Liverpool FC Forum

Scottbot wrote:

Kerry07 wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

Penguins wrote:So this is now our measure of success?
7th in the league and a league cup win and all is fine...
How the mighty have fallen...
So a finish outside the top 4 and a league cup next season again and its plain sailing..?

Don't be so dramatic. Look where we were 14 months ago. Look where we were 2 years ago. In a right fookin mess is where. It's all relative, sure compare this season to many of the glorious seasons of yesteryear and it's pretty bleak and of course everyone isn't saying it's tickety boo and we're happy with the League Cup BUT it doesn't mean we have to walk around with bandages on our wrists and a gun to our head like so many of our fan base.

2 years ago.... we had 63pts (1.74 per game) and finished 7th
today ........... we have 39pts (1.5 per game) and sit 7th

so statistically we are worse off, and player wise are 70m down on average british signings on high wages. We are the 12th lowest scorers, and have 4 wins at home this season.

Was this your point?

I am in no doubt that the one thing keeping some from calling a spade a spade, is the fact a certain Kenny Dalglish is manager. He was afterall appointed by the fans, so the same fans are hardly gonna do so. One openly admits he would never do so...the blinkers are staying firmly on.

Let's have it your way then fella.

- We're not playing any better
- No progress has been made
- The club are going backwards
- The cup success this season does not count
- We were better off two years ago
- and Kenny's a fraud

You forgot that we are all ignorant, bullsh'it swallowing wools who think the sun shines out of KK's ar'se

I'm quite worried about Dalglish's future, I mean John Henry and Tom Werner came out at the start of the season and said that "fourth place is our minimum expectation", so Dalglish & co knew what was expected of them and it seems that this particular expectation will not be met this season.

Hopefully Henry and Werner will be more patient than some supporters and will give Dalglish more investment in the summer, so hopefully Dalglish can bring in a centre midfielder with play making qualities and a striker that is clinical in front of goal. I've often felt this season that our centre midfield has been too static and our strikers have been far too wasteful, in particular Suarez who really should have twice as many goals than he does.

I'm a bit disappointed that fourth is likely going to be missed this season, but I'm pleased we have some European football to look forward to next season and I am delighted that we have ended our trophy draught and are still in the hunt for the FA Cup (a competition that I adore), so all is well for me at the moment. A change in manager is the last thing we need - At this rate we'll end up like Chelsea and that's not what we want. We've had three managers in the space of a year-and-a-half and that's unacceptable.

I'm quite worried about Dalglish's future, I mean John Henry and Tom Werner came out at the start of the season and said that "fourth place is our minimum expectation", so Dalglish & co knew what was expected of them and it seems that this particular expectation will not be met this season.

Liverpool F.C have competition that didn't use to have in Houllier and Benitez times.

If the club can't provide money for good signings, I'm worried about the future of almost any manager who's told to be in the top four minimum.

IMHO Dalglish might not have achieved the top four goal, but his arrival at the club was necessary, and he showed to be valiant because it was a tough moment to start managing the club. The club was a mess under twit and ***** and he didn't hide and stepped forward.

I'm a bit disappointed that fourth is likely going to be missed this season, but I'm pleased we have some European football to look forward to next season and I am delighted that we have ended our trophy draught and are still in the hunt for the FA Cup (a competition that I adore), so all is well for me at the moment. A change in manager is the last thing we need - At this rate we'll end up like Chelsea and that's not what we want. We've had three managers in the space of a year-and-a-half and that's unacceptable.

Besides unacceptable, it's a bad sign. I hope it's not a new trend in the club. But fortunately I think it's the consequence of the club being in turmoil in the past. All the managers here since Benitez have worked in  very difficult circumstances.

I think you make a point there defending not changing the manager. The club needs to settle after the turmoil. Dalglish helped to that goal. We can't ignore Manchester City is not the team it used to be signing up the Silvas and so on. I think a bit of patience is required now.

Sabre wrote:
If the club can't provide money for good signings, I'm worried about the future of almost any manager who's told to be in the top four minimum

I agree with a majority of your post, except this point.

F.S.G have given Dalglish a license to spend money, they've backed Dalglish to the hilt thus far. £22m for Suarez, £35m on Carroll, £20m on Downing, £16m on Henderson and so on. So given this substantial backing, I don't believe what they are asking is too unreasonable.

Dalglish has increased expectation with such increased spending, though even if we do miss out on a top four finish, I won't be calling for his head, but I do expect more improvements made to first team in the summer and I expect the likes of Carroll, Downing and Henderson to start performing to a higher standard on a consistent basis next season.

I think you make a point there defending not changing the manager. The club needs to settle after the turmoil. Dalglish helped to that goal. We can't ignore Manchester City is not the team it used to be signing up the Silvas and so on. I think a bit of patience is required now.

I agree patience is needed, but this season at times has been nothing short of frustrating, our conversion rate in front of goal has cost us big time, therefore I can understand the utter frustration of some supporters, I'll even look past their knee-jerk reactions as a result. I think we'll get back into the top four, sooner or later, but what Dalglish needs to do is start looking for players abroad, because you're not going to find a British version of Alonso or Mascherano, that's for sure. You won't even find an English defender as good as Sami Hyypia, neither!

If we dont finish fourth we can fully expect those who said we wouldnt to gloat and say: "Told you so"
If we do, what will they say?

7_Kewell wrote:So, now what?

We’re sitting in 7th, 10 points off of Arsenal, sandwiched between Newcastle and Norwich. Quite frankly, our league campaign has been a f**king disaster.

What’s more, Adam, Henderson, Carroll and Downing have become the biggest waste of money in the club's history. They’re terrible players, and amount of money they cost makes their failures even greater than Souness and Houllier's transfers failures combined.

As far as i can see we have 2 options:
A) Give Kenny and his players another 6 months of a new season to develop

B) Bring in a new manager and see if a fresh approach can bring something out of the squad

Of course, there’s the option of Kenny selling his flops, but that won’t happen in my view. It would be admitting defeat and i don’t think he’s prepared to do it.

Personally, i’d say give him and the squad until December...it’s enough time to work on the team over the summer and add where necessary. It's alse time enough to make it plain to Kenny that they’re his players, and unless something drastically changes by the winter then he’ll be held accountable.

As things stand we’re nothing more than mid-table mediocrity and a fortunate league cup win isn’t enough to distract anyone that our team is very poor, and Kenny’s transfer policy is nothing short of appaling.

Totally agree with you mate, except I fee KD should be given one more season because the fella had been away from management for 10 years prior to his 2nd coming.

Also I don't agree with this we are a work in progress Bull Sh.it, it is just a lame excuse for not being good enough. Come on, look at Mourinho's first season at Chelsea. He was new to the PL and to his Chelsea players and yet he won the PL 2 seasons in a row. So this work in progress thing is one BIG BULL SH.IT!!

alwayslfc wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:So, now what?

We’re sitting in 7th, 10 points off of Arsenal, sandwiched between Newcastle and Norwich. Quite frankly, our league campaign has been a f**king disaster.

What’s more, Adam, Henderson, Carroll and Downing have become the biggest waste of money in the club's history. They’re terrible players, and amount of money they cost makes their failures even greater than Souness and Houllier's transfers failures combined.

As far as i can see we have 2 options:
A) Give Kenny and his players another 6 months of a new season to develop

B) Bring in a new manager and see if a fresh approach can bring something out of the squad

Of course, there’s the option of Kenny selling his flops, but that won’t happen in my view. It would be admitting defeat and i don’t think he’s prepared to do it.

Personally, i’d say give him and the squad until December...it’s enough time to work on the team over the summer and add where necessary. It's alse time enough to make it plain to Kenny that they’re his players, and unless something drastically changes by the winter then he’ll be held accountable.

As things stand we’re nothing more than mid-table mediocrity and a fortunate league cup win isn’t enough to distract anyone that our team is very poor, and Kenny’s transfer policy is nothing short of appaling.

Totally agree with you mate, except I fee KD should be given one more season because the fella had been away from management for 10 years prior to his 2nd coming.

Also I don't agree with this we are a work in progress Bull Sh.it, it is just a lame excuse for not being good enough. Come on, look at Mourinho's first season at Chelsea. He was new to the PL and to his Chelsea players and yet he won the PL 2 seasons in a row. So this work in progress thing is one BIG BULL SH.IT!!

Mourinho spent £70m in one window on new acquisitions. No sell to spend just a big wad of cash he raided Portugal with.

You are being naive if you think it is a like for like comparison.

Who said the race for 4th is over??

I agree it is unlikely due to our lack of goals this season, but I have never known a season where the supposed "top teams" have dropped so many points.

Chelsea and Arsenal are both as inconsistant as we are... never say never, just say unlikely!!

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Mourinho spent £70m in one window on new acquisitions. No sell to spend just a big wad of cash he raided Portugal with.

You are being naive if you think it is a like for like comparison.

We spent something similar, and we didnt exactly expect to win the league. We expected some improvements from the team that played at the end of last season, and a 4th place finish. Considering how Sh*t Chelsea and Arsenal have played this season we had a golden opportunity to grab that 4th place. Its not going to get any easier than the current season as none of the top teams have performed really well.

alwayslfc wrote:

7_Kewell wrote:So, now what?

We’re sitting in 7th, 10 points off of Arsenal, sandwiched between Newcastle and Norwich. Quite frankly, our league campaign has been a f**king disaster.

What’s more, Adam, Henderson, Carroll and Downing have become the biggest waste of money in the club's history. They’re terrible players, and amount of money they cost makes their failures even greater than Souness and Houllier's transfers failures combined.

As far as i can see we have 2 options:
A) Give Kenny and his players another 6 months of a new season to develop

B) Bring in a new manager and see if a fresh approach can bring something out of the squad

Of course, there’s the option of Kenny selling his flops, but that won’t happen in my view. It would be admitting defeat and i don’t think he’s prepared to do it.

Personally, i’d say give him and the squad until December...it’s enough time to work on the team over the summer and add where necessary. It's alse time enough to make it plain to Kenny that they’re his players, and unless something drastically changes by the winter then he’ll be held accountable.

As things stand we’re nothing more than mid-table mediocrity and a fortunate league cup win isn’t enough to distract anyone that our team is very poor, and Kenny’s transfer policy is nothing short of appaling.

Totally agree with you mate, except I fee KD should be given one more season because the fella had been away from management for 10 years prior to his 2nd coming.

Also I don't agree with this we are a work in progress Bull Sh.it, it is just a lame excuse for not being good enough. Come on, look at Mourinho's first season at Chelsea. He was new to the PL and to his Chelsea players and yet he won the PL 2 seasons in a row. So this work in progress thing is one BIG BULL SH.IT!!

I also don't like all the excuses for Kenny.

1. We are  work in progress
2. The universe changed between Rafa's end and 6 months later when kenny took over so our expectations should also totally change
3. Kenny took us over in turmoil (which is nothing compared to the Turmoil Rafa and actually Hodgson had to deal with when the vermin was actually owning the club.)
4. We are so unlucky for a whole season...


To be honest I don't believe in the singings he has made. The have been awful which we all agree on. But when other managers has been roasted when they have made poor signings
all of a sudden the manager is practically not mentioned even when everyone is critizising the singings. This british road he is going down is outdated and pisspoor. If you want technical, creative players you have to go outside the borders.
And when you make poor singings the worst thing you can do as a manager is to persist with them long after everyone, and I mean everyone, can see they are not up for the task.
This "legendary status" and "diplomatic immunity" which our manager seems to have is not good at all. Noone is bigger than the club but in many minds that doesn't seem to be true when it comes to Kenny.
I saw the last years of his football career and I am thankful for what he did as a fotballer for us but I don't like when former LFC players takes over as managers beacuse of the fact that many can't seperate the player from the manager.
See Souness as another example. Should have gotten the sack within 2 years but stayed was too long as he wasn't good enough.
The owners have given Kenny an unprecceded amount of money to spend never seen in the history of the club and just hasn't delievered.
No manager should be treated like in Chelski but a manager should be able to be questioned when he make many failures.
After all that money spent we are no better a season ago and have Fulham, Stoke and WBA breathing down our neck. Teams that had a worse squad than us last season and spent a fraction of what Kenny had at his disposal.
When Rafa finished 7th with no money it was a big failure and I see no difference than to call this at least as big of a failure. And imo Rafa also had a tougher climate to work within than Kenny has had this season.
Just not good enough and I don't care if god himself is manager, I say it as I see it.
Kenny has only been manager for one and a half season so that is one mitigating circumstance, and we won a league cup on penalties. But if I see the same performance in the league next season persisting with players like Adam I won't be a popular figure on the boards in a years time.

test post        

penguins:
"When Rafa finished 7th with no money... "


Stop it
Please

We are a work in progress, why don't you like it?  Also I think it was important to buy British as when Uefas riles come in about homegrown players we will be sorted.  If you think British players are expensive now, wait till the rules change

Thommo's perm wrote:penguins:
"When Rafa finished 7th with no money... "


Stop it
Please

Why? Cause it is the truth?
He got jack all to spend in the last year.

I am just not yet convinced this is a work in progress though? Says who? Unless you are talking Gerrard, Rooney and a few others buying british is a big expensive mistake.
That uefa rule is so overused as a reason to buy british players.
You can easily use you acadamy to fill in most of those 7-8 players out of the 25.
And it isn't even necessary that they play and can sit on the bench or be outside the first 16. It is not like City, Arsenal and Chelski will all have 6 british players in their starting elevens as soon as the rules
come into play. I expect very little difference as to what we see today.

ignore this post, just testing to see if this new account works