Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:27 am

Fowler_E7 wrote:Benitez needs to go back to spain at a Valencia/Athletcio madrid level club and get his act together. Get back to what made him a good manager in the first place. Hopefully two sackings in a row will humble him and lead toa turn around because the man has completly lost the plot in the last 2 seasons.

Couldn't agree more. We see the excuses made for him as to the difficult time at Inter, but his first season with us saw a similar turn of events. Our injury problems were ridiculous, but he went on and won number 5, getting fantastic performances out of players like Biscan.

This is the man I admire, not the later one where his rule is absolute, this attitude has led to his downfall. He let power go to his head. Hopefully now he recognises he is not bigger than any club, and like Fowler said, get back to what made him a good manager in the first place.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:50 am

Despite what the detractors say, being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach. In inter, he has won them 2 trophies however relatively insignificant the trophies maybe. He needs to learn alright. He needs to learn to avoid owners that constantly screws him over. Because the man is a man of principle and if he thinks he's being unfairly treated he will not take it lying down.

by **metalhead** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:33 pm

maguskwt wrote:Despite what the detractors say, being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach. In inter, he has won them 2 trophies however relatively insignificant the trophies maybe. He needs to learn alright. He needs to learn to avoid owners that constantly screws him over. Because the man is a man of principle and if he thinks he's being unfairly treated he will not take it lying down.

Of course it doesn't, he is a fantastic coach who lost his plot and became to power greedy.

All he needs is to calm down and go with the flow.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:05 pm

maguskwt wrote:Despite what the detractors say, being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach. In inter, he has won them 2 trophies however relatively insignificant the trophies maybe. He needs to learn alright. He needs to learn to avoid owners that constantly screws him over. Because the man is a man of principle and if he thinks he's being unfairly treated he will not take it lying down.

he didn't get screwed over at Inter. He was well aware that there wasn't a lot of money to spend when he took the job in, which makes he public sack me or back me rant all the more baffling.

as some have said, he needs to take some time out and then go back to spain and start over.

by **Greavesie** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:49 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:Benny there isnt a chance in the world i will agree that Rafa was entitled to a penny, we will agree to disagree on this one.

shame like because you're opinion and what goes on in reality are two very different things, let's use examples to put it into context shall we?

if you are relieved of your position at work because your position is no longed required do you just walk or seek compensation for losing your job? my guess is you'd be after a payout right? then if your work hires someone else to do the same job you can sue them because they have misrepresented their reasons for terminating your contract.

the above highlights where the onus is on the employer

so now lets look at Ian Dowie and when he left a club because he wanted to be closer to his family,. He subsequently took another job that was located nowhere near them. Should the club not be entitled to sue him for misleading them?

so now I will turn to Rafa - he was asked to do a job for 5 years, one year in WE sack him. again, WE sack HIM. he didn't want to go, he'd still be here. It doesnt matter when he wants to get a new job, that mattes not. The issue is between club and Rafa, nobody else. There was nothing in a contract to say Rafa couldn't find work after Liverpool terminated his contract. His contract has a value, a value which he would earn but for Liverpool's desire to terminate his contract, therefore he is fully entitled to his compensation - of which he took significantly less than what he was entitled to anyway.

Ben, that's how EMPLOYMENT contracts work, whether you like it or not - you do realise that every sacked manager gets compo don't you? Scolari got £7.5m when Chelsea chucked him. I ain't even gonna mention Newcastle

If there was no entitlement to compensation then there'd be absolutely no point in specifying a length of a contract if the employer was free to terminate it whenever they please

by **lakes10** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:31 pm

maguskwt wrote:Despite what the detractors say, being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach. In inter, he has won them 2 trophies however relatively insignificant the trophies maybe. He needs to learn alright. He needs to learn to avoid owners that constantly screws him over. Because the man is a man of principle and if he thinks he's being unfairly treated he will not take it lying down.

"being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach."

hmmm let just take a min and think about that shall we................er yes is does, you dont get sacked if you are doing the job well and keeping your mouth shut about the club.

by **metalhead** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:05 am

Greavesie wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Benny there isnt a chance in the world i will agree that Rafa was entitled to a penny, we will agree to disagree on this one.

shame like because you're opinion and what goes on in reality are two very different things, let's use examples to put it into context shall we?

if you are relieved of your position at work because your position is no longed required do you just walk or seek compensation for losing your job? my guess is you'd be after a payout right? then if your work hires someone else to do the same job you can sue them because they have misrepresented their reasons for terminating your contract.

the above highlights where the onus is on the employer

so now lets look at Ian Dowie and when he left a club because he wanted to be closer to his family,. He subsequently took another job that was located nowhere near them. Should the club not be entitled to sue him for misleading them?

so now I will turn to Rafa - he was asked to do a job for 5 years, one year in WE sack him. again, WE sack HIM. he didn't want to go, he'd still be here. It doesnt matter when he wants to get a new job, that mattes not. The issue is between club and Rafa, nobody else. There was nothing in a contract to say Rafa couldn't find work after Liverpool terminated his contract. His contract has a value, a value which he would earn but for Liverpool's desire to terminate his contract, therefore he is fully entitled to his compensation - of which he took significantly less than what he was entitled to anyway.

Ben, that's how EMPLOYMENT contracts work, whether you like it or not - you do realise that every sacked manager gets compo don't you? Scolari got £7.5m when Chelsea chucked him. I ain't even gonna mention Newcastle

If there was no entitlement to compensation then there'd be absolutely no point in specifying a length of a contract if the employer was free to terminate it whenever they please

Greavsie,

it all depends on the nature of the employment contract. If the employment contract has a probation clause that basically states that the employee has a 3 or 6 month probationary review. If the employers don't like what they are seeing, then the employee is sacked and NO compensation is given.

In Rafa, he was entitled for his compensation at Liverpool because he stayed for 6 years, and he should have asked for more too! I don't know the nature of his employment contract at Inter to argue regarding getting his compensation or not, but I think in his type of employee level (Employee grade levels) probationary reviews aren't included in his contract, unless its different in Football.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:19 am

This is the only Liverpool forum that has 3 Rafa topics bumped on the frontpage, get over it hes gone?

Roys the manager now why you all still arguing over Rafa and Roy gets off the hook?

by **maguskwt** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:16 am

lakes10 wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Despite what the detractors say, being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach. In inter, he has won them 2 trophies however relatively insignificant the trophies maybe. He needs to learn alright. He needs to learn to avoid owners that constantly screws him over. Because the man is a man of principle and if he thinks he's being unfairly treated he will not take it lying down.

"being sacked 2 times in a season, does not reflect Benitez abilities as a coach."

hmmm let just take a min and think about that shall we................er yes is does, you dont get sacked if you are doing the job well and keeping your mouth shut about the club.

So why was there Inter fans coming on here asking how benitez was as a manager of LFC and they were claiming at their club money wasn't an issue meaning they were willing to spend on players... Moratti obviously misled the fans as well as Rafa...

EDIT: actually I was suppose to quote 7_kewell's post...

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:11 am

Ciggy wrote:This is the only Liverpool forum that has 3 Rafa topics bumped on the frontpage, get over it hes gone?

Roys the manager now why you all still arguing over Rafa and Roy gets off the hook?

says the one with a rafa sig :laugh:

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:01 am

Greavesie wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:Benny there isnt a chance in the world i will agree that Rafa was entitled to a penny, we will agree to disagree on this one.

shame like because you're opinion and what goes on in reality are two very different things, let's use examples to put it into context shall we?

if you are relieved of your position at work because your position is no longed required do you just walk or seek compensation for losing your job? my guess is you'd be after a payout right? then if your work hires someone else to do the same job you can sue them because they have misrepresented their reasons for terminating your contract.

the above highlights where the onus is on the employer

so now lets look at Ian Dowie and when he left a club because he wanted to be closer to his family,. He subsequently took another job that was located nowhere near them. Should the club not be entitled to sue him for misleading them?

so now I will turn to Rafa - he was asked to do a job for 5 years, one year in WE sack him. again, WE sack HIM. he didn't want to go, he'd still be here. It doesnt matter when he wants to get a new job, that mattes not. The issue is between club and Rafa, nobody else. There was nothing in a contract to say Rafa couldn't find work after Liverpool terminated his contract. His contract has a value, a value which he would earn but for Liverpool's desire to terminate his contract, therefore he is fully entitled to his compensation - of which he took significantly less than what he was entitled to anyway.

Ben, that's how EMPLOYMENT contracts work, whether you like it or not - you do realise that every sacked manager gets compo don't you? Scolari got £7.5m when Chelsea chucked him. I ain't even gonna mention Newcastle

If there was no entitlement to compensation then there'd be absolutely no point in specifying a length of a contract if the employer was free to terminate it whenever they please

lets take a car salesman for example. he is required to hit a certain quota each month, and after some time, he stop delivering. based on performance alone, the company can dismiss him. even if it was not written in black and white, certain verbal agreements can be considered to be of significant importance though of course that is limited by the statute of frauds doctrine. so, comments like "you will be here so long as you finish 4th at least" can be taken into account.

furthermore, contracts in employment are made "at will" hence an employee could have his contract terminated at any time so even if there was a specification of the length of contract, it can be terminated any time. but employment contracts also limit the right the employer has, to fire the employee so the employee can always claim for wrongful dismissal so hence the need for compensation.

as for the Ian Dowie example, Crystal Palace did win the court battle naturally as they claim Dowie had fraudulently misled them about his reasons for leaving the club. their chairman, Simon Jordan had inserted a clause in the manager's contract which stated that if he left to join another club, Crystal Palace would receive €1 million in compensation. so exclusion clauses do play a big role too.

for the compensation regards to Scolari, no doubt Chelsea has been dishing out loads of compensation money since getting rid of Mourinho as not only does it include compensation to the manager, but also to the backroom staff who leave with the manager, be it Grant or Scolari.

for Rafa's case, he was entitled compensation no doubt, but the owners then, only have themselves to blame for being stupid enough to give him such a long contract. we all know how rubbish they are when it comes to anything legal

by **lakes10** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:28 pm

Ciggy wrote:This is the only Liverpool forum that has 3 Rafa topics bumped on the frontpage, get over it hes gone?

Roys the manager now why you all still arguing over Rafa and Roy gets off the hook?

some members have got over it.....some still have photos of rafa under there name lol

by **Weallliveinaperrygrovesworld** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:19 pm

Roy off the hook. Classic from the viz characters

its hard to get off topic when half the 'fans' on here have that picture of him giving out tea...

I'm sure Rafa will find his next paycheck soon, just not at my club, Arsenal... thats for sure

by **neil** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:02 pm

so they beat chelsea and suddenly their fans are surfin other clubs sites lol

by **7_Kewell** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:46 pm

maguskwt wrote:So why was there Inter fans coming on here asking how benitez was as a manager of LFC and they were claiming at their club money wasn't an issue meaning they were willing to spend on players... Moratti obviously misled the fans as well as Rafa...

EDIT: actually I was suppose to quote 7_kewell's post...

The owner has come out and said Rafa knew the situation when he signed for Inter. So he's not been screwed over.

All Rafa's done, as usual, is demand complete control while refusing to take any responsibility for things when they go wrong. He did it here, and now he's done it at Inter. It's always someone else's fault with Rafa and he's established a reputation for it now.

read this, it pretty much sums it up
click me

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