Liverpool FC Forum

by **devaney** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:54 pm

supersub wrote:
devaney wrote:
Reg wrote:76 views and only 2 posts, yet 39 innocent people lost their lives. Why do fans ignore Heysel? Do we not feel we have a case to answer?

Its the blackest event in the history of the club and people ignore it?

Reg - my own feelings are that a lot of people simply want to remember the good times and make questionable excuses about the bad times !!

Reg - I got castigated and subsequently received a very lengthy and somewhat unjustified ban for suggesting that the mindless drunken d.ickheads singing their moronic Munich songs at the SOS Christmas party were of the same mentality as the supporters responsible for the disasters associated with LFC. I was banned before I could respond to the disgusting and totally unreasonable comments by Redbeergoggles, because he like the moderators had clearly assumed that I was referring to Hillsborough which certainly was not the case. I take exception to being insulted at the best of times but when it is based on totally incorrect assumptions then it becomes unacceptable.

Heysel was a very sad day in the memory of Liverpool football club and and the behaviour of both Juventus and Liverpool fans was disgraceful and if some of the younger fans on this forum have difficulty with my attitude towards a spoiling minority of idiots then I am sorry, but to be frank I am more concerned that 39 people needlessly lost their lives.

Well done for remembering Reg and like yourself my thought are with the families and friends of the Juventus supporters who lost their lives on that terrible night.

Then why did you once again use the plural "disasters"

Point taken Supersub. I will be more careful in future. I appreciate that Hillsborough is a very sensitive issue. I have friends that lost one of their cousins at Hillsborough so I have a substantive understanding of what happened on the 15th April 1989 and who failed co carry out their responsibilities effectively on that thoroughly awful day.

by **devaney** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:17 pm

Owzat wrote:
dawson99 wrote:
Reg wrote:76 views and only 2 posts, yet 39 innocent people lost their lives. Why do fans ignore Heysel? Do we not feel we have a case to answer?

Its the blackest event in the history of the club and people ignore it?

Theres not really much anyone can say mate. A very sad day for football. Just because a thread lacks posts don't mean the thread lacks substance

RIP

A lot of people wouldn't know much about it, a lot of people wouldn't know what to say and a lot of people don't come on a football forum to talk about deaths and disasters.

I think everyone would benefit from reading the wikipedia page on this, two large losses of life in a decade that involved fans of this great club, and sadly the amount of facts associated with either event seem to be lost among popular myth and used to knock our great club and supporters

I've never had a discussion with a Juventus fan about Heysel, but have had an argument with an owls fan who trotted out the gospel according to the s*n which I find very annoying. Heysel was not fit for its use, but it seems the authorities are happy not to publically lump blame where it belongs and prefer to let fans take the rap.

Yes, there is no smoke without fire, but there were incompetents in control of the fire and the area was littered with flammable liquids. I was going to watch the match on TV, never got to see the match as I saw the tragic scenes and didn't believe anyone would play a match after that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

All in all this was a disaster waiting to happen, given the award to host the event, the allocation of tickets, the policing, security etc. Humans only seem to learn from mistakes and tragedies, not even always then. Lots of people do things they shouldn't when driving, don't pay attention to the road the whole time, but until you get caught out you don't learn. "It won't happen to me" is only true up until it does.

Owzat - I agree with everything you said but we cannot ignore the fact that the fans of both clubs behaved in an uncivilised manner and that is the fundamental reason why 39 people lost their lives at Heysel and we cannot simply hide behind all of the well publicised excuses that you highlight.

When United played Roma in Italy in April 2007 I clearly remember the United fans charging at a protective glass screen to get at the Roma supporters. The glass screen was incredibly thick (bit like the United supporters!) and going absolutely nowhere. The idiot United fans bounced off and got dealt with by the scores of riot police that were guarding the partition. Some of the fans even complained about how viciously they were dealt with by the police.

WHEN WILL FANS EVER LEARN?

by **Scottbot** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:44 am

Such a weird night for me watching the Heysel match on the Tv. I was only 10 but remember it quite clearly. I didn't really appreciate what was going on in the stands and me mam had to explain it to me coz I was getting upset that the game might be stopped. I also remember it was the first time we ever wore an Adidas kit (it had been Umbro all season) and I was desperate to have it.

Things don't seem so tragic when your looking through 10 year old eyes but I get my students to study both the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters as part of the health & safety in sport unit we run. It's so incredible to look back and see the state of stadia back then. There is absolute no excusing the actions of many fans in the stadium that night but it's unbelievable to think that the biggest club match in world football could be staged in such a venue.

RIP the 39.

by **Reg** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:58 am

The fact there was no investigation into the disaster is mind boggling:

"UEFA, the organiser of the event, the owners of Heysel Stadium and the Belgian police were never investigated for culpability. There was no official inquiry into the causes of the disaster."

by **devaney** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:19 am

Reg - the easiest way to hide the embarrassment surrounding all parties concerned was to simply blame the fans. This simply was not true and our reputation has suffered as a result. Do not think I am sympathising with the behaviour of the Liverpool fans. That is a very long way from the truth. One of the key reasons why we have taken the brunt of the blame is because at that time there was no extradition treaty with Italy and Belgium so the Juventus fans were never subjected to the same judicial process as the Liverpool fans. England and Liverpool did the right thing in helping the Belgium authorities to find the fans responsible and take the necessary action. The fact that the legal people failed to get a conviction simply demonstrates that the Nick Freeman's of this world exist everywhere! The result of this action however has almost ensured that Liverpool FC have had to shoulder virtually all of the blame. Everton supporters will do whatever they can to ensure that the memory for all the wrong reasons lives on. Most of them never actually consider the 39 fans that died when they hold Liverpool fully responsible for the disaster. Liverpool's case is not helped as 32 of the fans that died were Juventus supporters. Even present day Juventus supporters blame the Liverpool fans because so many of their fans died. To this day I will always remember the Juventus supporter who was running around brandishing a gun!

This is what we have had to put up with for so many years and this is probably just another bitter blue: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6622010884

by **Owzat** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:16 pm

devaney wrote:Owzat - I agree with everything you said but we cannot ignore the fact that the fans of both clubs behaved in an uncivilised manner and that is the fundamental reason why 39 people lost their lives at Heysel and we cannot simply hide behind all of the well publicised excuses that you highlight.

When United played Roma in Italy in April 2007 I clearly remember the United fans charging at a protective glass screen to get at the Roma supporters. The glass screen was incredibly thick (bit like the United supporters!) and going absolutely nowhere. The idiot United fans bounced off and got dealt with by the scores of riot police that were guarding the partition. Some of the fans even complained about how viciously they were dealt with by the police.

WHEN WILL FANS EVER LEARN?

I don't ignore the fact that the root cause was thugs and their behaviour, but it happens and happened a lot, except the state of the stadium meant their thuggery had fatal consequences where most of the time hooligans just ended up bruised and maybe in hospital (as opposed to the morgue)

So I don't ever excuse hooligans or hooliganism, just pointing out that the venue and policing added to the hooligans made for a tragedy.

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