 9th in the league. Add the FA cup to the equation and its a different story.

Someone mentioned something about a top4 finish being a trophy of sorts and I do agree with that. Its disappointing that we aren't at that level yet but if you win 2 cups in one year and put out performances in most games like we have, it becomes more an issue of consistency than lack of managerial ability imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way advocating that we go into next season with the same crop of players. The lack of quality and backup in some areas of the pitch ar the main reason behind our consistency struggles imo and the sooner we get that sorted out the sooner we'll see improvements in our league results imo.

aCe' wrote:

Benny The Noon wrote:Second Rate Cups !!! Typical attitude of a modern day fan .

Winning those second rate cups is part of our history and tradition.

4 trophies is all that can be won this season - we have a chance to win 2 !! That will equal a great season.

People play football to win medals and trophies.

And if you think Kenny had an easy ride when he first was manager and " inherited " a decent side ( who DIDN'T win the league the year before ) then you don't have the first clue about our history.

How many of the 87/88 team or 89/90 team did he inherited ? Clueless

In our case we started the season competing in 3 competitions. Realistically, the league was never going to come given our players so the 2 cups are all that was realistically up for grabs as far as I'm concerned. Winning them both would be overachieving imo.

I understand that the Carling Cup isnt the strongest competition around but it's still a trophy and one we deservedly won. On it's own, it still doesnt make this a good season if we finish 8th or 9th in the league. Add the FA cup to the equation and its a different story.

Someone mentioned something about a top4 finish being a trophy of sorts and I do agree with that. Its disappointing that we aren't at that level yet but if you win 2 cups in one year and put out performances in most games like we have, it becomes more an issue of consistency than lack of managerial ability imo. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way advocating that we go into next season with the same crop of players. The lack of quality and backup in some areas of the pitch ar the main reason behind our consistency struggles imo and the sooner we get that sorted out the sooner we'll see improvements in our league results imo.

Can't disagree with much there

what are you on about you loony woman??

We've NEVER been a cup side, NEVER.

Our tradition is winning league titles, being the best team in the land and having players who are proud to wear the shirt.

7_Kewell wrote:what are you on about you loony woman??

We've NEVER been a cup side, NEVER.

Our tradition is winning league titles, being the best team in the land and having players who are proud to wear the shirt.

Never said we were a cup side !

Then again that is all we have won in the last 20 plus years .

Cant really call it a tradition anymore.

Maybe some need to realise that