Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:35 pm

andy_g wrote:comparing ourselves to the top 3, in terms of squad we are not so weak.

the gap is definitely narrowing that's for sure. i looked at united and chelsea's benches over the weekend and they were as poor as i can ever remember. united were relying on macheda and obertan and chelsea were relying on sturridge and kakuta to change the games. they're no way near as strong as 2-3 years ago. infact arsenal, city and spurs have much stronger benches.

if arsenal can get van persie back fit and firing i really fancy them for the title, unless fabianski cost them at the other end.

by **The_Rock** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:00 pm

To reply to the thread question....how to break back into the top 3 ....? SACK RH. Thats the only way.

We have some really good players (Torres, Gerrard, Agger, Reina, Raul M & Joe Cole).....a very tactically sound manager with awesome motivational ability will be able to gel the rest of the squad with the above players and come up with a league challenging team (at the very least).

RH can't do it. Its no point giving him additional time ....as you can't teach a old dog (very old one at that) new tricks.

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:04 pm

The_Rock wrote:To reply to the thread question....how to break back into the top 3 ....? SACK RH. Thats the only way.

We have some really good players (Torres, Gerrard, Agger, Reina, Raul M & Joe Cole).....a very tactically sound manager with awesome motivational ability will be able to gel the rest of the squad with the above players and come up with a league challenging team (at the very least).

RH can't do it. Its no point giving him additional time ....as you can't teach a old dog (very old one at that) new tricks.

who do we bring in?

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:04 pm

stmichael wrote:
andy_g wrote:comparing ourselves to the top 3, in terms of squad we are not so weak.

the gap is definitely narrowing that's for sure.

I couldn't disagree more. Yes their benches are probably not as strong as they were three or four seasons ago, but with the greatest repsect the lads involved, our FIRST TEAM is littered with guys who really ought to be no more than squad players and that's at the very best.

In the team which lined up against Stoke, these players highlighted below should only be playing if we're short IMHO:

Reina

Carragher Skyrtel Kyriakos Konchesky

Mereiles Gerrard Lucas Maxi

Kuyt

Torres.

Now when you also consider that in that line up, Carragher, Mereiles and Maxi are playing out of position in order to compensate for shortages, it says a lot. Equally, our striker cover should Torres be injured is one David N'Gog. As previously mentioned, the Mancs don't need Wellbeck, as they have Rooney, Berbatov, Macheda and the little mexican kid who's name escapes me. You might argue that Johnson and Cole would make us stronger if fit and I'd probably agree, but not by THAT much.

Usually you can look at our team and say "if we had him and him we'd win it". Sometimes you look at it and say "if we had him, we'd win it". Right now though, I don't think either of those stements hold true. Nicholas Bendnter is on about leaving Arsenal because he can't get a game, Daniel Sturridge and Soloman Kalou can't get a game at Chelsea, Emannuel Adebayor and Roque Santa Cruz can't get one at City. They'd fecking get a game for us alright, that's for sure.

by **metalhead** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:11 pm

I agree about Kuyt, as I said in the Stoke thread, you need good players around him to get the best out of him, thats why he doesn't look out of place in the Holland squad.

We need 5 players, we are really in short of quality. We need a center back, left back, left winger, right winger and a striker if we ever want to challenge.

I would keep the likes of Maxi, Lucas, Kyriagkos and Skrtel as good squad players, because they can do the job once needed.

Sell Poulsen, Jovanovic, Babel and Ngog.

by **bigmick** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:18 pm

I should also add, that Carragher must be in his final couple of seasons at best, Gerrard is not quite the player he was, Reina and Torres both IMHO are getting itchy feet, Kuyt needs top players around him while Mereiles is only promising so far. It really doesn't look too good.

by **stmichael** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:20 pm

bigmick wrote:
stmichael wrote:
andy_g wrote:comparing ourselves to the top 3, in terms of squad we are not so weak.

the gap is definitely narrowing that's for sure.

I couldn't disagree more. Yes their benches are probably not as strong as they were three or four seasons ago, but with the greatest repsect the lads involved, our FIRST TEAM is littered with guys who really ought to be no more than squad players and that's at the very best.

In the team which lined up against Stoke, these players highlighted below should only be playing if we're short IMHO:

Reina

Carragher Skyrtel Kyriakos Konchesky

Mereiles Gerrard Lucas Maxi

Kuyt

Torres.

Now when you also consider that in that line up, Carragher, Mereiles and Maxi are playing out of position in order to compensate for shortages, it says a lot. Equally, our striker cover should Torres be injured is one David N'Gog. As previously mentioned, the Mancs don't need Wellbeck, as they have Rooney, Berbatov, Macheda and the little mexican kid who's name escapes me. You might argue that Johnson and Cole would make us stronger if fit and I'd probably agree, but not by THAT much.

Usually you can look at our team and say "if we had him and him we'd win it". Sometimes you look at it and say "if we had him, we'd win it". Right now though, I don't think either of those stements hold true. Nicholas Bendnter is on about leaving Arsenal because he can't get a game, Daniel Sturridge and Soloman Kalou can't get a game at Chelsea, Emannuel Adebayor and Roque Santa Cruz can't get one at City. They'd fecking get a game for us alright, that's for sure.

i agree that we lack depth but i was just saying that the other teams also do, far moreso than they did in the past anyway. whatever anyone says, with a decent manager our squad has the quality to finish in the top 6 at the very least. recently hodgson has made out our squad is poorer than it really is to make his own performance seem better despite saying that we were "overstaffed when he first arrived.

by **metalhead** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:21 pm

If we kept Riera and Aquilani, maybe things would have been different

Johnson/ Kelly - Carragher - Kyriagkos - Konchesky

Meireles - Gerrard

Joe Cole/ Kuyt Aquilani Riera

Torres

that would have been very balanced, maybe we would have
seen a better Liverpool side than the one we are seeing today. But we will never know that.

edit: feck me I forgot to add aquilani

by **Penguins** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:13 pm

bigmick wrote:
stmichael wrote:
andy_g wrote:comparing ourselves to the top 3, in terms of squad we are not so weak.

the gap is definitely narrowing that's for sure.

I couldn't disagree more. Yes their benches are probably not as strong as they were three or four seasons ago, but with the greatest repsect the lads involved, our FIRST TEAM is littered with guys who really ought to be no more than squad players and that's at the very best.

In the team which lined up against Stoke, these players highlighted below should only be playing if we're short IMHO:

Reina

Carragher Skyrtel Kyriakos Konchesky

Mereiles Gerrard Lucas Maxi

Kuyt

Torres.

Now when you also consider that in that line up, Carragher, Mereiles and Maxi are playing out of position in order to compensate for shortages, it says a lot. Equally, our striker cover should Torres be injured is one David N'Gog. As previously mentioned, the Mancs don't need Wellbeck, as they have Rooney, Berbatov, Macheda and the little mexican kid who's name escapes me. You might argue that Johnson and Cole would make us stronger if fit and I'd probably agree, but not by THAT much.

Usually you can look at our team and say "if we had him and him we'd win it". Sometimes you look at it and say "if we had him, we'd win it". Right now though, I don't think either of those stements hold true. Nicholas Bendnter is on about leaving Arsenal because he can't get a game, Daniel Sturridge and Soloman Kalou can't get a game at Chelsea, Emannuel Adebayor and Roque Santa Cruz can't get one at City. They'd fecking get a game for us alright, that's for sure.

I'd agree with but I would also add Carra and Kuyt to that lot.

Both 30+ and Carra is just declining by the month.

And what I can agree with also is that there is a chance Torres, Reina etc might leave keeping Kuyt makes no sense whatsoever.

A 30+ who needs great players around him....
That means more good players, not less.

Manure and Arsenal have players for now and the future.
Where is our future?

3-4 years ago we had a nucleus of young top players like Alonso, Masch coming along. We have nothing now since the previous owners :censored:

us up

And this financial rules being implemented by Uefa sucks when we are miles behind. Unless we invest fast and heavily we are in deep :censored:

.

by **stmichael** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Penguins wrote:Manure and Arsenal have players for now and the future.
Where is our future?

We hear this about Arsenal every year and yet what do they actually win? Ok they play great football to watch but with the exception of last season we finished above them every season from 2006-2009. Wilshere is the obvious jewel in the crown and Ramsey is a great prospect but I don't see anyone else from their youth setup playing for them in the League.

As for United, apart from Hernandez there aren't really and other youngsters who are anything special. Gibson isn't good enough. Same for Macheda. The Da Silva brother's are still raw. Smalling has potential but £10m for him when he's played a handful of Premiership games is ludicrous.

Thank God our new owners here have said that they'll be looking at the long term when determining future transfer policy. We need younger players as you say and it looks like that's what we'll get which can only bode well.

by **Red H** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:26 pm

No-one will like this but if we want to break into the break back into the top three, the first thing we are going to require is patience.

Realistically, if we want to do it in a sustainable manner, then this is how I think we do it.

Sign player only 25 and under, no more than 2 or 3 per season (maybe less) to gointo the first team.They will all need to be world class, all "team" players, and all an improvement on what we already have. Produce 2 to 3 players though from the reserves to fil the gaps, every year, who can get into the first team squad. They either make it, or are sold on for a profit. Get a stadium that hold 60,000 to 70,000, that can pay for itself through the gate or sponsership within ten years, to provide continuity of resources, reduceing our reliance individual investment, or consistant high levels of success, or anything else that a bureaucrat can take away.

Short of that clone Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, and Reina.

by **mart** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:38 pm

Before we even think about spending big we need to change the manager. We need a good manager with a longterm plan on how to bring us back to the top. And he needs to control what we spend so we buy players that fit his vision of the team and how we should play. It does not matter if you think Roy was not given enough time or respect. He was never a longterm solution. Now that we have new owners and can begin rebuilding, and we need a manager capable of doing it.

That said I would, like i said this summer, make a new CB a priority. Preferably one with a bit of pace (Perhaps David Luiz from benfica). The greek is limited but is great at what he does. With a partner that cover up his weaknesses he could do a good enough job for us for a while. We also need a classic winger, preferably on the left side(turan apparently wants to come here. or if we got enough money perhaps mata). Imo this would be a good start to rebuilding the team.

Later on i'd go for a new (defensive) mid to replace poulsen/lucas, a new leftback and another backup striker. Imo n'gog is growing into a decent squad player and could act as backup for Torres but i'd like to get someone with more experience. Perhaps one of the many man city have on their bench.

We dont really need that much to compete as we have a good spine in the team. Imo the plans for a new stadium will also greatly influence how much we can do to get back up top in a short amount of time.

by **tubby** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:44 pm

We should sell Torres while he has some value, because he is wasted chasing Carrager's hoofs. Replace him with Kenwynne Jones, or Heskey, someone who can help implement Roysten's sit back and :censored:

it strategy.

Or sack Roy and get a manager in who can get a team playing a bit of football.

----

Ok that was copied from somewhere else but it's a fair point. On his day Torres is the best striker in the world but in a team forced to feed of hoofed balls he is a sulk, and rightly so. A new manager is a priority, I wish we would announce one this weekend but the reality is we will probably have to wait till the summer. If we do end up sacking Roy before then though id be quite happy with Kenny in charge and Sami as no 2. There should be no issues with the players respecting his presence and he surely can't do much worse that what we are seeing right now.

by **liverpoolusfan** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:47 pm

We need some wingers with some pace as well. Everything is so bottled up in the middle. Neither Maxi or Meireles have the ability or desire to challenge the opposing teams fullbacks in the last two games. What's the point in playing a 4-4-2 if there is no service on the wing to complement the two strikers?

I agree youth is the answer yet we have Pacheco just sitting on the bench, even when we do have young talent it's being wasted. Right now I rather take my chances with Pacheco on the wing than either Meireles or Maxi.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:56 pm

To get into the top three we need about 4 new players, f*ck off Poulsen and Konchesky and sack Roy. The latter needs to come first.

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