How do we break back into the top three? - It's a mssive task.

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:43 pm

If your not going to get involved in the debate or talk about the manager then don't bring him up in your post - if you make statements like that people will respond to them - it's a statement you constantly bring up as well .
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Postby tubby » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:43 pm

Mick you say you are not going to get involved but then you keep making silly digs just after, and again with predicting where he will finish. Does it give you some sort of vindication to get a dig in every time you post? Just let it go will ya. It's been a pretty calm day considering how heated it was yesterday so why not just try and keep the peace without the snidy comments mate.
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Postby tubby » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:43 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:If your not going to get involved in the debate or talk about the manager then don't bring him up in your post - if you make statements like that people will respond to them - it's a statement you constantly bring up as well .

:D snap
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Postby Zidane » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:45 pm

bigmick wrote:
Zidane wrote:I would get rid of Carra, Stevie , Skrtel, Maxi, Jova, Babel, Poulson and N'gog.. probably Meireles as well,

??? Not being rude or anything so I'll just say i disagree.

I'm sure many will, but frankly he has maybe two, three seasons at best and I don't think he'll accept taking a backseat if we were to get in players better than him once he is somewhat past it.  I'd really like to believe that he could follow the Scholes/Giggs paths but I don't see it personally.  I'd love for Stevie to prove me wrong though because he is simply put, world class.  Also, he sulks too much, more tough times are ahead imo and we need someone to encourage the lads more rather than constantly give them sh!t on the pitch.
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Postby bigmick » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:48 pm

Look I'm not getting involved with either of you two guys on here. The thread is about the state the squad is in assuming a new manager should come in and then sit down to assess it. Why you are both desperate to derail I'm fecked if I know, but I'll spell it out again.

IN MY OPINION I THINK THE SQUAD IS A MILE AWAY FROM BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO SERIOUSLY CHALLENGE FOR THE TOP THREE. THAT MAY BECOME MORE THAN A MILE VERY SOON IF WE LOSE SOME OF OUR BETTER PLAYERS. WE HAVE NO YOUNGSTERS COMING THROUGH TO SPEAK OF, AND OUR FINANCIAL SITUATION LOOKS INSUFFICIENT AT THIS STAGE TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. WE HAVE LOTS OF PLAYERS WHO ARE ON BIG MONEY WHO WILL BE DIFFICULT TO MOVE ON.

Now, if you want to talk about a manager who will surely be gone soon anyway, go ahead. I'm trying to look at a bigger picture here if you don't mind.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:55 pm

bigmick wrote:Look I'm not getting involved with either of you two guys on here. The thread is about the state the squad is in assuming a new manager should come in and then sit down to assess it. Why you are both desperate to derail I'm fecked if I know, but I'll spell it out again.

IN MY OPINION I THINK THE SQUAD IS A MILE AWAY FROM BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO SERIOUSLY CHALLENGE FOR THE TOP THREE. THAT MAY BECOME MORE THAN A MILE VERY SOON IF WE LOSE SOME OF OUR BETTER PLAYERS. WE HAVE NO YOUNGSTERS COMING THROUGH TO SPEAK OF, AND OUR FINANCIAL SITUATION LOOKS INSUFFICIENT AT THIS STAGE TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. WE HAVE LOTS OF PLAYERS WHO ARE ON BIG MONEY WHO WILL BE DIFFICULT TO MOVE ON.

Now, if you want to talk about a manager who will surely be gone soon anyway, go ahead. I'm trying to look at a bigger picture here if you don't mind.

Simple then - Stop mentioning him then if you dont want to talk about him , comments like this

Yes we should change him just to unite the club and stop people making fools of themselves,

and

think this manager will probably finish in a similar position to the last one did

Are comments you just slip into your posts on numerous occasions then when you get pulled up about them you resort to the old "this is not about the manager " or " im not talking about the manager "

If thats the case then dont slip in the little remarks . Everyone can see them .
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Postby bigmick » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:25 am

Mate go and talk about the manager in other threads. How simple can it be? You really seem to be on a mission sometimes to derail every single thread.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:28 am

Ok simple question which I hope your able to answer - why come up with those comments in this thread if you don't want to talk about the manager ? What is the purpose of them
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Postby bigmick » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:34 am

Ok I'll answer your two in bold quotes, then I'm off to bed because I can't be bothered.

The "unifying the fans" argument is one I'v ebelieved in for a long time. To be honest though, why I think the manager should be sacked is pretty much irrelevent it seems to me.  think we should change him, isn't that enough?

As for where we will finsih, I've consistently said i think we'll finish somewhere between 4th and 8th. My actual guess is 6th. Now as I said, you probably don't agree with that (I have no idea where you think we'll finish to be honest) but it is a moot point anyhow as I think we both are of the opinion that hodgson won't see the season out anyway.

So to recap. I agree with you that we should change the manager. We agree. I think we should change him for two reasons. Firstly because the fans would get behind a new manager and stop the persecution and villification. Secondly, because I think we will finish sixth and I am not confident he is up to the massive task of rebuilding the club.

Anyway, nighty night.
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Postby mart » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:21 am

The squad is a lot better than what you have seen lately. The current tactics are horrible for the type of players we have and many are played out of position. Some of the new guys have hardly had a chance to show what they can do either.
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Postby killerp » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:50 am

Players who do not belong to the future vision of the club should depart asap for a reasonable sum. Start bringing in the young (GOOD!) players now & rebuild the youth system.

Breaking into the top 3 I think is highly unlikely given the current squad, staying in Europe at all will be a decent chanllenge. A lot depends on how business is done in January.
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Postby Simari » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:06 am

Losing Torres and Reina? We would be nuts to sell them and JH should be doing everything he can to keep them.

The only way to demonstrate that is through the ability to attract talent of similar levels.

Wherein lies the issue.

We will not be in the CL next year. So how do JH and co, convince world class internationals to stay? In my opinion, and I agree with BigMick here - they will leave for substantial fees.

But without the likes of Torres and Reina at Liverpool and no prospect of the Champions League in sight, who would want to join us?

I'd say we need someone at the helm who can make ordinary players work like a great team with passion and commitment and demonstrate why it is simply worth it being part of LFC, to potential stars.

A good post BigMick - one that every supporter should observe closely to reset our expectations from the team, for the next few years.
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Postby Red-er-Dare » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:23 am

I think it could take us another couple of seasons to break into the top three, for now we have to set our standards a little lower I think i.e 4th, 5th & 6th for a couple of seasons. I'm still dubious to see how Henry & co go as most of their soundbites imply they're concerntrating on the youth and looking long term, it could be their diplomatic way of saying we're not going to spend big on a short term basis.

Then we've got the issue of the manager to clear up before we can also start thinking about the top 3 position. Regardless of your stance on him, he appears to be drowning at this 'Pool as it looks as though the waves of expectation are pushing him under more and more. Personally when he was appointed I said to myself, I'm certainly not going to do cartwheels about him coming here, but will see how he goes at least until christmas, I was am willing to give him a fair go. His position at the club would have to be precaurious even though Henry has come out and insinuated that it's not all his fault, he'll know (up top in the boardroom, staff, fans etc etc) who's not happy and would surely have an ear on in all of this.

So from what we've heard from Henry and the situation of our manager it's quite hard to contemplate breaking into 3rd position if I'm being honest. Henry can't really afford to naff about too much though because 'the straw' for some of our key players is nearing on the horizon to breaking the camels back. With ageing players, and others getting itchy feet some sort of investment needs to come in. We can't languish about in mid-table waiting for youth to come through in five years time once the likes of Torres, Reina, Carragher and Gerrard in all probablity have left in one way or another; that IMO would set us back further.

These below are the players I think we could do with in the team, squad and those who I think need to be offloaded:


                     Deadwood                                      Squad                                  first team

                     Babel                                                Carragher                                 Reina
                     Poulsen                                             Lucas                                      Johnson
                     Skertel                                              Cole--------> (borderline)           Agger
                     Maxi                                                  Kuyt                                       CB ?
                     Jovanovic                                           N'gog (3rd/4th choice)               LB ?
                     Konchesky                                          Merieles                                   Aquailani                                 
                     Soto (unfortunately/ due to age)                                                          Gerrard
                                                                                                                           LM ?
                                                                                                                           RM ?
                                                                                                                           AM/S ? (possibly Cole)
                                                                                                                           Torres

Whoops forget a few.

Deadwood= Aurelio
Squad= Kelly, Shelvey
Team= Meireles/Aquailani I'm not sure if either are nailed on starters although I like the technical ability of Alberto and the contributions he's able to make out in the final third. Meireles hasn't won me over yet, could be the system we're playing but he looks industrious in comparison to cultured.
Last edited by Red-er-Dare on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:37 am

im worried about our back 4. you see,

Carragher isnt getting old and soon he will have to move aside. ease him into a rotational role just like how Hyypia was.

Skrtel showed against Stoke, his bad habit of making silly fouls. he was lucky to get away with 2 penalties as well. he should be sold. give Mavinga and Wilson the opportunity to win a place.

Agger is injured far too often it seems. its sad because i feel that in time, he could be the best defender the club has as he can attack and defend. keep him, give him time to improve on his fitness. patience may reap rewards. it wasnt too long ago AC Milan saw him as Nesta's replacement after all.

Kyrgiakos, like Carra, is past 30 but unlike Carra, he is an offensive threat which makes me want him to stay. he is our very own Vidic or Terry at set pieces.

Konchesky is not the long term solution. but at his age, i doubt we would be able to recoup what we paid for him hence, i suggest we keep him as back-up to the new left back i propose we buy. he can make up for the english quota as well.

Kelly is a great prospect and will give Johnson a good run for his money. Johnson, is not living up to the standards we know he is capable of. but we know what is capable of, and with those 2, i believe we're sorted on the right side.

Aurelio is made of glass and should never had been allowed to return. waste of space. Insua is out on loan and i doubt he would return as his contract runs out i believe?

start with the back 4. with a better back 4, the remaining offensive minded players would be braver to venture forward as they are confident of the defenders protecting Reina. so i suggest we buy 2 players for the defense - a left back and a central defender because Carra and Kyrgiakos are past 30 while Mavinga and Wilson are raw.


left back options: Taiwo, Tremoulinas, Cissokho, Baines.


central defenders: Shawcross, Diakhate, Kjaer, Cahill.
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Postby The Raven » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:37 am

I wish people would stop going on about aqua man. He was a crock, he didnt want to play for us and wont ever play for us again.

OP question.

1. Replace Roy in the summer.

2. Remove the likes of babel, jova, poulson, form the squad.

3. Spend spend spend.
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