Liverpool FC Forum

Owzat wrote:But try and ignore ER's twa'tish remark, most people who come out with such responses and zilch to back it up don't have the capacity to. Should be a straight red card offence as it doesn't even offer an attempt to back up what is doubtless a breach of forum rules but mods don't seem to bother with. Must be something about the place he comes from, he's not the only one

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:......the simplified answer would be" its not "

What, not evolving  No I can't have that, there are numerous changes which Roy has made, and whether or not you agree with all of them (I don't) I think it is undeniable that they exist.

They are in no particular order of obviousness or importance:

1. We now defend set-pieces man to man as opposed to zonally.

2. We don't press the ball anywhere near so fiercly further up the pitch. We are prepared to sit and wait on teams coming to us.

3. Roy seems to be of the opinion that if Ryan Babel is going to make it at Liverpool, it will be as a centre forward.

4. It seems that Roy thinks Daniel Agger is a better left back than either Insua or Aurelio.

5. We are prepared to play 4-4-2 away from home, and the manager also expects the central midfielders to get up and down as well.

6. The manager seems more inclined toi give youth a shot, be it Kelly or Pacheco.

Not a whole raft of changes, but one or two significant ones nontheless. This is especially so when you consider how brief has been Roys tenure.

bavlondon wrote:In the games so far we don't seem to be getting as much possession as before. Slightly worried but will give it a few more games before commenting more on that.

bigmick wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:......the simplified answer would be" its not "

What, not evolving  No I can't have that, there are numerous changes which Roy has made, and whether or not you agree with all of them (I don't) I think it is undeniable that they exist.

They are in no particular order of obviousness or importance:

1. We now defend set-pieces man to man as opposed to zonally.

2. We don't press the ball anywhere near so fiercly further up the pitch. We are prepared to sit and wait on teams coming to us.

3. Roy seems to be of the opinion that if Ryan Babel is going to make it at Liverpool, it will be as a centre forward.

4. It seems that Roy thinks Daniel Agger is a better left back than either Insua or Aurelio.

5. We are prepared to play 4-4-2 away from home, and the manager also expects the central midfielders to get up and down as well.

6. The manager seems more inclined toi give youth a shot, be it Kelly or Pacheco.

Not a whole raft of changes, but one or two significant ones nontheless. This is especially so when you consider how brief has been Roys tenure.

Perhaps Mick if point 2 had been implemented then we would not have been so open to Man City's scything  attacks from their wingers
Point 3 ...It would certainly help his cause if Ryan Babel had any position he was adept in 
Point 4 ...Agger is a central defender and last season I seem to recall you personally fronting  the "Managers should not play players out of their original position club "
Point 5 ...we our prepared to play 4-4-2 away badly and with little effect ,as opposed to the defensive solitary striker role we utilise at Anfield ...
Point 6..... he also seems to warrant littering our team with journeymen who have already had their best years ,whilst the Young stars sit on the sidelines waiting for an all too brief cameo
if he isn't selling them that is ....

The truth Mick is there has been little real change apart from the possession we our all to readily conceding in worrying measure
So no mate we don't concur just yet  ......

bigmick wrote:Point 2 and the "scything attacks from their wingers" wasn't because we were pressing the ball further up, it was because we were outnumbered in midfield mostly. As neither Torres nor N'Gog were dropping in, and both Kuyt and Jovanovic were completely inneffective, their fullbacks were also able to bomb on (particularly Micah Richards who was MOM for me). Also Johnson in particular for them is IMHo a very good player. I'm not saying there wasn't any "scything", only that the cause was different.

3. I tend to agree with you on this as I suspect he isn't good enough wherever we play him. I do though agree with the manager that if he IS ever going to make it, it will be as a centre forward. As it goes, on all of the occasions he's playued recently he's not been a complete disaster, which is a step in the right direction for him.

4. Whenever people write that "they seem to remember" me typing something, they are almost always wrong. I actually adviocated playing Agger there some time ago, mainly because Aurelio was injured and I didn't rate Insua that highly. I don't think Agger is the answer there, he's better at centre half, but Hodgson seems more prone to play him at left back than Benitez was. Whether he's right or wrong is another debate.

5. The 4-4-2 with N'Gog/Torres completely disfunctional aside from one pattern of play dummy and give, Kuyt and Jovanovic awful, Lucas invisable and man City being quite good was a disaster. It was though to some extent forced upon the manager by Masherano's antics, although I bet he wishes now that he'd played Poulsen and pushed Gerrard on.

6. I disagree that we have the journeymen, apart from Jovanovic who I don't rate overly. The others, the Maxi Rodriguez's of this world were left behind for him to try and make something of. I don't hold out much hope for them or him on that score. On the question of Poulsen (if that's who you meant), I'm extremely confident you will change your mind.

I return a couple of JD's wiser .... Firstly on the subject of point 2 we were in all actuality outnumbered in midfield because we didn't compress the play high enough up the field ...we invited attack upon attack which a subsequent high line would have avoided
Why we played 4-4-2 Mick I will forever be in the dark on the managers thinking there (I agree however with Richards being immense )
Last Season apart from Birmingham and their position in the table your biggest questioning of Benitez's policies was his rotation and playing players out of their original positions ....

Another point is acquisition of Poulson which I have already stated repeatedly was a shrewd move on Hodgsons part and I likened his eventual role to the one Didi used to fill so expertly in breaking up the oppositions play, and distributing the ball intelligently thus nullifying the opponents threat

Finally on the subject of Benitez mate I thing posters if they truly want a happy medium to exist and people and fans to start debating the pros and cons of football ....(and this goes for both sides of the divide ) then they should post on what is relevant and not what is in the past ...Rafa has left and the digs only serve to let the flame wars resume ..... We all want to talk football Mick and put ourselves and our support firmly behind the Manager ,but this is becoming increasingly more difficult when people deliberately make mention to Rafa in the most disparaging terms ................ Would you agree 

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Point 6..... he also seems to warrant littering our team with journeymen who have already had their best years ,whilst the Young stars sit on the sidelines waiting for an all too brief cameo
if he isn't selling them that is ....

You mean Lucas being on the bench dont you ? 

"young stars" ... hahahahaha !

aCe' wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:Point 6..... he also seems to warrant littering our team with journeymen who have already had their best years ,whilst the Young stars sit on the sidelines waiting for an all too brief cameo
if he isn't selling them that is ....

You mean Lucas being on the bench dont you ? 

"young stars" ... hahahahaha !

Yeah and like all these young stars got a look in when Rafa was here  how ironic.

In and Out wrote:Another thing that is refreshing to see IMO with regards to Roy is his passion from the touchline. I know to many it means a lot if our players play with heart and convinction like Kuyt, Lucas and Mascha etc. But I also think it could be equally important collectively if the manager exhibits the same kind of passion from the touchline. Better still, I get the impression Roy gives the old 'hair dryer' treatment at half time (like most old skool managers) and reads them the riot act. I think with these kind of motivational skills he'll be able to get that extra bit more out of the players, as this will also go hand in hand with the fact he seems like an approachable bloke for the players to talk to.

I am quite optimistic under the circumstances but there is a long way to go I think before he gets the team to 'gel' properly, in the long run though I think it will be worth it.

Watcing thursdays match you could see Roy's ire blatantly. You just knew he wa gonna kick their at half time hence, the 2nd half improment. touche!