Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:52 pm

Well his goalscoring record is pretty good at his old club - 52 goals in 116 games but mainly playing as a left sided forward as opposed to central striker .

by **maguskwt** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:38 pm

My freaking local cable tv doesn't show Europa cup games... Is gerrard playing as a CM? I think for the good of the team gerrard should play as a CM and not a AM. He needs to play as the distributor, controlling the game from the middle somewhat like Alonso.

by **jacdaniel** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:44 pm

Gerrard doesn't always have the discipline to play CM. he tends to always go for a superb through ball instead of the simpler pass.

Alonso always came back to take the ball off the defenders and distribute it calmly. This avoided lots of long balls and allowed us to control games.

Stevie has always been a bit of a mystery to managers cos he is brilliant... but its hard to know were to play him

by **stmichael** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:52 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Gerrard doesn't always have the discipline to play CM. he tends to always go for a superb through ball instead of the simpler pass.

Alonso always came back to take the ball off the defenders and distribute it calmly. This avoided lots of long balls and allowed us to control games.

Stevie has always been a bit of a mystery to managers cos he is brilliant... but its hard to know were to play him

Gerrard will still come back to pick the ball off the back four as Alonso did. As far as I'm concerned, anything that stops Carragher from repeatedly hoofing the ball aimlessly long all the time is a good thing.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:34 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Gerrard doesn't always have the discipline to play CM. he tends to always go for a superb through ball instead of the simpler pass.

Alonso always came back to take the ball off the defenders and distribute it calmly. This avoided lots of long balls and allowed us to control games.

Stevie has always been a bit of a mystery to managers cos he is brilliant... but its hard to know were to play him

Well, I don't buy that to be honest. True there are situations where he was too impatient because the team wasn't performing, and in those situations he has the tendency to pick up the team or game by the scruff of the neck which might not always turn out to be desireable. But we have to know that in his early career he started out as a CM for us as well as England. Back then I seem to remember he was distributing passes left right and center beautifully. There was a period where if Gerrard plays for England they never lost a game, The truth is that at the moment if Gerrard doesn't play in the middle our flow of the game will be terrible as witnessed last season. To the point that there is no flow at all. I'm sure Gerrard is happier playing as AM, because then he can just let go and be a full force to reckon with by the opposition. But if he thinks about it, even if he plays AM with the current set up he will not get the ball as frequently as he did when Alonso was here. In terms of his career it also makes more sense to revert back to a CM playmaking/distributor role and let the younger players do the huffing and puffing. Time to stop being a box to box midfielder and be distributing playmaker. And he is more than qualified in that role. His passing and vision is up there with the best. If Roy had a quiet word with him and explains the implications, I'm sure he will be more than happy to oblige.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:52 pm

maguskwt wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:Gerrard doesn't always have the discipline to play CM. he tends to always go for a superb through ball instead of the simpler pass.

Alonso always came back to take the ball off the defenders and distribute it calmly. This avoided lots of long balls and allowed us to control games.

Stevie has always been a bit of a mystery to managers cos he is brilliant... but its hard to know were to play him

Well, I don't buy that to be honest. True there are situations where he was too impatient because the team wasn't performing, and in those situations he has the tendency to pick up the team or game by the scruff of the neck which might not always turn out to be desireable. But we have to know that in his early career he started out as a CM for us as well as England. Back then I seem to remember he was distributing passes left right and center beautifully. There was a period where if Gerrard plays for England they never lost a game, The truth is that at the moment if Gerrard doesn't play in the middle our flow of the game will be terrible as witnessed last season. To the point that there is no flow at all. I'm sure Gerrard is happier playing as AM, because then he can just let go and be a full force to reckon with by the opposition. But if he thinks about it, even if he plays AM with the current set up he will not get the ball as frequently as he did when Alonso was here. In terms of his career it also makes more sense to revert back to a CM playmaking/distributor role and let the younger players do the huffing and puffing. Time to stop being a box to box midfielder and be distributing playmaker. And he is more than qualified in that role. His passing and vision is up there with the best. If Roy had a quiet word with him and explains the implications, I'm sure he will be more than happy to oblige.

I'm not bothered about Gerrard's misplaced passes. Let's be honest the passes he misplaces are adventurous passes that don't make the destination. Not the short simple passes, easily read, we see the likes of Lucas give away that become a liability.

And what some seem to conveniently forget is world class passes that Gerrard can produce to open up a defence. In my opinion his passing pro's FAR outweigh his cons.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:24 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:I'm not bothered about Gerrard's misplaced passes. Let's be honest the passes he misplaces are adventurous passes that don't make the destination. Not the short simple passes, easily read, we see the likes of Lucas give away that become a liability.

As a rule I don't usually post opta stats
but I will include these little gems for the habitually blind

Most strikes on goal Wayne Rooney 92
most passes competed successfully Lucas Leiva 1200
most Tackles Hendry Thomas (Wigan) 105
Most Dribbles & Runs Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan) 126
Most Crosses Andy Reid (Sunderland) 213
Most Offsides Jermain Defoe (Tottenham) 36
Most Fouls Kevin Davies (Bolton) 67
Team with most fouls Hull 332
Team with most shots Chelsea 370

It might just be me being seriously naive here .... but wouldn't those stats suggest he played a significant role last season ...
as for Gerrard I agree with what you said ...but ffs cut Lucas some slack the lad performed admirably while his more illustrious compatriots were acting with disgraceful petulance ..........

by **andy_g** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:32 pm

and now the avalanche of "yeah, but 5 yard backward passes don't count...."

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:41 pm

andy_g wrote:and now the avalanche of "yeah, but 5 yard backward passes don't count...."

Whose your money on ?

by **supersub** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:12 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:I'm not bothered about Gerrard's misplaced passes. Let's be honest the passes he misplaces are adventurous passes that don't make the destination.

So it's you that jumps up and down a few rows in front of me, with your silky scarves tied to your wrists, everytime SG fu.cks up a pass and yelps "I love you Stevie G" :laugh:

I thought it was Pete Price

by **In and Out** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:18 pm

re Lucas: Yeah but 5 yard passes and backward passes do not count :laugh:

by **red till i die!!** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:21 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:I'm not bothered about Gerrard's misplaced passes. Let's be honest the passes he misplaces are adventurous passes that don't make the destination. Not the short simple passes, easily read, we see the likes of Lucas give away that become a liability.

As a rule I don't usually post opta stats
but I will include these little gems for the habitually blind

Most strikes on goal Wayne Rooney 92
most passes competed successfully Lucas Leiva 1200
most Tackles Hendry Thomas (Wigan) 105
Most Dribbles & Runs Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan) 126
Most Crosses Andy Reid (Sunderland) 213
Most Offsides Jermain Defoe (Tottenham) 36
Most Fouls Kevin Davies (Bolton) 67
Team with most fouls Hull 332
Team with most shots Chelsea 370

It might just be me being seriously naive here .... but wouldn't those stats suggest he played a significant role last season ...
as for Gerrard I agree with what you said ...but ffs cut Lucas some slack the lad performed admirably while his more illustrious compatriots were acting with disgraceful petulance ..........

those stats dont mean a lot and arent a true reflection on his game.
the 5 yard passes are.
at least 1000 of them are sideways and backwards.
he has to be one of the most frustrating players we had in a long time,he is sluggish,a constant fouler and gives the ball away cheaply way too often.
i dont think roy is suddenly going to turn this lad into the great player many on here reckon he is.

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:43 am

Statistics can be used to justify anything
Ask politicians

by **andy_g** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:34 am

i'm not lucas' biggest fan, i think he's ok nothing more. but i do get tired of this 5 yard backward and sideways pass myth that every dicussion about him boils down to. so here's a simple excercise that might finish this tiresome debate once and for all.
step 1. go to http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards
step 2. click on the 'create a chalkboard now' link
step 3. from the menus select 2009/2010 then liverpool
step 4. select any match you like in which lucas played, then select lucas as the player
step 5. select passes as the stat you'd like to see and... voila!
step 6. compare the number of forward passes to the number of sideways and backwards ones (feel free to check up on free kicks won and conceded, tackles and other stuff too)
step 7. write post in the lucas leiva thread on newkit saying 'i'm terribly sorry everyone, it seems i was mistaken'

i know this just boils down to more stats and doesn't give us a true reflection of his overall footballing contribution but it might help to stop one of the most boring and ill informed arguments of the last couple of seasons.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:45 am

It quite simple to say what the problem was with Lucas last season and it is he isn't Alonso and people compare him instead of looking at him in his own right

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