Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:41 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:They have had a very underwhelming start and are 4 points off top with only 11 goals scored in 9 games.
That's not great really.

Fecking Moriati :angry:

by **Big Niall** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:42 pm

I won't write off Benitez's chances of winning the league this year as just 6 months ago they were clearly the best team in Europe (bittch slapped Chelsea,Barca and Munich (who beat manure)) and won the treble.

by **maguskwt** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:30 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:They have had a very underwhelming start and are 4 points off top with only 11 goals scored in 9 games.
That's not great really.

Seriously though... why do we care so much?

I like Rafa and if he did well then I'll be happy... If he didn't do well, then WHO CARES?

I mean it seems like some of you are waiting for him to fail to somehow prove a point or two... for me Rafa is Rafa, he's won 2 la liga titles, 1 UEFA Cup, and with us 1 Champions League and 1 FA Cup. In my reckoning he is one of the top managers in world football and unless proven otherwise later this season, Roy is not in that group...

by **Zidane** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:43 pm

Inter overachieved last season, Mourinho's tactics made them get through a lot of teams in the CL.. rarely, if ever did they actually play anyone off the park. They didn't bitch slap anyone and they were lucky to win the CL imo, Mourinho had a lot to do with that, moreso than the players. Every one of our CL campaigns that were successful was pretty similiar. Anyway, I think Rafa can still do well but they didn't strengthen enough in the off season for me and are somewhat of a weaker team because of it. I think in the end he'll have them playing more efficiently and more effective than they are now, but they're doing OK atm too so I wouldn't worry too much about Inter. They'll end up with the league imo and I think they'll go deep in the CL, anyone who is expecting him to at the very least win what Mourinho won last season quite simply hates Rafa. If they don't win the league though Rafa will deserve some criticism, at the very least he needs to win 1 trophy this season.

by **jacdaniel** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:09 pm

Zidane wrote:Inter overachieved last season, Mourinho's tactics made them get through a lot of teams in the CL.. rarely, if ever did they actually play anyone off the park. They didn't bitch slap anyone and they were lucky to win the CL imo, Mourinho had a lot to do with that, moreso than the players. Every one of our CL campaigns that were successful was pretty similiar. Anyway, I think Rafa can still do well but they didn't strengthen enough in the off season for me and are somewhat of a weaker team because of it. I think in the end he'll have them playing more efficiently and more effective than they are now, but they're doing OK atm too so I wouldn't worry too much about Inter. They'll end up with the league imo and I think they'll go deep in the CL, anyone who is expecting him to at the very least win what Mourinho won last season quite simply hates Rafa. If they don't win the league though Rafa will deserve some criticism, at the very least he needs to win 1 trophy this season.

Good post.

When i look at the Inter team, i certainly don't think they're better or even close to Barca. And they don't have lots of great players like Madrid. They are a very strong side though.

Jose going to Madrid is a win-win situation. He has lots of money, great players and he only has to get past the last 16 in the CL to be better than the last few seasons.

Rafa is in a lose-lose situation. Even if he wins everything, it will be with Jose's team. If he doesn't win everything, he is not as good as Jose. (to some). If he doesn't win anything, he is a huge failure. (again, to some).

IMO, the Jose myth will continue with Real having a very good season. And Rafa will have success at Inter but some won't be happy even if he matches last years success.

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:27 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:They have had a very underwhelming start and are 4 points off top with only 11 goals scored in 9 games.
That's not great really.

Seriously though... why do we care so much?

I like Rafa and if he did well then I'll be happy... If he didn't do well, then WHO CARES?

I mean it seems like some of you are waiting for him to fail to somehow prove a point or two... for me Rafa is Rafa, he's won 2 la liga titles, 1 UEFA Cup, and with us 1 Champions League and 1 FA Cup. In my reckoning he is one of the top managers in world football and unless proven otherwise later this season, Roy is not in that group...

I am in the Rafa updates thread arent i ?

I made a comment about the fact that they havent made a great start as if we are talking about Rafa and how things are going for him this is a topic of subject.

Not sure where you got me wanting him to fail just because i pointed out his start hadnt been brilliant ?

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:31 pm

jacdaniel wrote:
Zidane wrote:Inter overachieved last season, Mourinho's tactics made them get through a lot of teams in the CL.. rarely, if ever did they actually play anyone off the park. They didn't bitch slap anyone and they were lucky to win the CL imo, Mourinho had a lot to do with that, moreso than the players. Every one of our CL campaigns that were successful was pretty similiar. Anyway, I think Rafa can still do well but they didn't strengthen enough in the off season for me and are somewhat of a weaker team because of it. I think in the end he'll have them playing more efficiently and more effective than they are now, but they're doing OK atm too so I wouldn't worry too much about Inter. They'll end up with the league imo and I think they'll go deep in the CL, anyone who is expecting him to at the very least win what Mourinho won last season quite simply hates Rafa. If they don't win the league though Rafa will deserve some criticism, at the very least he needs to win 1 trophy this season.

Good post.

When i look at the Inter team, i certainly don't think they're better or even close to Barca. And they don't have lots of great players like Madrid. They are a very strong side though.

Jose going to Madrid is a win-win situation. He has lots of money, great players and he only has to get past the last 16 in the CL to be better than the last few seasons.

Rafa is in a lose-lose situation. Even if he wins everything, it will be with Jose's team. If he doesn't win everything, he is not as good as Jose. (to some). If he doesn't win anything, he is a huge failure. (again, to some).

IMO, the Jose myth will continue with Real having a very good season. And Rafa will have success at Inter but some won't be happy even if he matches last years success.

Its very strange your post and a bit contradictory imo.
You state that inter are not in the same class as Barca - which i agree with. But then state that there is a myth surrounding Mourinho ?
If he managed to get past Barca, Chelsea and others last season with that team then that is some achievement. Especially given Inters recent poor record in europe.

I agree about Rafa being in a difficult position because how do you follow what Jose did ?
The thing with Real is, they consistently spend money and numerous managers have struggled. Yet your making out that its an easy job by the sounds of it.
Your forgetting his rival for the league is Barcelona who are as strong as ever.

by **worcester_red** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:39 pm

jacdaniel wrote:
Zidane wrote:Inter overachieved last season, Mourinho's tactics made them get through a lot of teams in the CL.. rarely, if ever did they actually play anyone off the park. They didn't bitch slap anyone and they were lucky to win the CL imo, Mourinho had a lot to do with that, moreso than the players. Every one of our CL campaigns that were successful was pretty similiar. Anyway, I think Rafa can still do well but they didn't strengthen enough in the off season for me and are somewhat of a weaker team because of it. I think in the end he'll have them playing more efficiently and more effective than they are now, but they're doing OK atm too so I wouldn't worry too much about Inter. They'll end up with the league imo and I think they'll go deep in the CL, anyone who is expecting him to at the very least win what Mourinho won last season quite simply hates Rafa. If they don't win the league though Rafa will deserve some criticism, at the very least he needs to win 1 trophy this season.

Good post.

When i look at the Inter team, i certainly don't think they're better or even close to Barca. And they don't have lots of great players like Madrid. They are a very strong side though.

Jose going to Madrid is a win-win situation. He has lots of money, great players and he only has to get past the last 16 in the CL to be better than the last few seasons.

Rafa is in a lose-lose situation. Even if he wins everything, it will be with Jose's team. If he doesn't win everything, he is not as good as Jose. (to some). If he doesn't win anything, he is a huge failure. (again, to some).

IMO, the Jose myth will continue with Real having a very good season. And Rafa will have success at Inter but some won't be happy even if he matches last years success.

well that is Rafa's fault entirely but I suppose he'll have plenty more opportunities to whinge and whine about it.

Personally i think Rafa will have an ok season but nothing to special and he'll probably be sacked at the end of the season.

by **rocky29** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:05 pm

worcester_red wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:
Zidane wrote:Inter overachieved last season, Mourinho's tactics made them get through a lot of teams in the CL.. rarely, if ever did they actually play anyone off the park. They didn't bitch slap anyone and they were lucky to win the CL imo, Mourinho had a lot to do with that, moreso than the players. Every one of our CL campaigns that were successful was pretty similiar. Anyway, I think Rafa can still do well but they didn't strengthen enough in the off season for me and are somewhat of a weaker team because of it. I think in the end he'll have them playing more efficiently and more effective than they are now, but they're doing OK atm too so I wouldn't worry too much about Inter. They'll end up with the league imo and I think they'll go deep in the CL, anyone who is expecting him to at the very least win what Mourinho won last season quite simply hates Rafa. If they don't win the league though Rafa will deserve some criticism, at the very least he needs to win 1 trophy this season.

Good post.

When i look at the Inter team, i certainly don't think they're better or even close to Barca. And they don't have lots of great players like Madrid. They are a very strong side though.

Jose going to Madrid is a win-win situation. He has lots of money, great players and he only has to get past the last 16 in the CL to be better than the last few seasons.

Rafa is in a lose-lose situation. Even if he wins everything, it will be with Jose's team. If he doesn't win everything, he is not as good as Jose. (to some). If he doesn't win anything, he is a huge failure. (again, to some).

IMO, the Jose myth will continue with Real having a very good season. And Rafa will have success at Inter but some won't be happy even if he matches last years success.

well that is Rafa's fault entirely but I suppose he'll have plenty more opportunities to whinge and whine about it.

Personally i think Rafa will have an ok season but nothing to special and he'll probably be sacked at the end of the season.

i disagree no offence but if he doesnt win the league with the players his got there then im sorry he aint good enough. No-one really expects him to win the treble again.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:13 pm

Very early days yet in this tenure of Benitez at Inter Milan .... I should think there will be a few twists and turns before the season ends,
but nevertheless I think if he is allowed to add a few additions to an already talented squad then he will succeed in building a formidable team .. I have been quietly impressed with the style of football Inter now play and with Rafa securing his class players ie Schneider on long contracts he is going about his business in an assured manner ....anyway its not every day they will be up against the sheer brilliance of Bale
so all the posters now crowing need to bite their tongue a mite .... well at least see how the season pans out before predicting his demise ..... funny old game this football lark

by **rocky29** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:31 pm

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Very early days yet in this tenure of Benitez at Inter Milan .... I should think there will be a few twists and turns before the season ends,
but nevertheless I think if he is allowed to add a few additions to an already talented squad then he will succeed in building a formidable team .. I have been quietly impressed with the style of football Inter now play and with Rafa securing his class players ie Schneider on long contracts he is going about his business in an assured manner ....anyway its not every day they will be up against the sheer brilliance of Bale
so all the posters now crowing need to bite their tongue a mite .... well at least see how the season pans out before predicting his demise ..... funny old game this football lark

eto schneider milito caesar they have got a helluva lot of quality right thru. How many of our players would get in there side. Maybe 3 or 4 at most

by **maguskwt** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:13 am

Ben Patrick wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:They have had a very underwhelming start and are 4 points off top with only 11 goals scored in 9 games.
That's not great really.

Seriously though... why do we care so much?

I like Rafa and if he did well then I'll be happy... If he didn't do well, then WHO CARES?

I mean it seems like some of you are waiting for him to fail to somehow prove a point or two... for me Rafa is Rafa, he's won 2 la liga titles, 1 UEFA Cup, and with us 1 Champions League and 1 FA Cup. In my reckoning he is one of the top managers in world football and unless proven otherwise later this season, Roy is not in that group...

I am in the Rafa updates thread arent i ?

I made a comment about the fact that they havent made a great start as if we are talking about Rafa and how things are going for him this is a topic of subject.

Not sure where you got me wanting him to fail just because i pointed out his start hadnt been brilliant ?

yeah... whatever mate... stick around... I'll get my coat... :;):

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:20 am

Good reply that

Think that meant that you knew you had called it wrong about me wanting him to fail :nod

by **dawson99** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:40 pm

Good luck against Brescia

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:30 pm

Article by author of Calcio: The History of Italian Football.

At the start of the season, Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson was asked about the implications of Rafael Benitez replacing the Real Madrid-bound Jose Mourinho at Inter Milan.
"They favour Madrid, no doubt about that," was the characteristically blunt response from Ferguson.
While the lingering animosity between Ferguson and his former Liverpool sparring partner Benitez made his assessment predictable, the Scot's view reflected the general consensus that Madrid were getting the better deal and that all-conquering Inter would be weakened under the stewardship of a coach whose reputation nose-dived during a dismal final season at Anfield.
Three months into Benitez's tenure at the Italian and European champions and opinions are starting to change. Slowly but surely, the Spaniard is winning over the hearts and minds of fans, pundits and the all-important Italian press, who fell out so dramatically with Mourinho.
A solid if unspectacular start to the Serie A season - Inter are second, four points behind surprise leaders Lazio - has been overshadowed by a confident opening to the defence of their Champions League title, which resumes against Tottenham at White Hart Lane on Tuesday night.

A 2-2 draw at FC Twente was followed by a 4-0 thrashing of Werder Bremen and a first-half demolition of Spurs at the San Siro, during which Inter played with a flair and swagger rarely seen under Mourinho.

Although Gareth Bale's stunning hat-trick for the north Londoners narrowed the scoreline to 4-3, it did little to alter the impression that the holders would take some beating in this season's competition.
"In some ways their football is even better than last season," said John Foot, author of Calcio: The History of Italian Football. "It's less cagey, less Catenaccio-esque than Mourinho would play.
"The first half hour against Tottenham was pretty expansive football and the team can almost play with its eyes closed now. It's already clear that they are going to be in contention for all these trophies right to the end of the season."
Italian football analyst Tor-Kristian Karlsen says Benitez's Inter are less liable to sit back and soak up pressure than they were under Mourinho during the 2009-10 campaign.
"The team keep the ball more under Benitez and the defensive line is usually pushed higher up the pitch," added Karlsen, a well-travelled scout and regular columnist for Calcio Italia magazine.
"Mourinho was more focused on defence and relied more on counter-attacks and the magic of individual players than the collective, rehearsed moves favoured by the Spaniard."

By any measure, Benitez had a hard act to follow. Mourinho's achievement of winning an unprecedented Treble of Italian league, cup and Champions League ensured any successor was almost certainly doomed to a degree of failure.
Whereas Serie A rivals AC Milan and Juventus spent heavily to enhance their squads for the 2010-11 season, Inter chose not to add to their resources, instead offloading the volatile but talented striker Mario Balotelli to Manchester City.
Benitez has kept faith with the 4-2-3-1 formation preferred by his Portuguese predecessor, but the subtle adjustments he has made to the side are reaping rewards.
The Spaniard's main alteration has been to end Samuel Eto'o's period of exile on the right wing and restore him to his favoured role as a central striker. The former Barcelona frontman has responded with a blistering start to the season, scoring 13 goals in 12 games.

Benitez has also given youth a chance, with 18-year-old Brazilian Coutinho and 22-year-old Jonathan Biabiany of France both returning from loan spells to force their way into the side. The duo were outstanding in the victory over Spurs, adding flair and dynamism to Inter's attacking play.
"I think Rafa is giving more players a chance," Foot commented. "All Mourinho teams have a backbone of the older guard. It's nice to see Rafa experimenting a little bit more. There's a lot of pressure on Wesley Sneijder to create everything but they need someone else. Coutinho looks to have that spark about him."
Mourinho's two-year tenure at Inter was characterised by extraordinary success on the field but plenty of ill-feeling off it. The former Chelsea and Porto boss had countless fallouts with journalists and other managers, his polemical behaviour prompting Catania director of football Pietro Lo Monaco to claim he "deserves a smack in the mouth".
In March, Mourinho declared he was unhappy in Italian football "because I don't like it and it doesn't like me." He expressed a yearning for a return to the Premier League, where his charisma and arrogance drew nostalgic comparisons with legendary Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough.
In contrast, Benitez's reserved character and guarded discourse with the press seemed to irk fans and journalists in England, but it makes him a much better fit for the old-fashioned ways of Italian football, according to Karlsen.
"Unsurprisingly his entry has been a lot less controversial than Mourinho's. Whereas the Portuguese set his own agenda from day one, Benitez has been somewhat more diplomatic, on the whole showing respect to fellow coaches and the football environment. This is important to Italians who value their own school of thinking and traditions," Karlsen reflected.
Benitez is a much better trainer than a finder of players. Others might have a better eye for a player, but they wouldn't know how to train them like Rafa Benitez does

Benitez biographer Paco Lloret
"I don't think Benitez got the credit he deserved in England. Partly because he didn't offer the sound bites and easy conclusions that make you a tabloid favourite, but also because his thinking and ideas on football may have been too prudent and unsexy to win over the ever so demanding supporters.
"It's interesting to see how even the Liverpool supporters are spilt when it comes to Rafa. It's either love or hate, genius or idiot. I can't remember a manager or even a player stirring up the same mixed emotions."
One area in which Benitez divides opinion is his dealings in the transfer market. Pundits such as former Reds defender Alan Hansen have lambasted the Spaniard over big-money flops like Robbie Keane, Alberto Aquilani and Andrea Dossena, while his successor in the Anfield hot-seat Roy Hodgson last week bemoaned the number of "expensive failures" at the club.
Others such as respected writer and blogger Paul Tomkins has argued that Benitez has been unfairly maligned and prefer to highlight success stories like Pepe Reina, Fernando Torres and Javier Mascherano.
Wherever the truth lies, Benitez is unlikely to play such a central role in buying players at Inter, where sporting director Marco Branca and owner Massimo Moratti have the final say in new signings.
According to Paco Lloret, Benitez's biographer and close friend, this system will suit the Spaniard, as it more closely resembles that which was in place during his time at Valencia, where he won two Spanish league titles and a Uefa Cup.
"Benitez is a much better trainer than a finder of players," Lloret stated. "He knows how to design systems and work with a team. Others might have a better eye for a player, but they wouldn't know how to train them like Rafa Benitez does.

Benitez looks on in frustration as Liverpool lose at White Hart Lane
"Benitez likes working behind closed doors. Everything which surrounds a club, like the media, Benitez knows it's important but he doesn't see it as a priority."
In returning to White Hart Lane on Tuesday night, Benitez is revisiting the ground where his Liverpool tenure began to unravel in August 2009.
Having taken Manchester United right to the wire in the 2008-09 season, Liverpool went into the following campaign with high hopes of ending their 20-year wait for the title, only to suffer a morale-shattering 2-1 defeat to Spurs on the opening day.
Early exits from the Champions League and both domestic cups followed and a seventh-place Premier League finish in May brought a sorry end to a regime that had begun with an stunning European Cup triumph over AC Milan in 2005.
And while many fans directed their ire at detested former American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett, there is little doubt that Benitez departed Anfield with his status considerably diminished.
"Right now Rafa faces a challenge to restore his reputation because his departure from Liverpool wasn't good," Lloret continued. "He's made a good start but there's a long way to go."

A decent unbiased viewpoint delivered with no prejudice .......

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Rafa benitez appreciation thread - Part 2

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