Liverpool FC Forum

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:50 am

Kerry07 wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Penguins wrote:So this is now our measure of success?
7th in the league and a league cup win and all is fine...
How the mighty have fallen...
So a finish outside the top 4 and a league cup next season again and its plain sailing..?

Don't be so dramatic. Look where we were 14 months ago. Look where we were 2 years ago. In a right fookin mess is where. It's all relative, sure compare this season to many of the glorious seasons of yesteryear and it's pretty bleak and of course everyone isn't saying it's tickety boo and we're happy with the League Cup BUT it doesn't mean we have to walk around with bandages on our wrists and a gun to our head like so many of our fan base.

2 years ago.... we had 63pts (1.74 per game) and finished 7th
today ........... we have 39pts (1.5 per game) and sit 7th

so statistically we are worse off, and player wise are 70m down on average british signings on high wages. We are the 12th lowest scorers, and have 4 wins at home this season.

Was this your point?

I am in no doubt that the one thing keeping some from calling a spade a spade, is the fact a certain Kenny Dalglish is manager. He was afterall appointed by the fans, so the same fans are hardly gonna do so. One openly admits he would never do so...the blinkers are staying firmly on.

The best attacking pass and move football of the end of last season;

Liverpool 5 - 0 Birmingham; Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Robinson, Spearing, Lucas, Maxi, Kuyt, Meireles, Suarez

Liverpool 3 - 0 Newcastle; Reina, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Johnson, Kuyt, Spearing, Lucas, Meireles, Maxi, Suarez

Fulham 2 - 5 Liverpool; Reina, Johnson, Flanagan, Carragher, Skrtel, Maxi, Lucas, Spearing, Meireles, Kuyt, Suarez

Thirteen goals in three consecutive games. Common denonimator; Maxi, Kuyt, Meireles, Suarez. Not just the goals, the performances

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9475026.stm
"It was a sensational display from Liverpool, who have now scored 13 goals in their last three games and have climbed from 12th to fifth in the table since Kenny Dalglish took over."

He keeps that team, and adds one or two technical players, we have a very different season. Instead, he forked out 70million on average british players, put them into the team, and we havent looked anywhere near the same side. From 13 goals in 3 games, to 30 goals in 26 games.

After those three scintilating performances, where the movement and link up play of the forwards pulled the defences all over the place, Andy Carroll was put in against Spurs in what was a UEFA Cup decider, and the performance was utterly dreadful (i was there.. i seen the entire thing).

Fast forward to this season, and the Arsenal game... the movement of the forwards was superb.. no static player ruining the movement of the attacking play or restricting Suarez's space to run. The same link up we saw last season was back.. Kuyts two flicks through to Suarez that set him clear.

Its his british signings that has cost us dear in the league this season. The signings were a mistake, and he compounds it by picking them. Unless he rectifies this error, it will be same again next season.

The league table doesnt lie.

"Youth is wasted on the young"
Shakespeare
:;):

by **red187** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:06 pm

I honestly believe now that fourth place is gone you will see us playing with more abandoment. Simply put its the only way Kenny will keep his job.

I'm not saying its how I feel, I believe Kenny given time will turn the team around, I basing it on the general rumours that Kenny was required to delivery at a minimum fourth place by the owners. Considering even the most optimistic supporter will now conceed that fourth is gone this leaves Kenny in a no lose situation.

A lot of our performances this season have seemed stiffled, rigid to be honest, almost Houllier like with the emphashis on not losing rather that going for the win (Arsenal on Saturday a perfect example, the game was slipping away and attacking changes were delayed). I believe that this was due to the pressure on Kenny and the backroom staff to qualify for the CL.

Now that CL qualification seems improbable, the only way for Kennys to convince the owners that he is the man to take the club forward is to prove that the product on the field is of sufficient quality to keep fickle fans and sponsors alike happy.
This has to mean taking the breaks of, very similar to the end of last season when we were playing some of the best football I have seen from us in many years

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:14 pm

We have moved forward this year its just that some fans are too impatient to acknowledge it. We won our first trophy in almost 6 years just last week.
We're back in Europe at least which will give the youngsters a lot more game time like Coates, Hendo etc.
We're still in the FA Cup.
We have really improved our defence.

I think we're just a player or two short of being a very good side. We badly need a striker that can score goals, a right winger would be nice, and a playmaker.

Calling for a manager to be sacked a week after winning a trophy is pathetic.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:25 pm

We have moved forward SO much. The football I am watching is much better than the dross we have been forced to watch over the last good few seasons. All that is missing is a clinical finisher. But hey, let's slag the whole team off and get rid of the manager. People don't like the term "work in progress" bit that is what we are. We have moved forward, show some patience and do your job as a supporter. That means support the team!

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:28 pm

i think the biggest gripe is that we have scored so little goals after spending so much on players. otherwise, i don't see a reason to be negative.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:29 pm

Kerry07 wrote:After those three scintilating performances, where the movement and link up play of the forwards pulled the defences all over the place, Andy Carroll was put in against Spurs in what was a UEFA Cup decider, and the performance was utterly dreadful (i was there.. i seen the entire thing).

Fast forward to this season, and the Arsenal game... the movement of the forwards was superb.. no static player ruining the movement of the attacking play or restricting Suarez's space to run. The same link up we saw last season was back.. Kuyts two flicks through to Suarez that set him clear.

Ah I get it now!
When Carroll plays...we lose. When Carroll doesnt play....we lose
KK needs to be sacked. Thanks for clearing that up
:laugh:

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:33 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:i think the biggest gripe is that we have scored so little goals after spending so much on players. otherwise, i don't see a reason to be negative.

If we could score penalties and move the posts an inch wider we'd probably have 20 more goals!

Id like to see us sign a quality striker. Suarez could play just behind in a free role and Gerrard/lucas in CM.

Think that would work well.

by **Redman in wales** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:51 pm

Two wins from our last 10 league games.

Awful stat.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:00 pm

Redman in wales wrote:Two wins from our last 10 league games.

Awful stat.

it's ok. it's progress, and we just won a cup last week. chin up

by **babu** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:05 pm

Give me a manager here for the long run, here for the good of the club. I'd take that any day over any short term success, including a league or champions league title.

I can't remember who said this, but this is a quote from a very successful CEO... "my success should be measured by how well the company is, for my successor, as compared to when I started"

If all our managers acted like this, we would always remain a top club, without sacrificing our principles.

Managers like Mureen get you short term success at the expense of long term intangible value.

I've been an active overseas supporter of LFC for over 30 years. I know which I value more.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:22 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:i think the biggest gripe is that we have scored so little goals after spending so much on players. otherwise, i don't see a reason to be negative.

this is also my only complaint.
im happy enough with the management and never thought we were going to win the league or anything in his first year but i did expect a better challenge on 4th especially seen as how strong we finished last season.
this season we are beginning to see kennys impact on the club and its too early to say whether or not he's failing.the teams shortcomings are obvious so it will be interesting to see how he solves this with either the players he has at his disposal or new signings in the summer.
ive no doubts in my mind that in 3-5 years time we will be potential league winners and definately restored to the cl with the youth players we have and whats going to come through but imo next season will define kennys role.
its never going to be the fans decision to get rid of him but dont forget we are now owned by investors who will want to start seeing a return on their out lay soon.

by **Raoul** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:22 pm

My turn to weigh in. Kenny's purchases have been hit and miss. He has unwisely spent a lot of money on "potential", though some of his buys (the cheaper ones) have been very good. He has regularly got team selections wrong, with square pegs jammed into round holes. It appears he still isn't sure what his best team is.

However, it would be wrong for the owners to do anything but support him. In no particular order:

1. He has the club's best interests at heart.
2. He has us playing good football (not consistently, but it is not like the dark days of Roy - Kenny for me has done enough).
3. The camp appears to be in good heart and united.
4. He has won some silverware, and got us European football (not the brand we wanted, but I'll take it).
5. The short-termism of always firing managers is no way to build a winning side.

He has some work to do, not doubt, but firing him now makes no sense at all.

by **Reg** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Redman in wales wrote:Two wins from our last 10 league games.

Awful stat.

The ghost of Stato returns.

I miss that lad.

by **Scottbot** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:54 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
Penguins wrote:So this is now our measure of success?
7th in the league and a league cup win and all is fine...
How the mighty have fallen...
So a finish outside the top 4 and a league cup next season again and its plain sailing..?

Don't be so dramatic. Look where we were 14 months ago. Look where we were 2 years ago. In a right fookin mess is where. It's all relative, sure compare this season to many of the glorious seasons of yesteryear and it's pretty bleak and of course everyone isn't saying it's tickety boo and we're happy with the League Cup BUT it doesn't mean we have to walk around with bandages on our wrists and a gun to our head like so many of our fan base.

2 years ago.... we had 63pts (1.74 per game) and finished 7th
today ........... we have 39pts (1.5 per game) and sit 7th

so statistically we are worse off, and player wise are 70m down on average british signings on high wages. We are the 12th lowest scorers, and have 4 wins at home this season.

Was this your point?

I am in no doubt that the one thing keeping some from calling a spade a spade, is the fact a certain Kenny Dalglish is manager. He was afterall appointed by the fans, so the same fans are hardly gonna do so. One openly admits he would never do so...the blinkers are staying firmly on.

Let's have it your way then fella.

- We're not playing any better
- No progress has been made
- The club are going backwards
- The cup success this season does not count
- We were better off two years ago
- and Kenny's a fraud

by **Kerry07** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:50 pm

Raoul wrote:My turn to weigh in. Kenny's purchases have been hit and miss. He has unwisely spent a lot of money on "potential", though some of his buys (the cheaper ones) have been very good. He has regularly got team selections wrong, with square pegs jammed into round holes. It appears he still isn't sure what his best team is.

However, it would be wrong for the owners to do anything but support him. In no particular order:

1. He has the club's best interests at heart.
2. He has us playing good football (not consistently, but it is not like the dark days of Roy - Kenny for me has done enough).
3. The camp appears to be in good heart and united.
4. He has won some silverware, and got us European football (not the brand we wanted, but I'll take it).
5. The short-termism of always firing managers is no way to build a winning side.

He has some work to do, not doubt, but firing him now makes no sense at all.

Don't disagree with any of the five points...and maybe i should include those as opposed to just stating the league placing and british signings.

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