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Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:57 pm

aCe' wrote:Im sick of this. Suarez is childish, deserved his ban, should have shook hands with Evra, and shouldnt have booted the ball the way he did at half time. That said, the reaction to the whole thing is way overboard. The media were always going to pick up on it and it was always going to cause some more negative publicity in our direction. The fans however should know better imo. Calling for Suarez to be suspended further or for him and Kenny to be sacked from the club over this are just crazy. Like many have pointed out the whole handshake thing isnt a big deal in football. Sure people will talk about it for a few days but thats as far as it should go imo. Ferdinand did the same for Suarez and no one seems to give that a mention. Evra's actions at the end of the game and reportedly during half time are far worse than what Suarez did on the night and even then I dont think anything should be made of them.

This whole PR thing is something I thought we should have worked on from the day the Suarez racism thing came to light. The players AND Kenny dont seem to know what to say or how to act when asked the hard questions and thats always going to put us under unneeded pressure.

top post and totally agree
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Postby supersub » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:25 pm

7_Kewell wrote:
aCe' wrote:Im sick of this. Suarez is childish, deserved his ban, should have shook hands with Evra, and shouldnt have booted the ball the way he did at half time. That said, the reaction to the whole thing is way overboard. The media were always going to pick up on it and it was always going to cause some more negative publicity in our direction. The fans however should know better imo. Calling for Suarez to be suspended further or for him and Kenny to be sacked from the club over this are just crazy. Like many have pointed out the whole handshake thing isnt a big deal in football. Sure people will talk about it for a few days but thats as far as it should go imo. Ferdinand did the same for Suarez and no one seems to give that a mention. Evra's actions at the end of the game and reportedly during half time are far worse than what Suarez did on the night and even then I dont think anything should be made of them.

This whole PR thing is something I thought we should have worked on from the day the Suarez racism thing came to light. The players AND Kenny dont seem to know what to say or how to act when asked the hard questions and thats always going to put us under unneeded pressure.

top post and totally agree

not surprised you 2 are in agreement :laugh:
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Liverpool must spell out to Luis Suarez why his refusal to shake Patrice Evra's hand was wrong or risk tarnishing the club's reputation still further, according to Martin Samuel.

Suarez snubbed Evra before Liverpool's 2-1 defeat to Manchester United - a match in which he made his first start for the Reds since completing an eight-match ban for racially abusing Evra in October.

Samuel, chief sports writer of the Daily Mail, told the Sunday Supplement that Suarez's actions sent out entirely the wrong message.

"I think it was a disgraceful thing to do and I think it set the tone for the afternoon - and it was a thoroughly depressing afternoon for English football, and quite a depressing afternoon for Liverpool Football Club because it would seem a monster has been created here," said Samuel.

"By really not explaining to Suarez that he should have apologised to Evra and that what he did was wrong, they've created a guy who thinks he is beyond any sort of judgement. He really had to accept yesterday that the thing to do was - if Evra put out his hand - to shake his hand and then that's the first step towards any form of rehabilitation.

"He's a wonderful player and Liverpool is a great club with a great tradition, and it deserves better than this but he [Suarez] set the tone and everything else that followed as a result of the handshake."

Damaged

United's Rio Ferdinand subsequently declined to shake Suarez's hand and emotions boiled over a half-time when, according to Sky reports, some players squared up to each other in the tunnel. The atmosphere was further soured on the final whistle when Evra celebrated United's win alongside Suarez.

"There was nothing in that yesterday that was of any benefit to Liverpool whatsoever," reflected Samuel. "They didn't win the game - it didn't inspire some fantastic victory at Old Trafford. You just think 'what are you getting out of this?'

"I know in the past managers have used this siege-mentality, 'the world's against you', and then you'll bind together and go out. But there's a difference between giving the players the impression that the world's against you and actually behaving in such a way that is quite literally turning the world against you.

"Liverpool have got no friends in this and it must be a very lonely place to be at the moment, around that Liverpool club, because I can't think of anybody neutral who can see it from their point of view. Everybody thinks 'now we've just got to get on with it'.

"This is not a situation that is improving. If anything, it is getting more and more uncomfortable for Liverpool and their reputation is becoming increasingly damaged.

"You would hope that Suarez has acted against the wishes of the club. You would hope that somebody from the club sat down with him and said 'this is what we expect you to do'. Maybe Liverpool have got to spell out exactly what they expect from Suarez now, the role he has to play in getting rid of this stigma that is being increasingly attached to Liverpool because it can only be done by him."

Warfare
Saturday's incidents have renewed the debate about whether players should shake hands before kick-off. Samuel believes that if the practice is to continue, it should be strictly enforced.

"In football it just seems that with any rule that you bring in, someone works out how to use it for some other nefarious reason or works out how to play the rules," he said.

"The handshake has now become the sort of first stage of psychological warfare between the two teams - will they or won't they shake hands? Who is going to judge who?

"This will solve it overnight: you shake hands or it's a charge of bringing the game into disrepute. You do that or you abandon it altogether. It's got to be one or the other.

"I would talk to the clubs and the players about how they feel about it but if you are going to shake hands, not shaking hands should be a disrepute charge otherwise it will continue to be used for these reasons. It will continue to be used to up the ante, to ramp up the tension. That is the complete opposite of what the action was supposed to represent. It was supposed to be a sporting gesture before the game started."
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Postby supersub » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:27 pm

andy_g wrote:
supersub wrote:Talk about over-reacting...affect sponsorship, stadium naming rights...I hope the plastic fans and WUM's fu.ck off and support Chelsea

not such an over reaction really. financial rackets like sponsorship deals and naming rights are becoming mainstays of economical and sporting success of the modern football club. this in a world that is becoming increasingly PC. brands are more and more wary of even the slightest possibility of tarnishing their name by associations with other brands that the public deem 'bad' by whatever definition. truth and public perception are often a million miles apart as we know all too well.

bottom line is Liverpool FC will still generate money for the sponsors and that is the what they want.....
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THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:29 pm

John Barnes insists Luis Suarez should never have been put in the position where he had to choose whether to shake Patrice Evra's hand on Saturday, and the former Liverpool winger says the media is to blame for the current fallout from Old Trafford.

Suarez sparked controversy ahead of Liverpool's 2-1 defeat at Manchester United, appearing to refuse the hand of Evra - the man who accused him of racial abuse earlier this season. As a result, United boss Sir Alex Ferguson labelled Suarez a "disgrace to Liverpool Football Club".

However, Barnes believes it would have been fake for Suarez to have shaken Evra's hand, and he is convinced that the media is chief culprit for inciting bad blood between the two clubs. In Barnes' eyes, United and Liverpool would have moved past the situation long ago had the media not persisted in keeping it in the public eye.

"I can tell you they won't be making a big issue over either of the Suarez or John Terry situations in other countries," Barnes told ESPN. "The reputation of English football around the world is not going to be damaged at all.

"I don't care if somebody shakes my hand or not. It's not a big deal, it's insincere, it doesn't mean much, they're shaking hands for show. I don't believe they should be put in that situation.

"We're getting carried away with a bunch of incidents here that, in the bigger picture, don't mean much. Football clubs have to react to it because of what we do in the media. The reality is if Suarez scores 50 goals and United win the league, it's not really important.

"We're making a mountain out of a molehill. We are not the custodians of moral value in the world, we think we are but we're not. There's worse things happening in the world, worse things happening in the country, everything should not be laid at footballers' doors."

Barnes is convinced the handshake ritual should have been scrapped at Old Trafford, but he also believes Evra was as much to blame over the next 90 minutes as Suarez. The United man celebrated directly in the face of Suarez at the full-time whistle, and Barnes insists neither club has come out of the day with any credit.

"I assumed when it was decided that there was going to be the ritual handshake that everybody had agreed that they would shake hands," Barnes said. "When I saw what happened, it made me wonder if Suarez had changed his mind at the last minute.

"I can't imagine that this wasn't discussed by Liverpool. If Luis Suarez said, 'I'm not shaking his hand', which he has every right to if he doesn't want to, then Liverpool should have made all attempts not to have this situation whereby they have to come into confrontation with each other.

"It's a big shock, and obviously it got compounded by Patrice Evra at the end and Sir Alex Ferguson at the end. So it's not a good day from a PR perspective for either club."

Kevin Keegan, also formerly of Liverpool, felt Ferguson was wrong to comment so strongly on Suarez at the full-time whistle. Ferguson stated his belief that the striker should never play for the Reds again, something Keegan argued.

"It's a very strong statement and it's unusual to comment on another club's player," Keegan said. "To come out and say a player shouldn't play for another club is wrong.

"Instead of calming this down they've allowed it to escalate. These are the two biggest clubs in English football. Both clubs have handled it badly.

"Today was a chance to put it all behind them. It was a chance to say to the player, 'Shake his hand and get on with it'. But Evra after the game, why would he want to do that? You've won the game; sometimes as a manager you just don't understand players."
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Postby worcester_red » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:29 pm

supersub wrote:Talk about over-reacting...affect sponsorship, stadium naming rights...I hope the plastic fans and WUM's fu.ck off and support Chelsea

by plastic fans do you include Warrior and Standard Chartered?

If you don't think this is a major concern to the owners then with all due respect you clearly have bugger all idea about business.

I admire your passion but to defend Suarez when he lied to Kenny and childishly refused to shake Evra's hand is a bit misguided in my opinion.

Personally I support the club not necessarily all the individuals in it, there is a difference.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:30 pm

supersub wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
aCe' wrote:Im sick of this. Suarez is childish, deserved his ban, should have shook hands with Evra, and shouldnt have booted the ball the way he did at half time. That said, the reaction to the whole thing is way overboard. The media were always going to pick up on it and it was always going to cause some more negative publicity in our direction. The fans however should know better imo. Calling for Suarez to be suspended further or for him and Kenny to be sacked from the club over this are just crazy. Like many have pointed out the whole handshake thing isnt a big deal in football. Sure people will talk about it for a few days but thats as far as it should go imo. Ferdinand did the same for Suarez and no one seems to give that a mention. Evra's actions at the end of the game and reportedly during half time are far worse than what Suarez did on the night and even then I dont think anything should be made of them.

This whole PR thing is something I thought we should have worked on from the day the Suarez racism thing came to light. The players AND Kenny dont seem to know what to say or how to act when asked the hard questions and thats always going to put us under unneeded pressure.

top post and totally agree

not surprised you 2 are in agreement :laugh:

we can't all post piffy one liners like you Supersub or match your superior stand as a supporter.  :)


























:laugh:
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:37 pm

worcester_red wrote:
supersub wrote:Talk about over-reacting...affect sponsorship, stadium naming rights...I hope the plastic fans and WUM's fu.ck off and support Chelsea

by plastic fans do you include Warrior and Standard Chartered?

If you don't think this is a major concern to the owners then with all due respect you clearly have bugger all idea about business.

I admire your passion but to defend Suarez when he lied to Kenny and childishly refused to shake Evra's hand is a bit misguided in my opinion.

Personally I support the club not necessarily all the individuals in it, there is a difference.

Your overreaction to the events yesterday are embaressing !

Yesterday you were wanting both Suarez and Kenny sacked and now your talking about us losing sponsership !!

Get a grip !!
Last edited by Benny The Noon on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby woof woof ! » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:41 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:"I can tell you they won't be making a big issue over either of the Suarez or John Terry situations in other countries," Barnes told ESPN. "The reputation of English football around the world is not going to be damaged at all.

Click for interview.

Barnes and Keegan on ESPN
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Postby worcester_red » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
worcester_red wrote:
supersub wrote:Talk about over-reacting...affect sponsorship, stadium naming rights...I hope the plastic fans and WUM's fu.ck off and support Chelsea

by plastic fans do you include Warrior and Standard Chartered?

If you don't think this is a major concern to the owners then with all due respect you clearly have bugger all idea about business.

I admire your passion but to defend Suarez when he lied to Kenny and childishly refused to shake Evra's hand is a bit misguided in my opinion.

Personally I support the club not necessarily all the individuals in it, there is a difference.

Your overreaction to the events yesterday are embaressing !

Yesterday you were wanting both Suarez and Kenny sacked and now your talking about us losing sponsership !!

Get a grip !!

I have a grip, a grip of reality that is. This is a complete mess and mark my words there will be fallout form it. For example I would imagine Mr Ayre's is having some very uncomfortable telephone conversations with sponsors at the moment and Kenny similar talks with the owners, Suarez is probably chatting with his inner demons who are applauding him.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:44 pm

worcester_red wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
worcester_red wrote:
supersub wrote:Talk about over-reacting...affect sponsorship, stadium naming rights...I hope the plastic fans and WUM's fu.ck off and support Chelsea

by plastic fans do you include Warrior and Standard Chartered?

If you don't think this is a major concern to the owners then with all due respect you clearly have bugger all idea about business.

I admire your passion but to defend Suarez when he lied to Kenny and childishly refused to shake Evra's hand is a bit misguided in my opinion.

Personally I support the club not necessarily all the individuals in it, there is a difference.

Your overreaction to the events yesterday are embaressing !

Yesterday you were wanting both Suarez and Kenny sacked and now your talking about us losing sponsership !!

Get a grip !!

I have a grip, a grip of reality that is. This is a complete mess and mark my words there will be fallout form it. For example I would imagine Mr Ayre's is having some very uncomfortable telephone conversations with sponsors at the moment and Kenny similar talks with the owners, Suarez is probably chatting with his inner demons who are applauding him.

You do realise the main episode happened months ago and since then Warrior confirmed there sponsership for next season !!!

You are as bad as the media in your reaction ! Asking for them to be sacked - that's exactly what Ferguson said !! I expect that is no coincendence.
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Postby worcester_red » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:55 pm

Image
Oh no my friend, the main episode happened yesterday, a game seen all round the world, because Liverpool and Man Utd are the two most popular teams internationally (from the prem). Instead of discussing the football everyone will be focussing on the behaviour of Suarez and the club, it is not good at all and sponsorship deals have been dropped for far less.
Last edited by woof woof ! on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bad Bob » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:33 pm

I'm confused by one thing: didn't the FA call off the pre-match handshake between Chelsea and QPR the other week just to avoid this kind of circus?  If so, why was it not called off yesterday?  Is it possible that this is a media circus the FA wants to let play out because it doesn't actually involve English players?  What a shambles.
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Postby Greavesie » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Bad Bob wrote:I'm confused by one thing: didn't the FA call off the pre-match handshake between Chelsea and QPR the other week just to avoid this kind of circus?  If so, why was it not called off yesterday?  Is it possible that this is a media circus the FA wants to let play out because it doesn't actually involve English players?  What a shambles.

simple answer Bob, yes. If Suarez was English he'd be protected to the hilt. Dare I suggest the FA discriminate against foreigner players?  :D
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Postby Dundalk » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:37 pm

Bad Bob wrote:I'm confused by one thing: didn't the FA call off the pre-match handshake between Chelsea and QPR the other week just to avoid this kind of circus?  If so, why was it not called off yesterday?  Is it possible that this is a media circus the FA wants to let play out because it doesn't actually involve English players?  What a shambles.

The entire QPR team had said behind doors that they were not going to shake Terrys hand so they had to call it off
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