Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:54 am

well the day is finally here folks. the debate goes to parliament tonight. scheduled to start at 7pm.

will post links closer to the time as a lot of them are not available for people outside of the uk.

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:28 pm

stmichael wrote:well the day is finally here folks. the debate goes to parliament tonight. scheduled to start at 7pm.

will post links closer to the time as a lot of them are not available for people outside of the uk.

I have heard that the debate is now at 6pm? Would be great to get this topic moved to the main section were more people will see it

by **Roger Red Hat** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:15 pm

'scuse my ignorance but if they allow these documents to be released what could it mean? how will it effect anything? i don't understand what could be in these documents/files

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:36 pm

moved to the main section of the forum to hopefully give this a wider audience.

should be able to watch here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/default.stm

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Got this on Rawk... Andy Burnham is MP for Leigh and led the campaign for the full disclosure of Hillsborough papers.

In dusty box files in the House of Lords, there are thousands of badly photocopied papers.

They look inconsequential. They are anything but.

The boxes contain personal statements from police officers who witnessed at first hand one of the biggest peacetime disasters in our country’s history. They are painful to read, so terrible are the scenes they describe.

One in particular stands out. It is the hand-written statement of PC 227 from Woodseats Police Station. These are his recollections in those crucial moments just after 3pm on April 15 1989:

“I realised a great tragedy had occurred. I began to feel myself being overcome with emotion, but soon realised I would be of no use to anyone if I felt sorry for myself.

“I was assisted out of the terracing and onto the pitch. I saw several officers wandering about in a dazed and confused state.

“Some were crying and some simply sat on the grass. Members of the public were running about with boarding ferrying people from the pitch to the far end of the ground.”

PC 227’s words evoke the haunting TV images people were later to see replayed time and time again. There can be little doubt of their sincerity.

But they are not the only words on the page. Attached to the top-right corner of the statement is a note from a senior officer. It reads: “Last 2 pages require amending. These are his own feelings. He also states that PCs were sat down crying when the fans were carrying the dead and injured. This shows they were organised and we were not. Have PC rewrite last 2 pages excluding the points mentioned.”

These are shocking words. And they go to the heart of the untold story of Hillsborough.

They open the door to understanding why, 22 years on, people’s sense of injustice is as strong as ever. “They were organised and we were not” – chilling words which transport us back to a different time: an era of “them and us”, when football fans were the “enemy within”.

They reveal an orchestrated campaign to put a slant on the events at Hillsborough so blame was shifted off the authorities and on to the victims, their friends and families.

PC 227’s statement was not the only one amended. So were many more, removing references to police failure on the day such as the lack of proper radio communications.

In today’s Freedom of Information age, it is hard to imagine how, after a disaster in which 96 poor innocent souls lost their lives, the truth could be shaded in this way.

There are many things about Hillsborough forgotten or not widely known which, when reconsidered by the standards of today, would cause a public outcry: How the Sheffield ground didn’t have a safety certificate. How the first lie was told as early as 3.15pm by the officer in charge, claiming Liverpool fans had forced a gate that was opened by the police.

How an order was given that the bodies, including the youngest, should be tested for booze.

How families at Hillsborough that night were cross-examined as if they had come to identify a suspect, not their loved ones. How a person in authority could sink so low as to brief lies about Liverpool fans to a newspaper – that they pick-pocketed victims, urinated on police and attacked one giving the kiss of life – and how that newspaper could write them without a shred of substantiating evidence. Each one of these things, by today’s standards, is a scandal in its own right.

That is why the sense of injustice remains so strong on Merseyside. But, as time passed, the rest of the country began to forget the detail.

But, in 2009, something changed with the memorial service at Anfield for the 20th anniversary. I had been invited as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. I agonised with my brothers about whether I should go.

Hillsborough affected us all on a personal level and no issue matters more to this Everton fan. We were at the other semi-final that day and had many friends at the Liverpool match. I had doubts about whether I could keep my composure.

But I also knew the presence of a minister would be provocative. I didn’t know what I could say convincingly, as I shared the disappointments many had about my own Government’s record on the issue. In the end, I felt I had to be there and I look back at that decision now as the best I have ever made. The reaction of the Kop reminded the rest of the country there was a deep, unresolved injustice. In advance, with Maria Eagle MP, I had made a call for full disclosure of papers. Next day, I took this call to the Cabinet and received the full backing of Gordon Brown.

The Hillsborough Independent Panel was established and ever since it has been painstakingly reviewing all documents in the tragedy.

But one issue was not adequately resolved – whether the Panel would be able to break precedent and publish Cabinet papers.

It came to the fore in the summer with a Freedom of Information request. At first, it appeared the Government was fighting the ruling from the Information Commissioner to prevent publication.

An e-petition was launched and support for full publication flooded in from all over the land. These 140,000 voices have now swept Hillsborough back to the Commons. If it votes for the motion, the momentum towards publication of all documents and the whole truth on Hillsborough will be unstoppable.

I don’t know what they will reveal. But I know enough about Hillsborough to be clear about one thing: how our country ever allowed the victims of a terrible disaster to be denied their rights and denigrated is a national scandal that will deserve a national response.

For 22 years, despite the obstacles and insults, the families have pursued their campaign with dignity.

None of us should rest until they have finally prevailed.

Andy Burnham is MP for Leigh and led the campaign for the full disclosure of Hillsborough papers.

by **NorfolkRed** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:52 pm

debate has started - can watch on the parliament channel

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:53 pm

steve rotherham speaking really well

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Any updates for those of us on the other side of the pond?

by **Dalglish** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 pm

The Government has AGREED to release all previously withheld Documents pertaining to the Hillsborough Disaster to the families of the 96.

Justice moves a step closer.

Walk on ...............RIP 96

by **metalhead** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:33 pm

Really good news! hopefully the families will get justice very very soon :buttrock

by **metalhead** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:54 pm

The Wirral South MP can't hold the tears, some powerful stuff!

by **jimmy brighton** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:11 pm

Andy Burnham gives a very good account of the horrors of that day. David Anderson giving a good account of himself as I type.
''We owe the 96 that justice is done"

by **jimmy brighton** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:14 pm

John Woodcock saying that after 22 years something has to be done. "We have to stand behind the people of Liverpool. This is an injustice"

by **jimmy brighton** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:33 pm

Tom Greatrex has just given a very moving and powerful condemnation of the culprits involved and the Sun

by **jimmy brighton** » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:34 pm

The Sun will severely pay at fuking last!!!

Liverpool FC Forum

Hillsborough files to be released - Finally going to Parliament 17th October

Who is online