Thatcher - On her deathbed rumour

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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun May 08, 2011 12:03 pm

Just to add, me mah hates Maggie more than Igor does. :D
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sun May 08, 2011 12:04 pm

dawson99 wrote:It is a massive north south thing. There are reasons she got 3 terms, personally i couldnt stand the labour/socialist ideals, the IRA at it's height trying to bomb her, the strikes and all that.

She destroyed communities all over the country daws not just in the north . It was the falklands and the voting system that kept her in power mate .
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun May 08, 2011 12:05 pm

supersub wrote:A good start would be to read up on her attitudes and treatment of the football fan....the un-educated,unemployed heathens that gather at football grounds.

Hooliganism was rife in the 80's remember SS.
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Postby laza » Sun May 08, 2011 12:07 pm

More hooks in this thread then a trout catching  competition
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Postby Greavesie » Sun May 08, 2011 12:08 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Not even gonna bite in this thread . Suffice to say i will be dancing on the slags grave because it is personal you see it's very personal . I could give two fecks what anyone else thinks that's your prerogative.  Greavsie lad you can watch whatever you are told to watch and you can form an opinion from there mate . My opinion is formed from personal experience , personal experience of what she did to me ,my family ,my city and many other working class communities up and down the land . I lived it mate so i think i'm pretty qualified to decide for myself what type of person she was and what type of government she led. All i'll ask is ,when your researching ,do it with an open mind and not with any agenda and i reckon you will come to only one conclusion .

that's absolutely fine mate. I know how strongly you feel about it thats why I was careful with the way I worded my post. I appreciate what you're saying , I was just after more insight as to how her ways crippled the city. Like I say, I live in a world where Thatcher hasn't been in power

I have to say its frustrates the hell out of me to hear people my age bang on about her when they didn't live it, they too have been brought up believing certain ways of thinking, they're anti-tory because its been fed into them, they haven't been allowed to form their own opinion on the matter, maybe thats one reason I vote the way I do - half of my place vote labouor and I bet not many of them can genuinely say why

Like you lived through it and I can only speculate as to what it was like for you and the people of the city and I can't imagine it was an experience to remember (for the right reasons anyway)

watching things will never be as valuable as the voice of experience but I try to keep an open mind as far as things like this go

enjoy the pint matey  :)
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun May 08, 2011 12:08 pm

laza wrote:More hooks in this thread then a trout catching  competition

And there is the biggest hook of all.
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Postby dawson99 » Sun May 08, 2011 12:09 pm

This thread is going nowhere. Basically Thatcher was like having a flu shot. You don;t like it, you're feeling the effects for a long time but in the long run you see how necessary it was in the first place.

Igor is more than allwoed to have his opinion, but London in the 80s was a completely different world to Liverpool, and we all have our life stories. Some are good under a tory government, some (more than some on a liverpool site) will be bad.
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Postby Greavesie » Sun May 08, 2011 12:12 pm

This thread is going nowhere


I'm inclined to agree

Like I said if we could discuss what her reign was like to the people of Liverpool without getting cocky or provocative responses then it might go somewhere, but for some reason I can't see that happening :D
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun May 08, 2011 12:12 pm

dawson99 wrote:This thread is going nowhere. Basically Thatcher was like having a flu shot. You don;t like it, you're feeling the effects for a long time but in the long run you see how necessary it was in the first place.

Igor is more than allwoed to have his opinion, but London in the 80s was a completely different world to Liverpool, and we all have our life stories. Some are good under a tory government, some (more than some on a liverpool site) will be bad.

The home counties weren't much better, feck knows what London was like but it wasn't all blitz and glitz under her regime.

Igor's well entitled to his opinion as far as I'm concerned I know she was loathed by many.
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sun May 08, 2011 12:18 pm

dawson99 wrote:This thread is going nowhere. Basically Thatcher was like having a flu shot. You don;t like it, you're feeling the effects for a long time but in the long run you see how necessary it was in the first place.

Igor is more than allwoed to have his opinion, but London in the 80s was a completely different world to Liverpool, and we all have our life stories. Some are good under a tory government, some (more than some on a liverpool site) will be bad.

I had a lot of friends from darn sarf daws from when i worked on the ships and the ones from London in particular said . That although alot of London prospered under thatcher because of the banking industry and the finacial sector altogether . They reckoned that london lost alot of it's community spirit and became a very selfish and greedy city that was only interested in the me me me . It lost alot of it's friendliness according to them . Would you agree with that mate ?
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Postby Igor Zidane » Sun May 08, 2011 12:23 pm

Kenny Kan wrote:
dawson99 wrote:This thread is going nowhere. Basically Thatcher was like having a flu shot. You don;t like it, you're feeling the effects for a long time but in the long run you see how necessary it was in the first place.

Igor is more than allwoed to have his opinion, but London in the 80s was a completely different world to Liverpool, and we all have our life stories. Some are good under a tory government, some (more than some on a liverpool site) will be bad.

The home counties weren't much better, feck knows what London was like but it wasn't all blitz and glitz under her regime.

Igor's well entitled to his opinion as far as I'm concerned I know she was loathed by many.

I'm with your mum on this one lash , she's obviously a very clever lady . I wouldn't disagree that the unions had to much power in the 70's either , but imo under thatcher we went from one extreme to the other . Union became a dirty word and everyone in work should be entitled to representation .
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Postby dawson99 » Sun May 08, 2011 12:25 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
dawson99 wrote:This thread is going nowhere. Basically Thatcher was like having a flu shot. You don;t like it, you're feeling the effects for a long time but in the long run you see how necessary it was in the first place.

Igor is more than allwoed to have his opinion, but London in the 80s was a completely different world to Liverpool, and we all have our life stories. Some are good under a tory government, some (more than some on a liverpool site) will be bad.

I had a lot of friends from darn sarf daws from when i worked on the ships and the ones from London in particular said . That although alot of London prospered under thatcher because of the banking industry and the finacial sector altogether . They reckoned that london lost alot of it's community spirit and became a very selfish and greedy city that was only interested in the me me me . It lost alot of it's friendliness according to them . Would you agree with that mate ?

Not really... there was also a lot of fear with the IRA, shootnigs 2 streets away, things like that. And she was a mean a$$ b!tch who sorted sh!t out.

Also the strikes affected my family and there lot in a bad way, and were happy for the conservatives to sort it out, also to sort out the taxes and other stuff.

for me she was a dictator, a mean b!tch but a neccasary evil for the time we lived in. In the years since Labour had power back they did nothing, as what Thatcher did was needed to be done. The country was just ni a bad bad way abnd something ultra bad was needed.

As for pre-Thatcher being a friendly leave youir doors open society, thats just naieve.

thats honestly how i see it mate. sorry it was different for your lot, but life is selfish, and mine prospered more under tory rule than the labour commie bull weve had to put up with since
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Postby roberto green » Sun May 08, 2011 12:28 pm

Is she nearly dead, can't wait..I'll have to let me dad know as I know how much he despises the witch. He runs a pub so I think he will hod some kind of themed night for it.

I was only young when she was in power, but even at such a young age you knew who she was and what she represented, Families getting ripped apart from the poll tax too, My dad very nearly went to prison over it and his strong views against it. The fact that in a little 2 up 2 down house in Liverpool you could pay more poll tax than Sip Paul McCartney did in his Scotish mansion is unbelievable but it's exactly what the goverment has always represented with or without Nick Clegg :D .
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Postby laza » Sun May 08, 2011 12:28 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:I wouldn't disagree that the unions had to much power in the 70's either , but imo under thatcher we went from one extreme to the other . Union became a dirty word and everyone in work should be entitled to representation .

Thats problem in most of world Igor you never get a happy medium its always one extreme or other.

Your either working guts out on minmum wage with no job security so millionaire can become a billionaire

Or you got a union that goes out on strike because you have wrong flavour of icecream in  work canteen
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun May 08, 2011 12:35 pm

Greavsie lad, read this. It's from Wiki but I believe it to be pretty much spot on.


Economy and taxation

Thatcher's economic policy was influenced by monetarist thinking and economists such as Milton Friedman and Friedrich von Hayek.[62] Together with Chancellor of the Exchequer Geoffrey Howe, she lowered direct taxes on income and increased indirect taxes.[63] She increased interest rates to slow the growth of the money supply and thereby lower inflation,[62] introduced cash limits on public spending, and reduced expenditures on social services such as education and housing.[63] Her cuts in higher education spending resulted in her being the first Oxford-educated post-war Prime Minister not to be awarded an honorary doctorate by the University of Oxford, after a 738 to 319 vote of the governing assembly and a student petition.[64] Her new centrally funded City Technology Colleges did not enjoy much success, and the Funding Agency for Schools was set up to control expenditure by opening and closing schools; the Social Market Foundation, a right-wing think tank, described it as having "an extraordinary range of dictatorial powers".[65]

Some Heathite Conservatives in the Cabinet, the so-called "wets", expressed doubt over Thatcher's policies.[68] The 1981 riots in England resulted in the British media discussing the need for a policy U-turn. At the 1980 Conservative Party conference, Thatcher addressed the issue directly, with a speech written by the playwright Ronald Millar[69] that included the lines: "You turn if you want to. The lady's not for turning!"[68]
Thatcher's job approval rating fell to 23% by December 1980, lower than recorded for any previous Prime Minister.[70] As the recession of the early 1980s deepened she increased taxes,[71] despite concerns expressed in a statement signed by 364 leading economists issued towards the end of March 1981.[72]
By 1982 the UK began to experience signs of economic recovery;[73] inflation was down to 8.6% from a high of 18%, but unemployment was over 3 million for the first time since the 1930s.[74] By 1983 overall economic growth was stronger and inflation and mortgage rates were at their lowest levels since 1970, although manufacturing output had dropped by 30% since 1978[75] and unemployment remained high, peaking at 3.3 million in 1984.[76]
Throughout the 1980s revenue from the 90% tax on North Sea oil extraction was used as a short-term funding source to balance the economy and pay the costs of reform.[77]
Thatcher reformed local government taxes by replacing domestic rates—a tax based on the nominal rental value of a home—with the Community Charge (or poll tax) in which the same amount was charged to each adult resident.[78] The new tax was introduced in Scotland in 1989 and in England and Wales the following year,[79] and proved to be among the most unpopular policies of her premiership.[78] Public disquiet culminated in a 70,000-strong demonstration in London on 31 March 1990; the demonstration around Trafalgar Square deteriorated into the Poll Tax Riots, leaving 113 people injured and 340 under arrest.[80] The Community Charge was abolished by her successor, John Major.[80]



Recession in the United Kingdom

As with most of the developed world, recession also hit the United Kingdom at the turn of 1980s, although the economy had been plagued by a string of crises for most of the 1970s.
When the Conservative Party led by Margaret Thatcher won the general election of May 1979 and swept James Callaghan's Labour Party from power, the country had just witnessed the Winter of Discontent (THIS IS WHAT I (BAM) WAS TALKING ABOUT PREVIOUSLY in which numerous public sector workers had staged strikes. Inflation was about 10% and between 700,000 and 1,100,000 people were unemployed.[44] Margaret Thatcher set about to control inflation with monetarist policies and change trade union laws in an attempt to reduce the strikes which had blighted Britain for so many years.
Mrs Thatcher's battle against inflation resulted in the closure of many inefficient factories, shipyards and coalpits – mostly during her first four-year term in power. This helped bring inflation below 10% by the turn of 1982 (having peaked at 22% in 1980) and by spring 1983 it had fallen to a 15-year low of 4%. Strikes were also at their lowest level since the early 1950s.
However, it also resulted in unemployment reaching 3,000,000 by January 1982 – a level not seen for 50 years.
By April 1983, Britain – once known globally as the "workshop of the world" due to its strong manufacturing base – became a net importer of goods for the first time ever, largely due to the loss of heavy industry under Thatcher. Areas of Tyneside, Yorkshire, Merseyside, South Wales, the West of Scotland and the West Midlands were particularly hard hit by the loss of industry and subsequent sharp rise in unemployment, and in the first three years of Mrs Thatcher's premiership, opinion polls gave the Tory government approval ratings as low as 25%, with the polls initially being led by the Labour opposition and then by the SDP-Liberal Alliance which was formed by the Liberal Party and the Labour breakaway Social Democratic Party during 1981.
However, Britain's victory in the Falklands War in June 1982 sparked a turnaround in support for the Tory government, who were re-elected by a landslide in the general election 12 months later.[45]
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