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by **Kenny Kan** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:12 pm

it's laziness on the other players part that they see him as an out ball all the time and constantly knock it long

I will counter this by saying that Carroll's lack of movement/intelligence/mobility or whatever it is that makes him rather static contributes to the long ball game rather than the weak argument of "laziness". Yesterday's performance showed that if you have the movement and endeavor upfront, as opposed to the endeavor and movement of a light house, team-mates have substantial options to play, move and pass the ball into. Carroll doesn't help himself, he stands static up front with his back to goal like a towering beacon subconsciously encouraging his team mates to KNOCK IT LONG TO ME. If he moved his @rse around more, he would discourage his team mates from thinking he is just a 'prime static target'.

by **Bad Bob** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:53 pm

Greavesie wrote:Winning comes first, regardless of the price of the perssonell

That's the bottom line. Yesterday we played the kind of football we've all been dreaming about for years and got an easy result in the end because of it. Our goal has to be to bottle that magic and bring it to every match. If that means the big lad rides pine, so be it. He can be a very useful impact sub or Plan B but, at the moment, we've got a Plan A that probably doesn't work as well with his style.

(As for the tedious "but he cost 35 million pounds" argument: 1) the owners don't seemed to be too fussed with his transfer fee so we shouldn't be either and 2) Chelsea actually stumped up the money....let them worry about it. The only way it becomes a key issue is if Carroll gets it in his head that his transfer fee means he should be starting every match and has a bit of a pout...but I'll trust Kenny to man manage that situation effectively.)

by **redtrader74** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:36 pm

£35m is still a shed load of money, regardless of where it came from, by this logic of Chelsea having 'paid' for him, it seems that everyone agrees he is well overpriced, which of course he is. It actually does matter to me the amount we paid, in retrospect we should have waited until the end of the season to buy him. We do not have a limitless budget and I think he could have been bought for a lot less this summer, and had some spare cash to get in another player; or even chosen a different striker, I can't think of another club of any note that was in for him?

I don't think we should play him based on the fee, but it will add pressure to the argument that he should, and also makes the club and Kenny look foolish if he does not play, like it or not headlines in the press
about a 35m flop will be printed if he spends much time benched.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:37 pm

After seeing yesterday's performance by dirk and Suarez against Bolton, and how it contributed to the performance of the whole team, I would be very very reluctant to play Carroll...

by **tubby** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:38 pm

Think we need to get Carroll and Suarez playing together more often. The sooner they gel as a gel the more we will benefit as a team.

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:18 pm

I dont think we can play them both in the side together until our midfield situation is sorted.. With the players in the side today, our style of play when they are both picked is a little rusty and lacking in fluidity. While it hasnt cost us that much yet in terms of results, I think it will sooner rather than later. We need to be able to go to some of the stronger sides and dominate them in terms of possession to both ensure we score and win, and also ensure they dont get much of the ball and subsequently threaten our goal and score against us...

With a 5 man midfield, our chances of keeping possession and a clean sheet away are better. We'd also have Carroll as the impact sub to change the game around or exploit opposition weaknesses when needed.

That said, I see the logic in having Carroll as a started as many suggest. The guy obviously has talent and if played right could provide the goals in a consistent basis. For me, we'll need a midfield 4 of

Gerrard Meireles Lucas Downing

to be able to play both Suarez and Carroll upfront. Essentialy that midfield 4 would be able to offer the supply from wider positions (granted Downing stays wide rather than cut inside at every chance) while having the technical prowess to control the tempo of the game and build up play with plenty of options.. It all comes down to the midfielders because imo if we leave it down to Carroll pairing up with Suarez upfront to create our chances, they'll always struggle to get on the same wavelength given their drastically different styles of play and abilities.

by **RedAnt** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:33 pm

Kuyt of course is a victim of his own qualities, much like Stevie G has been. His willingness to give, give, give some more for the team has seen him pushed out onto the right wing a lot where he's not all that productive, certainly not in the winger sense anyway. He's not a great crosser, not a great dribbler, and has no pace. Up front he's a fine player. But as someone said earlier in this thread..Kuyts main asset other than his engine is his intelligence. Often I watch him rather than the ball. I used to play a lot of football and I find him quite fascinating to watch for his movment and quickness of thought.But alas! Even Kuyt can't last forever. He's what...32 now? We're going to see an alarming dip in his "engine" over the next two or three seasons. WE need to start looking to the future....and let's face it, who should be learning from him? Andy Carroll.

Carroll too is a victim of his own qualities. When the balls coming through the middle of the park, which would he prefer? Long ball up to his head, or a pass into his feet? Much like Crouchy, I believe he'd prefer it to his feet. Is he mobile enough to deal with it there? Probably not, but I believe he'd hold it up far better, able to use that huge frame with his back to goal whilst others can get around him. Currently we seem to launch it to his head and expect him to bring it down on his chest and hold it time and time again. There never seems to be anyone close to him which baffles me really. Without people close to him, even a big strong lad like Andy can't hold it for long. He has defenders close and they close him down fast. Big Andy is, magic he is not. Even the best target man won't manage to hold such a ball up more than 5 in 10 times. AS for wing play, sure, whip it into his head. In the Bolton match he was certainly off the pace. Shoulda definately got on the end of Downings cross.

The 4-3-3 idea is tempting. I'd not try it in a leage match, but it'd be interesting in a league cup match perhaps, playng a narrower game. With Gerrard and Adam playing passes up to those three, varied passes, feet, head and behind the defence...i'm pretty sure we'd see goals galore.

by **metalhead** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:17 am

I still think if we play Carroll with creative players around him he will shine, get him the service he needs. Its a similar situation with Dzeko when he has Silva, Nasri, Yaya Toure and Augero playing with him in the side, players with flair, creativity and great technical ability that would pass the ball around and create opportunities for Dzeko, who is a more traditional out and out striker who is strong in the air, holds the ball and can finish.

As for now I guess the King will play the best team and the one that works. It will be interesting how things will go when Gerrard gets back into the side

by **The Good Yank** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:29 am

redtrader74 wrote:but it will add pressure to the argument that he should, and also makes the club and Kenny look foolish if he does not play, like it or not headlines in the press
about a 35m flop will be printed if he spends much time benched.

Pressure from where? And to the rest of that, So Facking What.

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