Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:04 am

7_Kewell wrote:
friendlyguy33 wrote:I remember you posting on here about a year ago 7_Kewell that you quite liked the lad Villas-Boas and you wanted him to be the Liverpool manager in the summer of 2011 so that Kenny could move back upstairs?

Would you like to revise that opinion in light of Chelsea's current predicament?

nope.

AVB was doomed from the start at Chelsea because the likes of Lampard, Cole, Drogba and Terry have too much power with the chairman. AVB knows full well that Chelsea need a clear out, but his hands are tied. According to reports, roman abramovich has told his manager that cole and lampard MUST PLAY

He hasn't got a hope of building his own team, like he did at Porto. If he was here, i think he would have been given the freedom to build from scratch, which is what we need.

so no...chelseas downfall lies with the chairman and his players who all think they know best.

Agree. I'd say its 80% the players and clubs fault and 20% VB's.

I'd have him at LFC in a flash.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:15 am

friendlyguy33 wrote:Surely if he's such a great coach he should be able to adapt the players he's inherited to perform better than they managed last season? He was never going to be able to bring in all the players he wanted in one season. They didn't stop him signing Romelu, Lukaku or Mata.

Villas-Boas was the wrong choice for Chelsea as he had insufficient experience to be able to manage a top english premiership side having only been in charge of Porto for a relatively short time.

I'm glad Liverpool didn't appoint him last summer as you recommended. He'd have been a disaster as Chelsea's players clearly haven't responded to him and want Hiddink back in charge. Liverpool would have been even lower in the table this season with Villas-Boas at the helm.

Based on what you're saying right now, that a great coach should be able to adapt irregardless of the ownership situation, how come some fans were always able to use that excuse, and blame the owners for Rafa's shortcomings? He is a great coach isn't he? He should be able to adapt, no? And as for us being lower in the league if AVB was in charge, that's 100% opinionated and hypothetical. Unless you have a crystal ball and can tell the future, nobody knows how it would be.

As for Kenny, if the team can continue to keep up the excellent football they played yesterday, then I don't see a need for change in managerial position. What I do need to see is a change in transfer policies. If we're going to spend such vast amount of money on players like Carroll and Henderson, then they should be complete product. End of. No excuse about how he is young whatsoever.

Furthermore, all these talk about how they can fulfill their potential does my head in. WHAT POTENTIAL? How does one know the limit of their potential? And what if the best they can be when they reach their potential isn't good enough for us? "Potential" is such an easy excuse, word to use, but when scrutinized further, has many glaring areas which needs to be addressed. It's a dangerous word which had been used on so many players who didn't end up making it big time such as Baros, Gonzalez, Babel, La Tallec, etc.

Another issue that gets to me is certain poster's claims that we spent very little because of the Torres and Babel sale. Net Spend. Seriously wtf is net spend? When the wages we paid the players are taken into account, how much of the profit is left? And if everything is going to be calculated on net spend, how will the club ever maximize their profits?

All in all, I don't mind if Kenny stays as it's not fair to sack him after such a short spell, but certain players has to go. Fabio Aurelio, Charlie Adam, Brad Jones, Doni, Stephan Darby should be sold. While Carragher should be retired. I'm gonna sound like a broken record but we need someone like RVP and that person might just be Luuk De Jong or Bas Doost. They are having a very good season in the Dutch league. The club should seriously look out of England if they wish to buy quality players.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:54 am

I said that we needed to get a striker during the Jan window to climb up the table. When Kenny and commoli announced that we aren't getting anyone for the first team I was disappointed. This team is a very average side that can play and defend but is toothless in attack. But fair enough to the owners they have splashed the cash on the likes of Henderson, downing, Adam and Enrique in the summer so they probably don't want to spend in Jan. Now our focus should be on winning the FA cup and try to finish 5th. Buy a striker, a winger and a DM in the summer...

To be fair to Kenny, this is his first season and he deserves to fulfill his contract... But he really made an error of judgement on Carroll... If we didn't spend 35 million on him we will probably see the owners spending again on another striker...

by **bobbyrog** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:37 am

7_Kewell wrote:So, now what?

We’re sitting in 7th, 10 points off of Arsenal, sandwiched between Newcastle and Norwich. Quite frankly, our league campaign has been a f**king disaster.

What’s more, Adam, Henderson, Carroll and Downing have become the biggest waste of money in the club's history. They’re terrible players, and amount of money they cost makes their failures even greater than Souness and Houllier's transfers failures combined.

As far as i can see we have 2 options:
A) Give Kenny and his players another 6 months of a new season to develop

B) Bring in a new manager and see if a fresh approach can bring something out of the squad

Of course, there’s the option of Kenny selling his flops, but that won’t happen in my view. It would be admitting defeat and i don’t think he’s prepared to do it.

Personally, i’d say give him and the squad until December...it’s enough time to work on the team over the summer and add where necessary. It's alse time enough to make it plain to Kenny that they’re his players, and unless something drastically changes by the winter then he’ll be held accountable.

As things stand we’re nothing more than mid-table mediocrity and a fortunate league cup win isn’t enough to distract anyone that our team is very poor, and Kenny’s transfer policy is nothing short of appaling.

The way I see it is that are new players just aren't cutting it, for the money they cost they should be able to adapt to liverpool and the style of football kd wants them to play (unless they were just bad costly buys).

There needs to be some pressure applied to both kd and the players aswhen the americans took over they stated they would invest in players (which they have) as long as we grabbed fourth postion (which doesnt look good), in all other teams heads would roll but fans aren't allowed to say that about kd they just blame the players (who HE brought in), don't get me wrong I want kd to stay but something is going wrong as he cant seem to get the best out of a string of decent international players.

Come on liverpool sort yourselves out because that lucky carling cup will not be enough for this season after spending so much. :help

by **eds** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:08 pm

red till i die!! wrote:never mind the chavs we have our own problems with our own players and management so i couldnt give a toss whats going on with them.
the fact is that we arent good enough for 4th this year and with that same bunch we wont be good enough next year either.
fsg arent willing to bank roll us to the tune they have thus far so we are stuck pretty much with what we have.for me that says a lot about kenny and how he has spent what they have given him already.
does anybody seriously think that we have just been unlucky in so many games this season? or is it that the players arent good enough?.
we were much better in the back end of last season and have come no where near that level this year despite new signings.
if its the case of just been unlucky then its been one hell of a bad run and we have to be consistently the unluckiest team in the world.if its the case of we just havent good enough players then kenny has to take the brunt of this as his signings make up the core of the squad and his persistence with playing them has cost us.
results are what count in this game and they werent deemed good enough for rafa or roy so what makes kenny different? especially giving the amount of money he has spent.
im delighted we won a cup this year but in fairness its the least coveted of the trophys on offer for english clubs.the final isnt even at the end of the season and the fact that we still have an abismal showing in the league doesnt warrant the title of progression.
my personal opinion is that as long as kenny doesnt lose then he's happy.today was a classic case of that.
i support kenny but have my reservations about him.his signings arent filling me with confidence or his tactics and something has gotta give sooner or later.
he really has to guide us back to the CL next year or else its gonzo for him.

Sums it up perfectly :nod

by **red till i die!!** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:28 pm

i hope from here on in kenny will start giving some of the younger lads a run out.
shelvey should be played and it wouldnt hurt to give coady,suso,sterling and morgan some first team experience.these players are regarded as our attacking future so it makes perfect sense to start integrating them now.

we have been given so many chances this season to overhaul all those around us for 4th spot and yet we constantly fail to deliver and now its long gone from us.the failure to land a striker in january has cost us as up front we havent raised our game and we still have the same problems that dogged the first half of the season.if we continue to play the same people up front then it will stay the same for the rest of the season so i hope kenny doesnt pass up the chance to give something else a try.

by **lakes10** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:35 pm

the race is not over in my view, its been a year of strange results.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:47 pm

Reg wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
friendlyguy33 wrote:I remember you posting on here about a year ago 7_Kewell that you quite liked the lad Villas-Boas and you wanted him to be the Liverpool manager in the summer of 2011 so that Kenny could move back upstairs?

Would you like to revise that opinion in light of Chelsea's current predicament?

nope.

AVB was doomed from the start at Chelsea because the likes of Lampard, Cole, Drogba and Terry have too much power with the chairman. AVB knows full well that Chelsea need a clear out, but his hands are tied. According to reports, roman abramovich has told his manager that cole and lampard MUST PLAY

He hasn't got a hope of building his own team, like he did at Porto. If he was here, i think he would have been given the freedom to build from scratch, which is what we need.

so no...chelseas downfall lies with the chairman and his players who all think they know best.

Agree. I'd say its 80% the players and clubs fault and 20% VB's.

I'd have him at LFC in a flash.

He reminds me of a meerkat bobbing up and down on the line
:laugh:

Fu'ck him

by **Greavesie** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:50 pm

AVB is far too raw to be the man to move us forward should people want a change at management level. I remember Roy's handling of the media and AVB's is in a very similar vain

by **Dundalk** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:52 pm

AVB at Liverpool?

Behave

by **Greavesie** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:54 pm

Dundalk wrote:AVB at Liverpool?

Behave

exactly, end of discussion

by **KennyisGod....still** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:55 pm

we keep on about Carroll and the 35million.... when we HAD to release Torres, Carroll was all that was instantly available. The toon fleeced us, of that theres absolutely no doubt, but thats business. I read somewhere someone sayin we didnt need a striker at the time to replace Nando - well how would that have looked a coupla months into the ownership of FSG? "Selling club!!" would have been the headlines, "New owners, same old ways" etc....
We were bundled into a corner by Torres, held to ransom by Newcastle. If we hadnt bought anyone to replace him we certainly wouldnt have got 50mill in June. Now, we are where we are, which is a trophy down the line, one in the possible near future. Yes, maybe too far off 4th to be realistic but the way this seasons goin anyone around where we are now could still be in with a shout of 4th. Our fixtures aint the toughest run in, and tbh any1 with a little luck yesterday would have wiped the floor with Arsenal. A missed pen, a rushed rebound, 2 against the post and that fluffed volley from Downing just to list a few chances against what was really a poor (1st half specially) Arsenal team. Spurs aint got the easiest game today, Chelsea are droppin points at an alarmin rate. The toon could well get a harder game than they bargained for against Sunderland today. It aint over.

And as yet the fat lady aint out the dressin room, never mind warmin up.

by **red till i die!!** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:01 pm

Greavesie wrote:AVB is far too raw to be the man to move us forward should people want a change at management level. I remember Roy's handling of the media and AVB's is in a very similar vain

i dont think many want a change of management tbh including fsg.
kenny has to be given next year to truly see whether he is the right man or not.

by **Penguins** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:25 pm

KennyisGod....still wrote:we keep on about Carroll and the 35million.... when we HAD to release Torres, Carroll was all that was instantly available. The toon fleeced us, of that theres absolutely no doubt, but thats business. I read somewhere someone sayin we didnt need a striker at the time to replace Nando - well how would that have looked a coupla months into the ownership of FSG? "Selling club!!" would have been the headlines, "New owners, same old ways" etc....
We were bundled into a corner by Torres, held to ransom by Newcastle. If we hadnt bought anyone to replace him we certainly wouldnt have got 50mill in June. Now, we are where we are, which is a trophy down the line, one in the possible near future. Yes, maybe too far off 4th to be realistic but the way this seasons goin anyone around where we are now could still be in with a shout of 4th. Our fixtures aint the toughest run in, and tbh any1 with a little luck yesterday would have wiped the floor with Arsenal. A missed pen, a rushed rebound, 2 against the post and that fluffed volley from Downing just to list a few chances against what was really a poor (1st half specially) Arsenal team. Spurs aint got the easiest game today, Chelsea are droppin points at an alarmin rate. The toon could well get a harder game than they bargained for against Sunderland today. It aint over.

And as yet the fat lady aint out the dressin room, never mind warmin up.

Why?
We could have waited until the summer instead when there were more options. There was no need to rush into a bad deal like that. Caroll was injured for 3 months and did almost not play anything that season anyway.We had just bought Suarez also and the club/owners/manager could easily had gone out and said that we will invest heavily in the summer to appease the fans.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Penguins wrote:
KennyisGod....still wrote:we keep on about Carroll and the 35million.... when we HAD to release Torres, Carroll was all that was instantly available. The toon fleeced us, of that theres absolutely no doubt, but thats business. I read somewhere someone sayin we didnt need a striker at the time to replace Nando - well how would that have looked a coupla months into the ownership of FSG? "Selling club!!" would have been the headlines, "New owners, same old ways" etc....
We were bundled into a corner by Torres, held to ransom by Newcastle. If we hadnt bought anyone to replace him we certainly wouldnt have got 50mill in June. Now, we are where we are, which is a trophy down the line, one in the possible near future. Yes, maybe too far off 4th to be realistic but the way this seasons goin anyone around where we are now could still be in with a shout of 4th. Our fixtures aint the toughest run in, and tbh any1 with a little luck yesterday would have wiped the floor with Arsenal. A missed pen, a rushed rebound, 2 against the post and that fluffed volley from Downing just to list a few chances against what was really a poor (1st half specially) Arsenal team. Spurs aint got the easiest game today, Chelsea are droppin points at an alarmin rate. The toon could well get a harder game than they bargained for against Sunderland today. It aint over.

And as yet the fat lady aint out the dressin room, never mind warmin up.

Why?
We could have waited until the summer instead when there were more options. There was no need to rush into a bad deal like that. Caroll was injured for 3 months and did almost not play anything that season anyway.We had just bought Suarez also and the club/owners/manager could easily had gone out and said that we will invest heavily in the summer to appease the fans.

Rafa bought Aquilani who was injured. Purple nose bought an injured Van Nistelroy
So what?
Its done and hes here.

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