Liverpool FC Forum

by **parchpea** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:16 pm

I think for all of us the expectation was a 4th place finish and thats in line with the owners and management but from what we have seen so far its my opinion we may struggle to achieve it. At this point we can hang on the fact we have Gerrard returning and a new group who it is hoped will improve as the season moves on and they certainly will have to. Unless there is a real improvement between now and Christmas I can see us having to get the cheque book out again in January to give ourselves a chance of that last Champs League spot. If I had to call it now I thin Spurs look a better side than us and we will have to pick up our game quite a bit to move ahead of them by the end.

by **crazyhorse** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:34 pm

parchpea wrote:I think for all of us the expectation was a 4th place finish and thats in line with the owners and management but from what we have seen so far its my opinion we may struggle to achieve it. At this point we can hang on the fact we have Gerrard returning and a new group who it is hoped will improve as the season moves on and they certainly will have to. Unless there is a real improvement between now and Christmas I can see us having to get the cheque book out again in January to give ourselves a chance of that last Champs League spot. If I had to call it now I thin Spurs look a better side than us and we will have to pick up our game quite a bit to move ahead of them by the end.

I hate to agree, but I do. 4th is a massive ask.

I am not saying we wont do it, but we are still 2 or 3 players short in my opinion. Basically to finish 4th you have to have a squad with which you believe is ood enough to win it. We are short of that extra 5% in my opinion.

We will be very close, and if we stay injury free we may just sneak in there. But to do it would be an amazing achievment.

What is most important is not to get down hearted. We will be there in the next few seasons. I think we could win the title within 3 years.

by **jimmy brighton** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:39 pm

Likely to agree with the last couple of posts but I feel there is two ways of looking at this.
Pessimism-read the two previous posts.
Optimism-Kenny has dished out £100 million smackeroonies, which may sound a lot in this day and age but it ain't considering he's replaced at least half the team. Just seven games in and we are sitting fifth with a team that has not 'gelled' yet. Not at all. Shown a few moments of brilliance but generally quite mediocre and yet we're still in fifth just 6 points behind the manx crew.
Okay you may think that the players have not been good enough as yet but please give it a bit more time and they may show signs of turning it around,
Remember you are just expecting a top 4 finish so Kenny's team may well yet exceed your target

by **Kenny Kan** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:40 pm

I don't think 4th is a "massive" ask, I think we should be quite capable of achieving 4th.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:08 am

Kenny Kan wrote:I don't think 4th is a "massive" ask, I think we should be quite capable of achieving 4th.

I agree totally. We have more than enough within the squad to easily achieve 4th place. The whole atmosphere has changed massively, and you will be hard pressed to find a more content squad than what we have here.

Once the team starts to gel properly you will see a much improved performance from game to game. Look at United without Rooney, they are average, then look at city, yeah against the lesser teams they look impressive but when they face a decent team, not so good, in fact, boring. Then chelsea, yawn, last season we sucked, and we still did the double over them.

4th place is easily achievable.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:26 pm

Ok why don't we just say it's neither a massive ask nor is it easily achievable... And agree that 4th is achievable and that's it...

by **aCe'** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:51 pm

Given the circumstances, a top4 finish should have been a given this season. On the one hand, our main competition for the spot have both sold key players and barely spent anything to replace them. Arsenal lost their 2 best players and crumbled while Tottenham did better than we did in the market despite earning around 20mill by selling and buying smart. On the other hand, you have us spending close to 120mill in the last 6 months to improve a side that has generally been close to Arsenal and Tottenham in terms of player quality and league standing.

Given everything, we should be in a much better position (in terms of both league points and performances) than we are today. Personally, I dont think we have any more problems with players blending in than any of the other top sides do. Our main problems stem from the fact that some of our new acquisitions have failed to miraculously improve their games enough for them to be good enough for the club like many seemed to believe they would. Henderson is young but imo it would be silly to even suggest that given games, he would suddenly become a top play or will add goals and assists to his game. Its a similar situation with Carroll and Adam who for me are both limited in certain aspects and no amount of games will make Adam a better tackler/a more mobile player or improve Carroll's ball control and build up play.

That said, it could be suggested that Kenny is yet to figure out how to utilize the likes of Adam and Carroll and that our displays/results will improve once he consistently does but then again the likes of Tottenham, Arsenal and even Stoke could make similar claims and it would mean nothing until they are realized.

My point is, we have shot ourselves in the foot a little with our poor spending in the past 6months and while we still have a chance of making 4th this season, it certainly should have been a much more comfortable cruise to 4th place this season than we're currently witnessing.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:54 pm

aCe' wrote:Given the circumstances, a top4 finish should have been a given this season. On the one hand, our main competition for the spot have both sold key players and barely spent anything to replace them. Arsenal lost their 2 best players and crumbled while Tottenham did better than we did in the market despite earning around 20mill by selling and buying smart. On the other hand, you have us spending close to 120mill in the last 6 months to improve a side that has generally been close to Arsenal and Tottenham in terms of player quality and league standing.

Given everything, we should be in a much better position (in terms of both league points and performances) than we are today. Personally, I dont think we have any more problems with players blending in than any of the other top sides do. Our main problems stem from the fact that some of our new acquisitions have failed to miraculously improve their games enough for them to be good enough for the club like many seemed to believe they would. Henderson is young but imo it would be silly to even suggest that given games, he would suddenly become a top play or will add goals and assists to his game. Its a similar situation with Carroll and Adam who for me are both limited in certain aspects and no amount of games will make Adam a better tackler/a more mobile player or improve Carroll's ball control and build up play.

That said, it could be suggested that Kenny is yet to figure out how to utilize the likes of Adam and Carroll and that our displays/results will improve once he consistently does but then again the likes of Tottenham, Arsenal and even Stoke could make similar claims and it would mean nothing until they are realized.

My point is, we have shot ourselves in the foot a little with our poor spending in the past 6months and while we still have a chance of making 4th this season, it certainly should have been a much more comfortable cruise to 4th place this season than we're currently witnessing.

Hmmmm
Have to disagree. I am very pleased with the way weve played and where we are and I am 100% certain we will finish in the top 4 (we will win the league by the way).
I think youre being unrealistic and quite ignorant if you think our players wont improve. Why you think we should be cruising is a mystery when we have new players getting to know each other and adapt to each others game. Plus the injuries we have had has had a dramatic effect on the team selection. Patience is a virtue you seem to lack and to write us off at such an early stage is frankly baffling

by **parchpea** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:15 pm

We purchased expensive Premiership footballers not because we love spending big money but because there was an expectancy they would hit he ground running and get us top 4 this year. Surely this was much of the thinking behind the whole transfer policy after seeing money wasted on foreign imports who couldnt settle or play Premiership football. If we dont start to see a quicker return on investment despite buying British I expect they will soon tear up that plan and go back buying foreign and sharpish. We are not chucking multi millions at footballers to nurture them through a career, you do that with the academy lads, so no matter what they say in public these buys are expected to perform and get us that 4th place this year and anything less will be seen as a failure.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:54 pm

We have played 7 games. We are in 5th place. 2 points behind 4th, 3 points behind 3rd and 6 points behind the leaders. The skanks have got off to an absolute flyer but will only be 3 points ahead of us when we beat them on saturday.
I agree, we are in a terrible state and probably will get relegated if we carry on like we are
:laugh:

You couldnt make it up

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:00 pm

All this talk that "we spent poorly" needs to be put in some perspective. From a "quick fix" perspective there may be some sort of decent point there. But we haven't spent for a quick fix. We have spent for the long haul. PATIENCE.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:09 pm

The Good Yank wrote:All this talk that "we spent poorly" needs to be put in some perspective. From a "quick fix" perspective there may be some sort of decent point there. But we haven't spent for a quick fix. We have spent for the long haul. PATIENCE.

Its a sly way of saying KK hasnt got a clue and fits perfectly with the view that Carroll is a waste of money.
To be even questioning whether we will come 4th at this point of the season is ridiculous. Lets see where we are at christmas before we start the negative moaning

by **ethanr** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:42 am

Thommo's perm wrote:
The Good Yank wrote:All this talk that "we spent poorly" needs to be put in some perspective. From a "quick fix" perspective there may be some sort of decent point there. But we haven't spent for a quick fix. We have spent for the long haul. PATIENCE.

Its a sly way of saying KK hasnt got a clue and fits perfectly with the view that Carroll is a waste of money.
To be even questioning whether we will come 4th at this point of the season is ridiculous. Lets see where we are at christmas before we start the negative moaning

I still have faith in Adam and Carroll. I'm not going to sit here and say they're playing really well when they don't (tho they have both had a good game this season). I do believe they will fit into our squad more tho. I'm really hopeful now that Carroll has scored... Confidence really is huge. Torres has had the same problem and, as much as I hate to admit it, he has been playing much better as of late. I think Carroll just needs that confidence to get on track. Adam has been trying to do too much and that is costly at times. However there are actually a lot of people who think Adam's done really well. He's gotten 3 assists and a goal so far this season as far as I'm aware, and some are really happy with him. I'm one that really backed him from the start, but I'm willing to admit he's been very inconsistent and way too wasteful at times.

Hendo is for the future. He hasn't been very good, but I'm not going to judge him too much yet because he really is one for the future. I think Downing has done really well, and Enrique has been fantastic.

I think we've done well with our transfers. I'm not worried about it at all. I think manure are playing really well and that Young was a really good transfer for them, but I still don't think Phil Jones and De Gea are 100% worth it. For one De Gea has had more shots against him then any keeper in the league, so that obviously shows Jones isn't holding up his part of the defense. That makes De Gea look good, but he's made his fair share of mistakes. No doubt he's a really decent keeper, but they definitely have a worse keeper then last year. They are just playing really well right now.

by **Kenny Kan** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:12 am

However there are actually a lot of people who think Adam's done really well.

Let me guess, you've been reading RAWK. :laugh:

by **aCe'** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:20 am

The Good Yank wrote:All this talk that "we spent poorly" needs to be put in some perspective. From a "quick fix" perspective there may be some sort of decent point there. But we haven't spent for a quick fix. We have spent for the long haul. PATIENCE.

This whole notion of us \spending for the future\ has been thrown around quite a bit since we went out and bought all the new players and I dont quite get it. For me, when an owner gives the manager 100+ mill to spend in new players hes not doing that to build for the future or boost the academy. Its quite simple, you either buy players who are ready now or you dont. Some of the bigger clubs who have strong and established starting 11 (ManUtd, Chelsea and ManCity) can afford to spend 10+million on kids who sit on the bench and come on every now and then in hope of them becoming top players one day but besides that all the players they bring in are expected to be good enough to start and impress week in week out.

As things stood before the summer (and even before January to be honest), our starting 11 wasnt good enough to comprehensively achieve that 4th spot consistently. Our best player (Gerrard) is nearing the end of his career and if we dont start getting closer to our competition starting this season ( to enable to bring in more money through CL and better players) then the gap will only grow bigger.

Regardless, if some of the players are brought for the long term as you suggest, then Kenny should have no problems benching them if they are not performing at a high level today. The whole sticking by players in the starting 11 until they eventually improve despite the results thing is nonsense imo but it seems to be the way we're going about things.

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