Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:57 am

And on the subject of two DMs it seems 3 out of the four WC semi finalists employ 2 DMs . Think the one thing missing within those stats from Owzat is - How many games did Torres and Gerrard miss of those games we lost or drew - IMO that's where are downfall was last season, not having good enough back up - mainly for Torres .

by **Fauxy** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:02 am

Yes but the DM's in the world cup finals happen to be world class players that are capable of passing the ball FORWARDS rather than side to side.

Lucas and Masch cant do that.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:11 am

And in the WC the teams have world class strikers to play the ball forward to and are making the runs - without Torres we didn't have that .

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:11 am

Yes I don't really go for this "but other people do it as well" argument myself. I'm not necessarily saying I don't like the formation (I don't in the Premiership, which isn't the World Cup by any stretch of the imagination but anyway), what I am saying is that the Lucas/Masherano axis was a disaster. I thought it would be a disaster before we did it, I knew it was a disaster oce I'd seen it, and I had it confirmed as being a disaster on the mnay occasions I saw it afterwards.

It was/is/and shall remain absolutely staggering to me that we went through nearly all of last season trying to make such a dysfunctional pairing work. We can if you like add in stats which include how many times we wore our away strip, or how many times Gerrard ruffled his hair with gel before he came through the tunnel, but can't help think it is ove-complicating things. The Lucas/Masherano axis was a disaster, and if we're honest every single one of us knows it.

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:13 am

Benny The Noon wrote:And in the WC the teams have world class strikers to play the ball forward to and are making the runs - without Torres we didn't have that .

That's a very good point. It's a little bit like when you have Peter Crouch up front and you knock long balls to him, he wins the headers. The trick is though, if he isn't playing the following week and you have Jermaine Defoe up there, you don't knock the ball into the same places at the same hieght. If you do, you'll find that he doesn't win the headers.

Football is quite a simple game really when push comes to shove.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:21 am

So is a stat asking to see if Torres was playing or not a good indicator then- I got a sneaky feeling a lot if those defeats were without Torres . There is also the question of who would of played instead of either of them ? But of course that's last season and there was a lot more to blame than Lucas and Masher ( who quite surprisingly seemed to have been in our best player if last season category ) . If both players are with us next season then I would expect them to play together again . Its the options up front we need addressing

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:23 am

bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:And in the WC the teams have world class strikers to play the ball forward to and are making the runs - without Torres we didn't have that .

That's a very good point. It's a little bit like when you have Peter Crouch up front and you knock long balls to him, he wins the headers. The trick is though, if he isn't playing the following week and you have Jermaine Defoe up there, you don't knock the ball into the same places at the same hieght. If you do, you'll find that he doesn't win the headers.

Football is quite a simple game really when push comes to shove.

Hence when we lack an option up front it's hard to play balls forward

by **stmichael** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:24 am

Fauxy wrote:Yes but the DM's in the world cup finals happen to be world class players that are capable of passing the ball FORWARDS rather than side to side.

Lucas and Masch cant do that.

it also helps when you have really good wide players in that system, aka robben, robinho, villa etc. they are in many ways the key to the 4-2-3-1 syetem being successful. i mean i wasn't his biggest fan but alonso used to excel when he had pennant as an outlet down the right hand side. same for riera two seasons ago. last season we struggled badly because the team was so low on confidence anyway that the likes of aquilani (who can see a pass) had no movement infront of him whatsoever at times. you can see from watching aquilani play that he excels when the team around him is moving well.

personally, a lot depends on whether mascherano goes or not and whether torres stays. if both the above happen i'd like to see us go 4-3-3. the players would be ideal for that system.

reina

johnson carra agger insua/lb

lucas
gerrard aquilini

kuyt torres jovanovic

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:30 am

Benny The Noon wrote:So is a stat asking to see if Torres was playing or not a good indicator then- I got a sneaky feeling a lot if those defeats were without Torres . There is also the question of who would of played instead of either of them ? But of course that's last season and there was a lot more to blame than Lucas and Masher ( who quite surprisingly seemed to have been in our best player if last season category ) . If both players are with us next season then I would expect them to play together again . Its the options up front we need addressing

I know this isnt a Rafa thread but you are one of the people that defends him most.

It was Rafa's squad shaping that left us with only Torres as a credible striking option wasnt it ?

Also sorry to be picky, but lose is the word you appear to be looking for not loose.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:40 am

Ben Patrick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:So is a stat asking to see if Torres was playing or not a good indicator then- I got a sneaky feeling a lot if those defeats were without Torres . There is also the question of who would of played instead of either of them ? But of course that's last season and there was a lot more to blame than Lucas and Masher ( who quite surprisingly seemed to have been in our best player if last season category ) . If both players are with us next season then I would expect them to play together again . Its the options up front we need addressing

I know this isnt a Rafa thread but you are one of the people that defends him most.

It was Rafa's squad shaping that left us with only Torres as a credible striking option wasnt it ?

Also sorry to be picky, but lose is the word you appear to be looking for not loose.

Where as I will also point to the lack of funds available to purchase a decent back up but we are going over old ground I'm sure so guess agree to disagree

by **Ben Patrick** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:44 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:So is a stat asking to see if Torres was playing or not a good indicator then- I got a sneaky feeling a lot if those defeats were without Torres . There is also the question of who would of played instead of either of them ? But of course that's last season and there was a lot more to blame than Lucas and Masher ( who quite surprisingly seemed to have been in our best player if last season category ) . If both players are with us next season then I would expect them to play together again . Its the options up front we need addressing

I know this isnt a Rafa thread but you are one of the people that defends him most.

It was Rafa's squad shaping that left us with only Torres as a credible striking option wasnt it ?

Also sorry to be picky, but lose is the word you appear to be looking for not loose.

Where as I will also point to the lack of funds available to purchase a decent back up but we are going over old ground I'm sure so guess agree to disagree

Deal

But only if you start spelling lose properly

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:48 am

I'll think about it :;):

by **woof woof !** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:07 pm

This threads got some interesting stats and thoughts on formations and who plays where BUT having watched b'ugger all of Fulham in recent years can someone fill me in on our their preferred formation under Hodgson ? . I imagine it'll be odds on that he'll employ those same tactics and ethic with LFC .

by **Fauxy** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:22 pm

He played 4-4-2 with Zonal marking.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:42 pm

It seemed a simple 442 on paper but it seemed to be a more 451 with Zamora up front on his own with either Dempsey or Gera dropping deep to play just in front of Murphy and Etuhu with Duff wide right and either Davies or Dempsey or Gera out left . They mainly seemed to pump the ball up to Zamora and look to get players feeding off him and the knock downs .

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