Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:18 pm

The views on Carrol are far too polarised, IMO he is and never will be worth £35m, we all know that we overpaid and would have got him for a lot less in the Summer, c'mon nobody at our level was even in for him. This would have been a lot better for Andy as well as the Club, as the price does matter, for example we could have bought another top player with the 'spare change' (striker), and he must also be feeling the pressure of being the most expensive English player. Chants from the opposition have already started in terms of him being a waste of money, and sooner or later Kenny will be feeling the pressure to play him, regardless of whether its right or not, oh the fee matters, in many ways.

As a player he is never as bad as some are describing on here, nor does he have masses of potential, I can't see Andy scoring many more than 15 league goals a season consistently, but he may just be able to set up a few and form an attack that wins us things. The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

In hindsight it was a stupid decision to buy him when we did, knowing full well he would be out for about 6 weeks, and with us out of everything, but that said we need to support him, and wait for him to show us his level, because after everything I consider he is lacking he is still playing below the best he showed for Newcastle.

by **Reg** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:46 pm

tubby wrote:There was plenty of potential in him when he was top scorer before his injury last season.

Quite right Tubby. Seems posters are deathly bored and cant be @rsed going out for a walk.

by **tubby** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:02 pm

redtrader74 wrote:The views on Carrol are far too polarised, IMO he is and never will be worth £35m, we all know that we overpaid and would have got him for a lot less in the Summer, c'mon nobody at our level was even in for him. This would have been a lot better for Andy as well as the Club, as the price does matter, for example we could have bought another top player with the 'spare change' (striker), and he must also be feeling the pressure of being the most expensive English player. Chants from the opposition have already started in terms of him being a waste of money, and sooner or later Kenny will be feeling the pressure to play him, regardless of whether its right or not, oh the fee matters, in many ways.

As a player he is never as bad as some are describing on here, nor does he have masses of potential, I can't see Andy scoring many more than 15 league goals a season consistently, but he may just be able to set up a few and form an attack that wins us things. The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

In hindsight it was a stupid decision to buy him when we did, knowing full well he would be out for about 6 weeks, and with us out of everything, but that said we need to support him, and wait for him to show us his level, because after everything I consider he is lacking he is still playing below the best he showed for Newcastle.

How many times must it be stated, Carroll's fee was inflated as much as it was due to how much we sold Torres for. Had we sold Torres for 25mil we probably would have ended up paying around that for Carroll.

Ultimately we got rid of Torres and Babel and got in Carroll and Suarez. Given how Torres was performing at the time and how he is performing do you really think it was bad business?

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 pm

tubby wrote:How many times must it be stated, Carroll's fee was inflated as much as it was due to how much we sold Torres for. Had we sold Torres for 25mil we probably would have ended up paying around that for Carroll.

Don't understand why this concept seems so difficult to grasp.

by **redtrader74** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:15 am

tubby wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:The views on Carrol are far too polarised, IMO he is and never will be worth £35m, we all know that we overpaid and would have got him for a lot less in the Summer, c'mon nobody at our level was even in for him. This would have been a lot better for Andy as well as the Club, as the price does matter, for example we could have bought another top player with the 'spare change' (striker), and he must also be feeling the pressure of being the most expensive English player. Chants from the opposition have already started in terms of him being a waste of money, and sooner or later Kenny will be feeling the pressure to play him, regardless of whether its right or not, oh the fee matters, in many ways.

As a player he is never as bad as some are describing on here, nor does he have masses of potential, I can't see Andy scoring many more than 15 league goals a season consistently, but he may just be able to set up a few and form an attack that wins us things. The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

In hindsight it was a stupid decision to buy him when we did, knowing full well he would be out for about 6 weeks, and with us out of everything, but that said we need to support him, and wait for him to show us his level, because after everything I consider he is lacking he is still playing below the best he showed for Newcastle.

How many times must it be stated, Carroll's fee was inflated as much as it was due to how much we sold Torres for. Had we sold Torres for 25mil we probably would have ended up paying around that for Carroll.

Ultimately we got rid of Torres and Babel and got in Carroll and Suarez. Given how Torres was performing at the time and how he is performing do you really think it was bad business?

You can state the economic (stupid) reasons behind Carrolls transfer fee, I KNOW ALL ABOUT IT. Mate you should read my post a little more carefully, I am pointing out that the fee will cause problems, that it was not necessary to get him IN JANUARY and that it was, and always will be, too much, regardless of where the money came from. Just because we ripped off Chelsea it does not mean we should allow the same to happen to us.

Btw the Suarez deal was already well underway before Torres was sold, buying Carroll was a knee jerk response to Torres going. I know in this brave new era we aren't allowed to criticise NESV or Kenny, but given the opportunity I'm pretty confident they would have not bothered buying him until the Summer.

Ps, I'm not saying he is sh!t

by **Kenny Kan** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:23 am

redtrader74 wrote:The views on Carrol are far too polarised, IMO he is and never will be worth £35m, we all know that we overpaid and would have got him for a lot less in the Summer, c'mon nobody at our level was even in for him. This would have been a lot better for Andy as well as the Club, as the price does matter, for example we could have bought another top player with the 'spare change' (striker), and he must also be feeling the pressure of being the most expensive English player. Chants from the opposition have already started in terms of him being a waste of money, and sooner or later Kenny will be feeling the pressure to play him, regardless of whether its right or not, oh the fee matters, in many ways.

As a player he is never as bad as some are describing on here, nor does he have masses of potential, I can't see Andy scoring many more than 15 league goals a season consistently, but he may just be able to set up a few and form an attack that wins us things. The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

In hindsight it was a stupid decision to buy him when we did, knowing full well he would be out for about 6 weeks, and with us out of everything, but that said we need to support him, and wait for him to show us his level, because after everything I consider he is lacking he is still playing below the best he showed for Newcastle.

I understand what you are saying Red, sensible post.

by **alwayslfc** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:46 am

redtrader74 wrote:The views on Carrol are far too polarised, IMO he is and never will be worth £35m, we all know that we overpaid and would have got him for a lot less in the Summer, c'mon nobody at our level was even in for him. This would have been a lot better for Andy as well as the Club, as the price does matter, for example we could have bought another top player with the 'spare change' (striker), and he must also be feeling the pressure of being the most expensive English player. Chants from the opposition have already started in terms of him being a waste of money, and sooner or later Kenny will be feeling the pressure to play him, regardless of whether its right or not, oh the fee matters, in many ways.

As a player he is never as bad as some are describing on here, nor does he have masses of potential, I can't see Andy scoring many more than 15 league goals a season consistently, but he may just be able to set up a few and form an attack that wins us things. The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

In hindsight it was a stupid decision to buy him when we did, knowing full well he would be out for about 6 weeks, and with us out of everything, but that said we need to support him, and wait for him to show us his level, because after everything I consider he is lacking he is still playing below the best he showed for Newcastle.

[quote]

I agree with you, I have to say I've been a bit harsh on the lad but your post has been very fair on Carroll. It was not Carroll's fault that he cost so much, Newcastle knowing the Jan transfer window was closing and Liverpool were desperate, deliberately jacked up to 35 million and Liverpool were stupid and desperate enough to bite the bait. Carroll admitted that he didn't want to leave his beloved hometown club but it was them who wanted to sell him because they wanted the money despite what Newcastle said to the contrary. So I'd say the blunder or should I say the blame should be on Liverpool.

But I still maintain the fact that a 35 million striker should be someone who is at the standard of Rooney, David Villa, Torres (at his prime) and sad to say Carroll, to me will not be up to that mark and if Liverpool are going to focus their play and goals on him alone that could prove to be a disaster.

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:01 am

I wish Carroll would just bleedin' concentrate on what he's supposed to be doing on the pitch, not chasing anything in a skirt off the pitch. And don't give me any excuses about him being a "young man" or any of that rubbish. You're a big boy now Andy - grow up, get your sh!t together and act like an adult.

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:11 am

We are obsessed with price and cost as a society.
How much was it? Could you have got it cheaper? Were you ripped off?
I dont know about you but I am ripped off most, if not every day in one way or another. The cost of gas, lecky, water, petrol, food in supermarkets, food in restaurants, beer, clothes. My car is too much, my mortgage is too much, the price of going to see a play or a film, tickets for the match is too much. Going on holiday or staying home. Everything costs too much!
The question is, is it worth it? Are any of the things Ive mentioned actually worth it. Can you honestly say that everything you pay for is worth it? Id guess no.
My point is we should stop being obsessed with how much he cost. If he scores a few and makes a few and we win something or qualify for the CL then he will have been worth it to me. If we dont, then maybe we can say that he was a waste of money who cost too much. Im not really ar'sed. We can afford it so why worry? Players have been overpriced before and we have had some absolute bargains through the years. C'est la vie.
What concerns me is that we are playing into the hands of bitters and manks and any other team who will surely shout "what a waste of money"
Isnt that the real reason people are worried?

by **Octsky** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:53 pm

i think Carroll is the only reason why we, as LFC fans, couldnt laugh harder
at judas demise at chelskit.

coz we are in the same situation, only 15m difference.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:01 pm

Octsky wrote:i think Carroll is the only reason why we, as LFC fans, couldnt laugh harder
at judas demise at chelskit.

coz we are in the same situation, only 15m difference.

Carroll

14 apps 3 goals

Torres

22 apps 1 goal

Clearly not the same.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:33 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Octsky wrote:i think Carroll is the only reason why we, as LFC fans, couldnt laugh harder
at judas demise at chelskit.

coz we are in the same situation, only 15m difference.

Carroll

14 apps 3 goals

Torres

22 apps 1 goal

Clearly not the same.

lol - Love it

by **Octsky** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:34 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Octsky wrote:i think Carroll is the only reason why we, as LFC fans, couldnt laugh harder
at judas demise at chelskit.

coz we are in the same situation, only 15m difference.

Carroll

14 apps 3 goals

Torres

22 apps 1 goal

Clearly not the same.

Sergio Aguero

4 apps 6 goals

clearly we hv nothing to laugh about.

i am curious did Kenny really want to sign Carroll ?

if we look back to history, he formed the most prolific partnership in our history with Ian Rush (legend), neither are good in the air, but both deathly in the box.

as player /manager, he signed John Aldridge and Peter Beardsley. i had never seen them played live but i dont think they were the classic big no.9 type of forwards.

then at Blackburn title winning season, he sign Sutton and Shearer. i dont think Sutton was particularly good in either but Shearer, who was good in the air but was known primarily for his finishing in the box.

modern football has move on from the big target forwards. when was the last time Barca played with a target man? Kluivert (if u can categories him as a target man ) ? a decade ago ?

Gooners ? i dont think in recent memory has they ever played with a target man under AW.

Real madrid last played with Van neitoroy as a target man maybe 5-6 yrs ago.

Mancs last played with Berva as a target man, but now he couldnt even make the bench.

Chelskit still plays with Drogba to a good effect, AC still plays Ibra. but is Carroll as good as both of them ? i dont think so.

by **stmichael** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:37 pm

redtrader74 wrote:The best strikers in the modern game have quick feet, sharp movement and great touch, he has none of these qualities at the level needed.

Like Drogba you mean?

by **alwayslfc** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:We are obsessed with price and cost as a society.
How much was it? Could you have got it cheaper? Were you ripped off?
I dont know about you but I am ripped off most, if not every day in one way or another. The cost of gas, lecky, water, petrol, food in supermarkets, food in restaurants, beer, clothes. My car is too much, my mortgage is too much, the price of going to see a play or a film, tickets for the match is too much. Going on holiday or staying home. Everything costs too much!
The question is, is it worth it? Are any of the things Ive mentioned actually worth it. Can you honestly say that everything you pay for is worth it? Id guess no.
My point is we should stop being obsessed with how much he cost. If he scores a few and makes a few and we win something or qualify for the CL then he will have been worth it to me. If we dont, then maybe we can say that he was a waste of money who cost too much. Im not really ar'sed. We can afford it so why worry? Players have been overpriced before and we have had some absolute bargains through the years. C'est la vie.
What concerns me is that we are playing into the hands of bitters and manks and any other team who will surely shout "what a waste of money"
Isnt that the real reason people are worried?

[quote]

Agree with you on this. But I have to say that Liverpool did make a big blunder in signing him in January. If they really wanted him, they could have waited until the summer. Why? He was out of action for 8 weeks when we signed him in Jan. When he first played in March, he lacked match fitness or partially injured and out most of the remaining games. Wouldn't it have made more financial sense if Liverpool signed him in the summer?

I suppose DC and KK are humans after all and do make mistakes and that was an expensive mistake they made. I now feel there's no need crying over spilled milk and hope he will come out good and if not, we'll ask Chelsea whether they will want him for 70 million but after discount 50 million.

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