Wingers... - Something that needs to be addressed

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby anti-hero » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:19 am

Penguins wrote:The only reason we haven't had a top class winger for a long time is cause when push comes to shove we have never been willing to spunk out the necessary money it cost simple as.

That is why we get cheap hard working Kuyt type style of players who can't dribble even if their life depended on it....

agreed.

i dont know why, but we NEVER pay top dollar for a winger. to be fair, we shelled out close to 8 million for jermaine pennant, and about 5 for harry kewell, but since then, the lack of any serious interest let alone action, in those positions have been comical.

and in the case of babel, well.. he's be considered a flop regardless of whether or not he played up front or on the wings. but we paid 11.5 regardless.

i think its about time we put an end to this awkward tradition of buying attacking midfielders or strikers, (benayoun, maxi, luis garcia, kuyt, babel) and sticking them on the flanks.

its a specialist role and specialists are needed.

i'd really like to see SWP in a red shirt.
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Postby Aussie Style » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:59 am

Sanchez down the right, Adam Johnson down the left. F.uck that would be immense.
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Postby metalhead » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:05 am

boodiddy1 wrote:
metalhead wrote:I don't think a winger who can only cross a ball will cut it with us. The reason why is because we don't have strikers who attack crosses in the 6 yard box, the only player I seem to remember doing that was Morientes. I say Johnson is our best crosser in the team, Maxi and Kuyt are ok too.

We need a winger whose intelligent, good on the ball, can cross and a dribbler. Not too many to pick from, but Sanchez is a good shout. Jesus Navas is another who I really rate (brilliant player).

MH, i cant believe you said Maxi and Kuyt are quite good a t crosses. Kuyt is the poorest crosser of a football in many  a year. He always hits the fullback because of his inability to beat the full back. Maxi always cuts in and never produces.

Wingers in theory are great, but ours never get high enough up the pitch because they are always helping out our fullbacks.

I would like to see at least one great winger. Similar to when Barnes was in our team. Our right side was more a workhorse side, with Johnston, Mcmahon, Houghton etc.

If you play with two orthodox wingers then you must get mobilty and strength in the centre. Petit,Viera like. Ground coverers with tactical nouse. Im afraid Lucas and Stevie or Raul and Stevie would leave us open.

If we are to take wingers into the squad then id take Nzogbia and Johnson.

They can also swap sides and are could be effective throught he middle also. Bale would be fanciful, but you gotta be able to dream.

I said they are OK mate not good, out of 10 crosses they tend to produce 3 or 4 good ones. I agree about Kuyt, he can't beat a fullback.

Johnson is our best crosser of the ball
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:00 am

7_Kewell wrote:Gerrard's best season for us was on the right wing. I'd love to see him out there again, but he's clearly got some agreement going on.

Only in terms of goals.

His greatest impact comes from the middle, even if it means trading off some goals. Pretty much all of his most influential goals and performances have come from the middle.
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Postby Sabre » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:25 am

7_Kewell wrote:Dragging things away from the Roy/Rafa debate, i’d like to discuss FOOTBALL...and in particular wingers because we’ve lacked width for a long, long time.

So true.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:52 am

Penguins wrote:The only reason we haven't had a top class winger for a long time is cause when push comes to shove we have never been willing to spunk out the necessary money it cost simple as.

That is why we get cheap hard working Kuyt type style of players who can't dribble even if their life depended on it....

Which is half the reason why we never quite made it to the next level. We may have threatened to in 08/09 but had Rafa been backed to buy the first choice players that he wanted then we'd have Simao and Malouda at the Football Club now. He also wanted Milner when he was leaving Newcastle and we were also interested in Bale and Walcott. If reports are to believd, we missed out on Walcott because Parry in his infinite wisdom wouldn't pay an extra £500k that Southampton wanted. And don't even get me started on Daniel Alves who our board considered "too expensive" at £12m or David Silva a couple of seasons back.

That's what happens when you don't get fully backed. You end up with second or even third choice players. Riera and Pennant for example who probably had six decent months each before disappearing into oblivion.
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Postby burjennio » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:59 pm

Malouda decided he didnt want to come here and engineered (or his agent did) the move to Chelsea but the excuses our board dished out for not signing Alves and Simao (twice) were laughable, what kind of money did they think this class of player would cost? The most glaring player we never spunked up the money for though was Cristiano Ronaldo

And guys, Fabio Aurelio is the best crosser of a ball at the club by miles
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Postby metalhead » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:02 pm

burjennio wrote:And guys, Fabio Aurelio is the best crosser of a ball at the club by miles

oh :censored:, your right.. completely forgot he was playing for us

:D
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:57 pm

burjennio wrote:Malouda decided he didnt want to come here and engineered (or his agent did) the move to Chelsea but the excuses our board dished out for not signing Alves and Simao (twice) were laughable, what kind of money did they think this class of player would cost? The most glaring player we never spunked up the money for though was Cristiano Ronaldo

And guys, Fabio Aurelio is the best crosser of a ball at the club by miles

But.... a winger needs far more than a good cross. Look at Lennon. Quality winger yet I would say his crossing is not his best asset.

Pace and the ability to beat a player rank further up the list in my opinion. The only exception to that rule is if a winger has ridiculously accurate crossing consistently, I.e. Beckham.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:32 pm

stmichael wrote:
Penguins wrote:The only reason we haven't had a top class winger for a long time is cause when push comes to shove we have never been willing to spunk out the necessary money it cost simple as.

That is why we get cheap hard working Kuyt type style of players who can't dribble even if their life depended on it....

Which is half the reason why we never quite made it to the next level. We may have threatened to in 08/09 but had Rafa been backed to buy the first choice players that he wanted then we'd have Simao and Malouda at the Football Club now. He also wanted Milner when he was leaving Newcastle and we were also interested in Bale and Walcott. If reports are to believd, we missed out on Walcott because Parry in his infinite wisdom wouldn't pay an extra £500k that Southampton wanted. And don't even get me started on Daniel Alves who our board considered "too expensive" at £12m or David Silva a couple of seasons back.

That's what happens when you don't get fully backed. You end up with second or even third choice players. Riera and Pennant for example who probably had six decent months each before disappearing into oblivion.

i don't rate Walcott. As far as im concered he's the greatest thing never to have happened in English football.

He's fast, but his crossing is poor and his finishing is hit and miss. Vastly over rated in my view.
Last edited by 7_Kewell on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby burjennio » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:45 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
burjennio wrote:Malouda decided he didnt want to come here and engineered (or his agent did) the move to Chelsea but the excuses our board dished out for not signing Alves and Simao (twice) were laughable, what kind of money did they think this class of player would cost? The most glaring player we never spunked up the money for though was Cristiano Ronaldo

And guys, Fabio Aurelio is the best crosser of a ball at the club by miles

But.... a winger needs far more than a good cross. Look at Lennon. Quality winger yet I would say his crossing is not his best asset.

Pace and the ability to beat a player rank further up the list in my opinion. The only exception to that rule is if a winger has ridiculously accurate crossing consistently, I.e. Beckham.

Beckham also had excellent workrate, something people forget but an attribute a lot of so called "great players" could do with a lot more of.

The truth is a winger is only of benefit if you have the quality and they fit the system your playing. No one would class Barca as having wingers in the traditional sense (Messi and Pedro play more like old fashioned inside forwards) but they are the best team on Earth. Most of their width is provided by their fullbacks Alves and Maxwell, AC Milan under Ancelotti also used the fullbacks to the same effect. However a team like Spurs currently use a 4411 formation that maximises wing play -  Bale and Lennon rarely leave the touchline yet are an absolute nightmare to play against, especially at White Hart Lane, of course they have two excellent central midfielders in there in Van Der Vaart and Modric who can find them in great positions time and time again with their vision and passing ability. Our problem at the moment is that we dont have real quality in out wide positions with the exception of Johnson, and he time and time again gets caught out of position trying to provide us the width we so desperately lack. We also have Aurelio who has proved when he can get an injury free run going that he can be a quality player, its no coincidence that in the run-in of 08/09 when most would agree we played our best football since the Roy Evans days that we had a fully fit Aurelio and Albert Riera playing during his best period for the club. We crushed some of Europes top sides during that period as they couldnt handle the tempo we moved the ball with all around the pitch and the pressure we put on them when we wern't in possession. Seems like decades ago now :sniffle
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Postby stmichael » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:56 pm

7_Kewell wrote:i don't rate Walcott. As far as im concered he's the greatest thing never to have happened.

He's fast, but his crossing is poor and his finishing is hit and miss. Vastly over rated in my view.

i'm not his biggest fan either but i actually think his finishing is decent, which is why long term i can see wenger playing him upfront. as you say though his crossing is abysmal and his decision making is woeful the majority of the time, especially when he has time to think about things. he's at his most dangerous when he plays on instinct. think of him as an english cisse. :D

p.s. adam johnson is the best english winger by a country mile. he's two footed, can play on either flank, and more importantly he has an end product. hey lee put a word in.  :angry:  :D
Last edited by stmichael on Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Penguins » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:05 pm

Well, Adam Johnson was there for the taking but we missed that ship by once again not paying up.
We sure try to bark like the big dogs but when it's time to play the club runs away with the tail between their legs.

When you cheap out and get Pennant for 7 and Benayun for 5 instead of Alves for 12 and Simao for 11 then you also get what you deserve.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:01 pm

Penguins wrote:Well, Adam Johnson was there for the taking but we missed that ship by once again not paying up.
We sure try to bark like the big dogs but when it's time to play the club runs away with the tail between their legs.

When you cheap out and get Pennant for 7 and Benayun for 5 instead of Alves for 12 and Simao for 11 then you also get what you deserve.

i'd take Adam Johnson in a heartbeat.

AS for Benny, i thought he was a good player for what we paid. A winger? i'm not sure, but a good creative midfielder none the less.

I'd like to see us spend big on a creative, fast, intelligent wide man who can beat this man and get a cross in. Ngog would benfit greatly for a start and it would help us break the deadlock of thos dull games that get stuck in the middle of the park, with 11 men all trying to run into the centre circle.
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Postby Redtribe » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:57 pm

We have a great winger in glen johnson if we choose to push him up the field.
I thnk martin kelly has proved himself in th rb role.
That means we can look to spend elsewhere.
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