Liverpool FC Forum

by **dundreamin** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:52 am

Had a big think about this, and a top 4 finish is now just a dream. It's not going to happen. I want it to,but we are just not good enough. Imo. Apart from a couple of good results this season, arsenal and cheaski away we basically have been s.*i*e.

by **jimmy brighton** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:02 am

A little bit on the over-reactory side there mate. We still haven't found our consistency be we will get there. Arsenil and Cheatski are well within our reach and the Spuds may falter yet so who knows? Me, I'm expecting 3rd.

by **Kerry07** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:04 am

The signings have cost us.

You live and die by your signings... rather than make us stronger we have become weaker. 5 of the front 6 that started vs Blackburn were Kenny signings... in what was the worst first half since the Hodgson era. Had 4 of those not signed we'd be no worse off....Henderson (Spearing), Carroll (Ngog scored 5 more at this stage last year), Downing (Maxi), Adam (Meireles).., those in brackets (who we had a year ago) are ahead.

The one positive has been Suarez, who has eclipsed the completely out of form Torres. Thats been the solitary highlight of the year. The other signings have not been good enough, and one in particular has been disastrous.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:07 am

its not over yet, were quite fortunate that Arsenal and Chelsea have been as inconsisent as we have so we are still in with a chance, though i have severe doubts that we are good enough to overtake both of them, especially Chelsea. If we get a goalscorer in January and some of our big money flops show improvement we still have a chance, but i must admit i cant see us finishing higher than 5th.

by **Kharhaz** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:37 am

We have been the unluckiest team in the premiership. We have hit the bar more times than anyone, and Goalkeepers love Anfield more than any other stadium. We will finish top 4, our luck has to change. It simply has to.

by **Kerry07** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:58 am

Kharhaz wrote:We have been the unluckiest team in the premiership. We have hit the bar more times than anyone, and Goalkeepers love Anfield more than any other stadium. We will finish top 4, our luck has to change. It simply has to.

the harder (better) you work the luckier you become. We havent been good enough.. simple as.

When people state "man u are the jammiest team in the league.. always seem to get a late goal". Its not luck, its not being jammy, its because they've peppered the opposing team goal that sooner or later one will go in (against an increasingly tired opponent).

The reason we dont score enough is because we dont have a clinical finisher. Trotting out the number of times we have hit the post (which is wide btw) doesnt lessen the poor finishing. Our two most prolific players over the past 4 years (Gerrard and Torres) we have not been able to call on. Its about signing adequate replacements which we haven't done. Change Carroll for a half decent striker we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'd also add that we have had our fair share of luck this season.. Rodwell getting sent off for nothing at the bitters, three own goals in our favour in wins against Arsenal, Wolves and the equaliser vs Man City.

We havent been good enough, and for our "luck to turn" we have to be much better, and sign much better.

by **Octsky** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:31 am

people need to get a :censored:

.ing grip,
half the team is new, people expect we spend big and win the title immediately.
if this is the case, real madrid will be the best team in the world right now.
even Barca is a team that was work in progress for a few years since Frank Rjjkard.

what we are trying to emulate is to spend trusting more on statistic than on conventional scouts.

very similar to the movie "moneyball" inspired by true events in the american baseball league,
pitt's team in the movie was near bottom of the league before going on to break the league'e record on consecutive wins. without giving away any spoilers, Boston red took up his method of choosing players and the rest is history.
Results take time, there is no shortcuts.

by **Kerry07** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:37 am

Octsky wrote:people need to get a f.ing grip,
half the team is new, people expect we spend big and win the title immediately.
if this is the case, real madrid will be the best team in the world right now.
even Barca is a team that was work in progress for a few years since Frank Rjjkard.

what we are trying to emulate is to spend trusting more on statistic than on conventional scouts.

very similar to the movie "moneyball" inspired by true events in the american baseball league,
pitt's team in the movie was near bottom of the league before going on to break the league'e record on consecutive wins. without giving away any spoilers, Boston red took up his method of choosing players and the rest is history.
Results take time, there is no shortcuts.

theres enough waffle there to last you a lifetime. Moneyball, Brad Pitt, Hollywood.. mickey mouse... pluto... :idea

You sign good players, you become better. We havent signed good players hence are not better.

Its really very simple.

To address your comment about Real Madrid.. after signing good players, in their first season they got the second highest points total in la liga history (second only to the team that won it the same year).

man u won very very little in whiskey's first six years.. because he spent a fortune on average players... Neil Webb, Jim Leighton, Danny Wallace, Mike Phelan, Brian McClair (£2million British record). It was only when these players were replaced by quality (Schmeichel for Leighton, Kanchelskis for Webb, Giggs for Wallace, Cantona for McClair).. thats when they started challenging.

Unlike whiskey, Wenger got it right from the get go... Vieria, Petit, Anelka, Overmars.. all signed within 7 months of his arrival...and as a result champions 21 months after he first walked into Highbury.

In todays climate... you get left behind so fast in just 1 year of missing out on CL. Its imperative to make good signings, we have not. Thats the bottom line.

by **devaney** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:39 am

dundreamin wrote:Had a big think about this, and a top 4 finish is now just a dream. It's not going to happen. I want it to,but we are just not good enough. Imo. Apart from a couple of good results this season, arsenal and cheaski away we basically have been s.*i*e.

Honestly can't remember the last time I read such utter sh.ite - sorry mate but just consider exactly what you have said !!

Our expectations at the beginning of the season were extremely high. Kenny was expected to wave a magic wand a win everything.The new players were expected to be exceptional from day one. The woes of the recent past were expected to disappear overnight.

The reality is that at times we have looked fantastic. A key problem is that we haven't been consistent. Losing players like Lucas and Gerrard doesn't help.Luck hasn't been on our side when you think we hold some kind of weird record for hitting the woodwork.Three missed penalties also doesn't help.Kenny's getting used to the Premiership and some of his tactics have been questionable.The new players except for Suarez and Enrique are taking longer than expected to settle in.This all adds up to a minimum loss of eight points and just look at where that would put us.

We are a few points off fourth place and the season can be brought back on track. Dismissing our ability to finish in the top four at this stage is rubbish.

by **Johnny Boy** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:51 am

Having watched Tottenham last night I think they will finish above us, they have pace on both flanks, a striker in form, world class creativity in Modric and Van der Vaart, a solid back four and a decent squad.

We lack their flair , especially in midfield.

However, I still think we can finish above Chelsea and Arsenal, but only if we start winning our home games, to do that we may need to bring in a couple of quality players we seem to lack at the moment.

by **eds** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:05 am

dundreamin wrote:Had a big think about this, and a top 4 finish is now just a dream. It's not going to happen. I want it to,but we are just not good enough. Imo. Apart from a couple of good results this season, arsenal and cheaski away we basically have been s.*i*e.

It's a hard one to call mate, I know its easy to throw in the towel right now because of a miserable, miserable result against Blackburn but we have to have faith in our side, no matter what.

I wasn't impressed from day one on the English signings Kenny brought in 5 months ago. They were never players to rival the likes of Manure, Cheatski and Man $hity. Although I really got excited when Fabregas and Nasri left the Gooners, it has all but disappated with Tottenham's ridiculous form.

I will reserve my judgement until the end of January. If we don't sign another striker or creative midfielder in this window we can kiss fourth place goodbye. The problem I have is that Kenny will just go out and buy another English flop, we are crying out for a player like Hazard and need to seriously think about taking a financial risk to get someone like him.

by **eds** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:10 am

Johnny Boy wrote:However, I still think we can finish above Chelsea and Arsenal, but only if we start winning our home games, to do that we may need to bring in a couple of quality players we seem to lack at the moment.

It all depends on what Chelsea do and what we do in January. If they go and sign another Mata and we sign another Adam or Downing, we are all but f**ked. I don't think Arsenal have enough in their kitty to buy anyone, but who knows.

by **eds** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:15 am

devaney wrote:Our expectations at the beginning of the season were extremely high. Kenny was expected to wave a magic wand a win everything.The new players were expected to be exceptional from day one. The woes of the recent past were expected to disappear overnight.

Sorry mate, you are talking absoulate s**t. No one on this forum said anything about winning the league back then. If you actually cared to read what people had to say most agreed that 4th place was a realistic target with the signings we brought in.

Even know the consensus is still the same......4th place or bust. On the money Kenny has spent we SHOULD not be dropping points to the likes of f**king Norwich, Wigan, Blackburn, etc as we have this season, simple as! If he gets it wrong in January, which there is a real concern he will, I don't think he will be at the helm next season.

by **Kerry07** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:24 am

We sign one top class striker (in early January)... we will finish top 4... no doubt about it.

We have
Top class goalkeeper
Top class defence
Decent midfield (with Gerrard back)
Upfront: Suarez (and a new top class striker)

Not just a good finisher, but also one who is good on the floor and can fit in with the play. Without signing a quality forward, and with Suarez out for 8 games as it looks like.. im in no doubt our season will be over by the beginning of February.

by **alwayslfc** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:43 am

4th place finish is not out of the question yet. Forget about catching Spurs, they're already out of reach. It's only Chelsea and Arsenal I'm looking at and lucky for us they dropped points over the christmas period as well. I agree with most of you,if we sign a good quality striker and a playmaker next month we're still in with a chance. If we keep the same team esp. with the impending 8 match ban on Suarez, then it's bye bye 4th place and could even be Bye Bye Kenny from Henry.

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