Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:36 pm

John Barnes' Granny wrote:The zonal marking has to go as Carragher and Hyppia can't handle it.

yeah, carra's not the sharpest knife in the drawer at the best of times is he?

on a serious note. i play rugby and quite often in the backs we are asked to play a zonal defence. it's so much more complecated and unecessary than simple man to man marking.

by **laza** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:36 pm

I think it just as much point as claiming GH wouldnt have lost in Greece
Also if GH defense was so well organised how come we were leaking so many goals at Anfield last year.
Why i certainly having some grave doubts over zonal defense is going to work or not, i also knew when Rafa came in we would get pain before gain.
I also think the defense needs to be strengthed in CD department despite Carra best efforts we need a recognised and hopefully fast CD in January window and then maybe we can start thinking about zonal defence.

by **JBG** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:04 pm

laza wrote:i also knew when Rafa came in we would get pain before gain.

I think you have hit the nail on the ol' head there Laza.

by **Redtribe** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:31 pm

I would like to know more about the zonal idea.
It in theory sounds quite simple as you each have youre own zone to defend.
This is what was used when i played basketball and i guess its similar to what Rafa is trying to use!
I think that the players shoud adapt ok, it may take time and these errors may cost us points, but these are the managers beleifs and untill he is happy with the way his team plays then he wont be getting the full potential out of them!
I dont think scrapping the his ideas because some players are finding hard to grasp is the answer as it will end up limiting the team!
If it comes to it and the players really cant get the hang of it then maybe that is the time to say good bye and bring in more competent players!

by **Live4pool** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:50 pm

laza wrote:I think it just as much point as claiming GH wouldnt have lost in Greece
Also if GH defense was so well organised how come we were leaking so many goals at Anfield last year.
Why i certainly having some grave doubts over zonal defense is going to work or not, i also knew when Rafa came in we would get pain before gain.
I also think the defense needs to be strengthed in CD department despite Carra best efforts we need a recognised and hopefully fast CD in January window and then maybe we can start thinking about zonal defence.

Yes, GH's team might not have conceded those set-piece goals against Manures and Olympiakos, neither would we have scored.

GH's team would have played ugly but safe football with 10 players camped in our own half.

Benitez's tactics are more attack orientated even against technically-superior teams. It could be becos of this that we exposed our defensive frailty.

Coming from Valencia which has a strong defensive record, Benitez should be exasperated. Would he be desperate enough to switch back to ultra-defensive tactics just to get some results ? I think he should for difficult away ties.

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:03 pm

I started a zonal thread abit ago and nobody got involved really which probably is an indication that knowledge about it is quite limited. I have to say , I'm no expert myself, as I said in my post we had real difficulty with it ourselves. Despite working on it at length (it was quite a good standard) we couldn't really get it sorted.
The theory, if anyone's interested is that you mark space rather than players and defend two or three yards deeper than you would normally. As johnny opposition approches dead-ball you advance en-masse and the guy who's nearest to ball flight attacks it and attempts to head it out in roughly the direction it came from. The point being, any attacker who chooses to stand with you is likely to be offside when you all advance, anyone who doesn't and chooses to head it has to deal with a hairy-arsed cente-half arriving at a rate of knots at roughly the same time as the ball. It can also be combined with a partial man-marking system whereby stand-off runners are picked up by midfield players/full-backs and blocked off to stop them getting a clear run at the ball. The system we used, which from what Ronnie Whelan was saying last night was the same as liverpool used to use, was man-marking but a front post zonal header. A bit boring I know but thata about the size of it as I remember.

by **A.B.** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:44 pm

There is only a low amount of hope and optimism fans can have, every time we lose my level of hope goes down. I've been optimistic all season, but the more optimistic I am the more frustrated I get when we lose.

When we lose without putting up a fight, that sickens me and I have to look forward to the next game in order to see the club I love most bounce back. A week is a long time to wait to see something like that happens, the media makes it a year with all the headlines about Manchester United, even Arsenal are not in the headlines as much as the Mancs.

Benitez is an intelligent manager, and I am willing to wait to see us play at the best but the question that comes to mind is will it be too late for us to bounce back and challenge the title. Losing every other week certainly won't get us in the third spot. Inconsistancy still continues in this club, last year it was horrible home records and this year its the opposite. I don't know what to think anymore.

by **Live4pool** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:50 pm

AB, would you a player like Ronnie or Henry transform the current fortune of Liverpool ?

by **A.B.** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:54 pm

Rephrase that. Are you saying that if Rooney or Henry played for us then we would be good? No, football is not revolved around one or two players.

by **Live4pool** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:02 pm

No, I was hoping you would say yes.
And then I would add that in order to have them, we need MONEY.

Very honestly, we are held back by this lack of funds to compete for the best. The transfer fees have become extremely obscene but that's how modern football business goes.

Isn't it a sickening feeling to know that Manure is almost on its way to getting an early return on a 30mil investment ?

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:02 pm

A.B mate it's already too late for us "to bounce back and challenge the title". We're not even in the hunt. There, accept it mate. That's not to say we won't have good periods/matches but we are not even possible champions this year, we never were. The important thing is for Rafa to build a foundation to challenge next year, with a view to winning the thing in one of the two years after that. It's not easy y'know. Takes time.

by **parchpea** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:05 pm

I hate to say it, but if we had van nistelrooy or rooney last night, or henry and bergkamp we would have got something from the game. If not a victory. The fact is that we dont have players of that class right now. Cisse or Baros dont compare to these guys. It sucks but its true. :down:

by **Live4pool** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:06 pm

A.B. wrote:Rephrase that. Are you saying that if Rooney or Henry played for us then we would be good? No, football is not revolved around one or two players.

AB, come to think of it, actually our last season revolved around Steven and Owen

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:12 pm

Don't think many would didagree with you there mate. It would be easier if it were the case that potentially one of our lads could come through. Doesn't seem likely to me at the mo'. One last thing, I'm always banging on about giving people time etc cos I think thats the best way. To totally contradict myself, my prediction is that Cisse will not do the buisness for us and is grossly overpriced at 14 million. I think he's not up to it. 'Course, when he bangs in 20 goals this season you can all laugh at me. That's my opinion though. I know three goals is not a bad return, he hasn't played too badly either but for 14 million, which represents a massive investment for a club in our financial position, I'd want more for my money. A nice parting signing from GH. Merci beaucoup.

by **taff** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:18 pm

Again its a timke thing and the players working and understanding each other.

St Mike on the rugby thing about zonal defence it can work really good but you have to have great communicators who organise and Hypia is the only one who stands out there maybe the keeper as he will have more vision of the attack but I dont think thats Dudeks strong point to be honest.

Any lack of communication and you get punished but get it right and its better than man to man as its hard to pick up on an individual basis

The basic truth is we need time and experience as a team to implement the new system were in no mans land at the moment stuck between two philosiphies

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