Liverpool FC Forum

by **Penguins** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:06 pm

aCe' wrote:
metalhead wrote:
eds wrote:Signings we have made aren't good enough. Simple as.

The gap between us and the top 4 will only become bigger and bigger if Arsenal sign Mata.

Expect another season of mediocrity, unless we bring in quality and as I have said in posts BRING IT IN NOW not next year or 5 seasons from now.

No, if Arsenal sign Mata to replace Fabregas then it means they didn't improve.

Mata and Gervinho for Fabregas is a big improvement in my opinion...

No to mention the Arsenal team finished 10 pts ahead in the league and got alot further than us in every competition.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:09 pm

Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is. :no

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:12 pm

aCe' wrote:
mart wrote:
aCe' wrote:Given the players we had/have and the money spent in the last 6 or so months, a top4 spot should be a minimum requirement I would imagine...
HOWEVER, our transfers (Suarez aside) have been largely disappointing imo. We have failed to sign players for positions we really need to improve on (CB, LB, backup FW & DM), and we have massively overspent on players who (at least on paper) dont add that much to our starting 11 (Henderson, Adam, Carroll and even Downing)..
As far as i can tell, we still lack creativity and flair despite signing 3 attacking midfielders .. we are no better defensively than we were last season... Upfront we still rely on Ngog as cover and that is simply not good enough at the highest level...

I think our transfers overall will go a long way in determining where we end up in the league, and that in all honestly doesnt leave me too optimistic about our chances of getting a top4 spot...

Expectation: 6th

I agree with most of what you say but I still think we will be among the teams fighting for the fourth spot if Suarez stays fit. We desperately need to buy some quality defenders. If we have to sell before we buy now we made a huge mistake in the transfer market. We should have made defenders a priority.

It seems all the pressure of replacing Gerrard-Torres is being put on Suarez now... It's kind of funny because the way I see it, the management didnt even try to bring in players who would complement Suarez's style of play. If anything, with players like Downing, Adam, Kuyt, Gerrard, and Carroll in the side we'll most probably have to move Suarez from his CF position to a wide position or a second striker role... Other options would either include benching Gerrard /Adam & Henderson / Carroll...etc

It seems we're moving towards a more direct style of play with long balls and crosses aimed towards Carroll rather than short passes and through balls played for/through Suarez...

I guess we'll wait and see if it works or not, but I'd be very surprised if we play both Carroll and Suarez in the starting lineup week in week out..

According to Opta stats, as many as 42% of all the Premier League goals last season originated from a dead ball.

Goals from a dead ball scenario invariably require an aerial presence, hence Carroll.

If anything the addition of Carroll will create more for Suarez. I fully expect Carroll to register as many (or close to) assists as goals this season.

Most supporters were disappointed when Crouch left as he not only scored but also created goals. Not to mention the ability to have an out ball under pressure (I understand this must be controlled, to be fair Carragher is the guilty party here) but also the ability to break down a defence when the opposition is intent on defending inside their own box for the entirety of the game.

by **Penguins** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:24 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is.

I have patience and I can live with us finishing 5th, 6th or what it will be. But many supporters have illusions of grandeur and think getting back into the top 4 is bare minimum for a club that has been through hell these past couple of years.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:28 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is.

I know! One or two posters lately have posted some shocking things on this forum and its pathetic.

Judging new signings before they've even played a competitive game is just daft. But talking about who the next manager might be just makes me blood boil.

by **alxy** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:56 pm

metalhead wrote:
alxy wrote:One thing also: if Downing was signed to give us width, then why did he keep coming inside last night? All the hype about his crosses being ideal fodder for Caroll... last night I don't think Caroll got one decent attempt at goal from any of Downing's crosses

Carroll did score a goal yesterday from a Downing cross

whoops...forgot that one

Still, hope Downing does what we expect him to do as bread and butter stuff, which is go down the line, take on fullbacks and get more decent crosses in...

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:50 pm

If we dont win the first 10 games I think we should get rid of KK and bring back Woy

by **kazza** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:28 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is.

I am not one to attack the team but the amount of goals we are letting in is alarming, whether pre-season or not. We will have issues defensively this season unless we radically improve and we have only one match left so not much time.

My fear is we will be like the Newcastle of old and be very entertaining to watch (winning or losing most matches 4-3). Champions are always built around a very solid defence, and I am not sure we have that. I am excited about this season but worried about losing too much ground while we "gel". We need to spend big on a couple of very good defenders! If we only let in ten goals all season I bet we would win the prem, in contrast if we scored 100 goals we may not.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:12 pm

kazza wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is.

I am not one to attack the team but the amount of goals we are letting in is alarming, whether pre-season or not. We will have issues defensively this season unless we radically improve and we have only one match left so not much time.

My fear is we will be like the Newcastle of old and be very entertaining to watch (winning or losing most matches 4-3). Champions are always built around a very solid defence, and I am not sure we have that. I am excited about this season but worried about losing too much ground while we "gel". We need to spend big on a couple of very good defenders! If we only let in ten goals all season I bet we would win the prem, in contrast if we scored 100 goals we may not.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that everything's perfect. Indeed, the defense is a big question mark at the moment. I still think we'll see some defensive signings before the window closes, though.* But, to be fair, expressing concerns about a leaky defense is one thing. It's quite another to decide that all the new signings are absolutely not good enough based on a few preseason friendlies (Eds) or that we'll struggle to avoid relegation and Kenny'll be gone by Christmas (alwayslfc). Knee jerk stuff, that.

*I think everyone can see that we need to make some defensive signings but I don't think it necessarily follows that Kenny's got his priorities wrong by signing the midfielders up first. We have no real idea what's happening behind closed doors and it simply may not have been possible to do reasonable deals for defenders before now. I'll reserve judgment on our transfers until after the window closes.

by **Joeblackisachimp** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:33 pm

Fourth Place is minimum requirement.

havent signed any top drawer players. Downing, Carroll, Adam, and Henderson, all unproven at "Top 4" Level, and a "gamble" IMO They may play like a fish out of water! and disapear ,so to speak.

Utd Always consistent. 1/2nd place
Chelsea There or thereabouts. 1/2/3rd.
City Top 4
Arsenal 4th or 5th.
Spurs - there squad is as good as ours. (modric, Van der vaart, defoe, crouch, lennon,) will be 4/5th challenging.)

I don't think (with the signings we have) that we have enough quality to be consistent to stay at the top.

It was proved under Rafa Benitez that you cannot win the league on the cheap, with just clever tactics etc. his only Big name signing was Torres.

I just hope kenny knows what he's doing, and I will only judge what I see.

first 10 games will tell us a lot, esp without Stevie G. if dont win at least 6, forget the title.
:cool:

by **eds** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:35 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
kazza wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:Is it too much to ask for some to have a little patience? Patience with the new lads as they bed in. Patience with the team as it works to get fit and to gel. Patience with the manager as he assesses the squad. Patience with the transfer policy as the window isn't even closed yet. The rush to judgment every summer simply baffles me. A few indifferent preseason results and suddenly the signings are rubbish, the manager's got his priorities wrong and the squad's not good enough to get into the top half of the table. It's cringeworthy stuff to read from supposed supporters, it really is.

I am not one to attack the team but the amount of goals we are letting in is alarming, whether pre-season or not. We will have issues defensively this season unless we radically improve and we have only one match left so not much time.

My fear is we will be like the Newcastle of old and be very entertaining to watch (winning or losing most matches 4-3). Champions are always built around a very solid defence, and I am not sure we have that. I am excited about this season but worried about losing too much ground while we "gel". We need to spend big on a couple of very good defenders! If we only let in ten goals all season I bet we would win the prem, in contrast if we scored 100 goals we may not.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that everything's perfect. Indeed, the defense is a big question mark at the moment. I still think we'll see some defensive signings before the window closes, though.* But, to be fair, expressing concerns about a leaky defense is one thing. It's quite another to decide that all the new signings are absolutely not good enough based on a few preseason friendlies (Eds) or that we'll struggle to avoid relegation and Kenny'll be gone by Christmas (alwayslfc). Knee jerk stuff, that.

*I think everyone can see that we need to make some defensive signings but I don't think it necessarily follows that Kenny's got his priorities wrong by signing the midfielders up first. We have no real idea what's happening behind closed doors and it simply may not have been possible to do reasonable deals for defenders before now. I'll reserve judgment on our transfers until after the window closes.

I haven't watched the friendliest, not do I really care about them. Why do you think I basing our new signings on friendliest I haven't seen??? I am just echoing what a few on hearing a saying, we haven't signed any players that will make the difference between where we finished last season and where we will finish this season. Downing won't, Adam won't and Henderson is too young to call on whether he can make a difference this season.

I am basing my opinions on the SQUADS of the top 4 sides. As has been mentioned time and time again WE need a quality CB, LB and ST not next year or 2015, NOW! I don't buy into this but there are players at the club on extraordinary wages, FFS they should have been out the door on May 31st!!! To pass the buck and say oh it was previous management's problems reeks of poor, poor ownership! You promised us you could compete with other clubs YANKS don't go back on your f**kin words with excuses and nonsense! Why did we spend 30 million on Adam and Henderson when they weren't essential then?

? So does that mean we have to sit and wait to be held ransom by these players until their contracts run out. F**k the f**k off and when you get there f**k off some more.

by **The Good Yank** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:00 pm

eds wrote:I haven't watched the friendliest, not do I really care about them. Why do you think I basing our new signings on friendliest I haven't seen??? I am just echoing what a few on hearing a saying, we haven't signed any players that will make the difference between where we finished last season and where we will finish this season. Downing won't, Adam won't and Henderson is too young to call on whether he can make a difference this season.

I am basing my opinions on the SQUADS of the top 4 sides. As has been mentioned time and time again WE need a quality CB, LB and ST not next year or 2015, NOW! I don't buy into this but there are players at the club on extraordinary wages, FFS they should have been out the door on May 31st!!! To pass the buck and say oh it was previous management's problems reeks of poor, poor ownership! You promised us you could compete with other clubs YANKS don't go back on your f**kin words with excuses and nonsense! Why did we spend 30 million on Adam and Henderson when they weren't essential then? ? So does that mean we have to sit and wait to be held ransom by these players until their contracts run out. F**k the f**k off and when you get there f**k off some more.

So you are offering opinions when you haven't even seen them (Downing, Adam, Henderson) play for us yet? Why does that seem a bit odd?

Then your little tirade about the deadwood. How exactly were we supposed to ship out the dross on May 31st? THE CLUB signed them to longterm contracts. In what way does this "reek of poor,poor ownership"?

Take a fookin breath and try to use some perspective.

by **7_Kewell** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:18 am

The Good Yank wrote:
eds wrote:I haven't watched the friendliest, not do I really care about them. Why do you think I basing our new signings on friendliest I haven't seen??? I am just echoing what a few on hearing a saying, we haven't signed any players that will make the difference between where we finished last season and where we will finish this season. Downing won't, Adam won't and Henderson is too young to call on whether he can make a difference this season.

I am basing my opinions on the SQUADS of the top 4 sides. As has been mentioned time and time again WE need a quality CB, LB and ST not next year or 2015, NOW! I don't buy into this but there are players at the club on extraordinary wages, FFS they should have been out the door on May 31st!!! To pass the buck and say oh it was previous management's problems reeks of poor, poor ownership! You promised us you could compete with other clubs YANKS don't go back on your f**kin words with excuses and nonsense! Why did we spend 30 million on Adam and Henderson when they weren't essential then? ? So does that mean we have to sit and wait to be held ransom by these players until their contracts run out. F**k the f**k off and when you get there f**k off some more.

So you are offering opinions when you haven't even seen them (Downing, Adam, Henderson) play for us yet? Why does that seem a bit odd?

Then your little tirade about the deadwood. How exactly were we supposed to ship out the dross on May 31st? THE CLUB signed them to longterm contracts. In what way does this "reek of poor,poor ownership"?

Take a fookin breath and try to use some perspective.

simple, he's talking Sh!te

by **eds** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:35 am

The Good Yank wrote:
eds wrote:I haven't watched the friendliest, not do I really care about them. Why do you think I basing our new signings on friendliest I haven't seen??? I am just echoing what a few on hearing a saying, we haven't signed any players that will make the difference between where we finished last season and where we will finish this season. Downing won't, Adam won't and Henderson is too young to call on whether he can make a difference this season.

I am basing my opinions on the SQUADS of the top 4 sides. As has been mentioned time and time again WE need a quality CB, LB and ST not next year or 2015, NOW! I don't buy into this but there are players at the club on extraordinary wages, FFS they should have been out the door on May 31st!!! To pass the buck and say oh it was previous management's problems reeks of poor, poor ownership! You promised us you could compete with other clubs YANKS don't go back on your f**kin words with excuses and nonsense! Why did we spend 30 million on Adam and Henderson when they weren't essential then? ? So does that mean we have to sit and wait to be held ransom by these players until their contracts run out. F**k the f**k off and when you get there f**k off some more.

So you are offering opinions when you haven't even seen them (Downing, Adam, Henderson) play for us yet? Why does that seem a bit odd?

Then your little tirade about the deadwood. How exactly were we supposed to ship out the dross on May 31st? THE CLUB signed them to longterm contracts. In what way does this "reek of poor,poor ownership"?

Take a fookin breath and try to use some perspective.

Good to get some positive discussion going.

I have a fair idea how they have played at other clubs and what level of football they can bring to our club and from what it looks like they just aren't good enough. Just like Woy of the Wodgers wasn't good enough last season, I don't need to see them at Liverpool to have a fair idea of what they can bring. FFS we could have used that money we spent on Henderson and Adam to sign Aguero, I know I am speculating but we just HAVEN'T thought this out have we? What is our obsession with signing a first XI of central midfielders! WE DON'T NEED THEM!!!!

And still I digress from my main point, once again so you understand WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY..... just compare our squad and new signings with the top 4 clubs, just compare them. What's that?.......nothing......silence.....that's right the reality is without taking risks in the market, without spending money WHERE IT IS ACTUALLY NEEDED, we won't be competitive with the other top sides. Especially when we don't have european football to incentivise any new signings!

Kenny did a fantastic job last season, but I really think we actually overachieved with the dross we have, 3 new signings will not take us to the title as some lemmings are jumping up and down on this thread about! It will only sustain us at 5th or 6th if we are lucky.

I am not saying let's go out and spend hundreds of millions like Man Sh*ty but we need to be wise with what are doing, I just don't have any belief we are doing that at the moment. We need defensive cover (a CB and LB) and a quality (maybe experienced) 3rd striker. If the owner's dont have anymore money to spend, WHY HAVE THEY SPENT IT on the areas we don't need them to? It doesn't make any sense???

As for your points on deadwood sitting on high salaries, if I am a loyal supporter I would put myself in Henry's shoes. One of my main priorities would be to work out how to get rid of them. Do you honestly think that at any multinational giant corporation around the world shareholders would put up with their CEO coming out, shrugging his shoulders saying "nothing I can do" at an annual meeting when one of the key problems hampering the company's growth and development is raised? Do you? Why should we be any different?

And before I hear the same boring cliches of "calm down", "the season hasn't started yet", "let's be patient" try and retort what I have said. The only thing that will calm me down, have a coke and shut me the f**k up is if we start bringing in cover for the areas we most need it in and quality nor quantity like the past. I think a fair few supporters would agree with what I have just said.

by **eds** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:43 am

7_Kewell wrote:
The Good Yank wrote:
eds wrote:I haven't watched the friendliest, not do I really care about them. Why do you think I basing our new signings on friendliest I haven't seen??? I am just echoing what a few on hearing a saying, we haven't signed any players that will make the difference between where we finished last season and where we will finish this season. Downing won't, Adam won't and Henderson is too young to call on whether he can make a difference this season.

I am basing my opinions on the SQUADS of the top 4 sides. As has been mentioned time and time again WE need a quality CB, LB and ST not next year or 2015, NOW! I don't buy into this but there are players at the club on extraordinary wages, FFS they should have been out the door on May 31st!!! To pass the buck and say oh it was previous management's problems reeks of poor, poor ownership! You promised us you could compete with other clubs YANKS don't go back on your f**kin words with excuses and nonsense! Why did we spend 30 million on Adam and Henderson when they weren't essential then? ? So does that mean we have to sit and wait to be held ransom by these players until their contracts run out. F**k the f**k off and when you get there f**k off some more.

So you are offering opinions when you haven't even seen them (Downing, Adam, Henderson) play for us yet? Why does that seem a bit odd?

Then your little tirade about the deadwood. How exactly were we supposed to ship out the dross on May 31st? THE CLUB signed them to longterm contracts. In what way does this "reek of poor,poor ownership"?

Take a fookin breath and try to use some perspective.

simple, he's talking Sh!te

When you see us lagging behind the top four later in the season and you and the rest of the little lemmings that roam this forum start squeak, squeak, squeaking that things aren't all that f**king peachy, you will have wished that I was talking s**t my friend.

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