The striker conundrum - What's the way forward?

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Postby maguskwt » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:12 am

Ok... at the moment, it can be said that we have 3 first team strikers: Suarez, Andy Carroll and good ol Kuyt.

Suarez to me, there is no debate. He has to start. Not only is he skillful, fast, has vision... his workrate can match Kuyt's who is known as probably the hardest worker in the squad. Suarez' only weaknesses so far I've observed, is that he like to go down abit too easily. Even though the 2 fouls agains him in box against Bolton were both stonewall penalties, perhaps the way he went down may have prompted the ref to not give them. Well, we can't also discount the fact that the ref was as incompitent as they come. Another weakness of Suarez is maybe he is a bit too elaborate in front of goal... he needs to have a more no-nonsense lethal finish like his predecessors Owen and Judas. Aside from that he is to me a complete footballer and as complete a striker as they come.

So now the conundrum is who should partner him? In one corner is the current 'golden boy' of Britain, at 6'3" he is a marvelous physical specimen, young, strong as an ox, good in the air, possesses a lethal left foot, and is an heir apparent to the previous 'golden boy' of Britain, Mr Alan Shearer. At 35 million pounds he is also the most expensive British player ever: Andy Carroll. In the other corner is our aging dutch farmboy Dirk Kuyt. He is neither tall (though he's not short) nor the strongest. But he is also another marvelous physical specimen, who has a battery that never runs out. His energy level, stamina and workrate is second to none. And even though he's not a prolific goalscorer, he is known to pop in goal some pretty important goals. And despite his reletive lack of silky skills, Kuyt is a very intelligent football player.

After 3 league games and whatever other games you watch, which is the main striking partnership moving forward? Discuss...
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Postby peterc1992 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:54 am

Away from home,

downing caroll suarez

at home

downing Kuyt suarez



Im not sure what the King has in store but the long ball is more of an option away from home when we have less possesion.While at home we will have more of the ball therefore we will need more movement and dont need to punt as much as some players would when carrol is on the pitch..



Love caroll though,time will tell how we use him.
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Postby Greavesie » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:43 am

Seems Carroll won't be able to get a look in as long as we play the ball on the ground and look to play a quick pass and move game. I agree with what's said above, Carroll may be more suited to away games when we have less of the ball, his battering ram approach also causes a few problems for defenders.

I'm sure he'll come good as will the rest of the signings, the dilemma here though is how to get the best out of him, once we figure that out I'm sure he'll be fine

Still, got more league goals for us than Torres for Chelsea, bargain :D
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Postby RedSi35 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:00 am

Kuyt and suarez play so well together in those front two positions its hard not to pick them.

Carroll will have his uses in certain games. But 35 million is a lot to pay for someone who wont play every game.

Have total faith in Kenny though to find the best team for each game.
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Postby Greavesie » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:15 am

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Postby ethanr » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:06 am

It's interesting.  Away games we play Carroll when we have a bit less possession, but that also means the ball will be in the back a lot more where Carra, Skrtel and sometimes Agger are very guilty of the long ball to Carroll we all hate to see.  Not many people give that long ball to Carroll, it's the same people over and over again (Mainly Carra tbh).  Sometimes Adam seems guilty of it as well, but I think Adam is trying to give Carroll similar passes he gives Suarez, without realizing so much that Suarez will run on to them and create something while Carroll will hold it up and often be stuck with only one option.

I'm starting to worry Carroll will never fit in.  He's a good player and can be a huge asset, but when he's not in we play so much better.  To be honest I don't think it's his fault.  I think there's a lot of pressure on him because he's having some trouble scoring, and our team tend to give him a bunch of passes he really has to work at to do something productive with (bar Downing and Enrique).

Our team do need to adjust to fit him in, but not how they have.  They need to play him as another striker.  The need to play him like he can do something other than win the ball in the air (because he can).  We aren't even using him often when he is most dangerous-on set pieces.  How often do you see a corner or free kick give Carroll a good chance? Almost never.  We need clubs to be scared sh!tless about him being in the box, because then he becomes a huge distraction.  Especially when we have Agger in there who's really good in the air, and supposedly this Coates guy who is fantastic in the air.

I really believe our team would be most productive with Suarez and Carroll playing together, but people need to learn how to incorporate him without completely screwing him.

Let's not forget he's been extremely hard done as well... First game of the season, he clearly had a perfectly clean goal against Sunderland.  Against Arsenal he set up Downing really well too, and Downing scored the volley that didn't count because of a garbage call against him once again.  For some reason refs think he just fouls people, when he's the one getting fouled 9 times out of 10.
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Postby Raoul » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:49 am

I don't think we have a conundrum, I think we have depth and options. And not only is Kuyt a striker, he is also an option on the right. I think we'll see all three of them get plenty of games - obviously as long as he is fit Suarez will be in, but I suspect that because Kuyt can play in the middle AND down the flanks that he may get more game time than Carroll. I don't actually think we'll see a settled and different home and away formation, I think we'll see Kenny taking a look at the fitness and form of the squad and the opposition and picking teams based on that more than if we are away or home.
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Postby Raoul » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:53 am

And I think we need to give Carroll a bit more time - it looks like he doesn't fit into the fluid pass and move style we've been playing without him, it looks more static and long ball when he is on, but that is a coaching issue - his height and ability in the air means the long ball should always be an option when he is on, but I see no reason why he can't be as mobile as the rest of them - in fact, in his short time against Bolton I thought his movement was better than the week before. The young man'll come right.
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Postby RedSi35 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:29 am

Henderson and downing can both deliver a quality ball, we saw that quite a few times yesterday. But with those 2 we also saw that they were very comfortable with their Short passing and have excellent movement.

Carroll has power in abundance thats for sure, a little work on his first touch and movement and the lad will be fine
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Postby maguskwt » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:00 am

His weakest point is anticipation, while without the ball he is often caught ball watching and only react when it's too late... Downing's very good cross near the end of the match where the ball flew in front of the goal escaping their keeper should have been anticipated by Carroll instead he was very static...
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:23 am

feck all this "home & away" bollox, Kuyt and Suarez up top until Carroll can prove otherwise.

Those two have earned the 'right' to pair up together.

The other positive to this, is that we also play proper football with these two tenacious bu.ggers upfront.
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Postby redtrader74 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:13 pm

Kuyts puts in a lot more effort, but then maybe it takes away a little sharpness in front of goal, I love the effort, but what's the point in closing down a defender into the corner if the pass back to the keeper has not been? I think he should pick and choose when he closes down or at least ensure a team mate is stopping the option. Carroll is not as good on the ball, but has a far better shot. Neither have particularly good vision, but I am a firm believer in defending from the front, as it allows the team to play more expansively and keeps us on the front foot, and therefore it still has to be kuyt and Suarez, for now.

Thing is if suarez is injured then can we afford to play kuyt and Carroll as a two up front? I think not, and then it would probably have to be Carroll as lone striker and five midfielders.
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Postby stmichael » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:15 pm

it's interesting this. i was talking to my mate about this entire issue yesterday at the match. ideally i'd play all three of the aforementioned in a 4-3-3 (kuyt plays on the right of a three for holland and suarez on left of a three for uruguay). whatever anybody says, kuyt is best deployed as a striker. he never will be a wide player in a 4-4-2. last season him and suarez formed a great partnership upfront together.

carroll is an excellent option to have though. i don't subscribe this theory that he can't play with the ball at his feet. it's laziness on the other players part that they see him as an out ball all the time and constantly knock it long. at the moment he's still finding his feet but i still maintain that he'll come good. people need to forget the price tag and using it as something to knock him with.
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Postby redtrader74 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:21 pm

stmichael wrote:carroll is an excellent option to have though. i don't subscribe this theory that he can't play with the ball at his feet. it's laziness on the other players part that they see him as an out ball all the time and constantly knock it long.

Very true, It still surprises me that people can play football day in day out, professionally, be trained by top level coaches and yet as soon as a striker with a modicum of strength or height plays; out come the long balls. Dumbasses
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Postby killerp » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Kenny Kan wrote:feck all this "home & away" bollox, Kuyt and Suarez up top until Carroll can prove otherwise.

Yep spot on

I really love the passing game we displayed against Bolton, fast attacking football with unpredictable interchanging don't stop! Andy is backup if that system fails against tougher opposition to try a more direct approach.
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