Liverpool FC Forum

by **supersub** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:23 am

Rafa Benitez leaves Liverpool as a legend so could critics please stop rewriting history?

By Brian Reade

Published 23:04 04/06/10

Right to the end the professional pundits failed to understand why so many Liverpudlians stayed loyal to Rafa Benitez.

As 500 fans marched on Anfield after his departure, chanting the Spaniard’s name, heads shook at a footballing sub-species bracketed somewhere between romantic die-hards and mawkish morons.

To the “expert” eye, these deluded fools had been conned by Benitez’s cunning and blinded to his failings by the glory of Istanbul and the criminal incompetence of the American owners.

Liverpool fans they said, once among the most knowledgeable in the world, had clearly lost touch with the modern reality, and were now a sad throwback to the days when sideburned men kicked orange balls.

Well, I’d argue one of the saddest aspects of modern football is too many pundits, including ex-players, have not paid to watch a game since those orange ball days. And they’ve lost touch with the fan.

I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing.

But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again.

It wasn’t just that 2005 Champions League win (which is shamelessly downplayed as a fluke despite beating Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and Carlo Ancelotti’s AC Milan). Or reaching the 2007 Champions League final and the 2008 semi-final. It wasn’t even UEFA elevating Liverpool to Europe’s top-seeded club due to results under Benitez.

It was beating Real Madrid and Inter Milan at the Bernabeu and San Siro (which the Reds had never before done) and Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Magical victories at the very top of world football, which restored long-overdue respect to Liverpudlian hearts.

Ah say the experts, but he didn’t win the league. True. But he got closer than any Liverpool boss in the past 20 years. A season ago he was a whisker away, taking the highest number of points by a runner-up in a 38-game season and the club’s best points haul since 1988.

And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill in the league, the 5th costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy.

Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future?

Ah, the experts say, but that was before he let Xabi Alonso go, which everyone could see was a calamity. These would be the same experts who, for the previous couple of seasons, claimed Liverpool were a two-man team. With Alonso (on whom Benitez turned a £20million profit) never being mentioned as one of those two.

Ah, they say, but Torres apart, he only signed sub-standard dross and ended up with a shockingly-weak squad. Really?

Liverpool are sending 12 players (13 if you count Milan Jovanovic whose Bosman signing is going through) to the World Cup. Or an entire team: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Babel, Gerrard, Mascherano, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Kyrgiakos, Jovanovic.

Eleven Chelsea players flew out to South Africa, the same number as Arsenal, and Manchester United sent eight. Does that look like he’s left Anfield bare of talent?

The truth is Benitez leaves a squad worth many times more than the one he inherited, despite spending less in the past three transfer windows than he’s brought in.

I don’t seek to rewrite history or airbrush Benitez’s failings. I saw last year’s football and it stank. I felt the growing anger among players and fans at his bloody-mindedness and knew something had to give.

Which is why it may be best for all concerned that he walks on. But now he has, let’s do him the honour of getting his legacy right.

Rafa Benitez was many things at Liverpool but unlike every manager since Kenny Dalglish, he was not a failure. Indeed a majority of Liverpudlians will remember him as a legend.

Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:35 am

Boss artical that by read , bang on the money .

by **Sir Roger** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:45 am

For all those that think SOS is out of order or going the wrong way about things, there is a meeting on the 12th of June I believe?
Dont just sit behind your keyboard moaning like an arl tart. Get down there and voice your opinion
If they are worth a w@nk they will listen and discuss their actions and strategy and explain and justify what they are doing and why they are doing it
If theyre not, they wont...

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:04 am

Sir Roger wrote:For all those that think SOS is out of order or going the wrong way about things, there is a meeting on the 12th of June I believe?
Dont just sit behind your keyboard moaning like an arl tart. Get down there and voice your opinion
If they are worth a w@nk they will listen and discuss their actions and strategy and explain and justify what they are doing and why they are doing it
If theyre not, they wont...

Spot on Roger . There's an oppotunity here for people to get there opinions across. If you can't get down there , well e'mail SOS with your opinions and concerns and you will get an answer . Meetings are open to none members , so you are more than welcome to come down and see for yourself how these meetings are run and are open to all kinds of ideas and debate .

http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news....10.html

If you want to send any questions or concerns via e-mail , you can send them to here.

If you are unable to attend but wish to make any comments upon the agenda or raise any other issues then please email secretary@spiritofshankly.com

by **Owzat** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:22 am

How exactly is Rafa a "success" where every manager since Dalglish is apparently a failure? Oh, because he won the Champions League must be the 'how'.

Been meaning to do a comparison, yes that's right whoever the idiot was who thought I was comparing Benitez and Souness, a comparison between the two who bear most comparing.

Rafa Benitez vs Gerard Houllier

Premiership

Rafa Benitez : Runner-up x1, 3rd place x2, 4th place x1 (5th place x1, 7th place x1)
Gerard Houllier : Runner-up x1, 3rd place x1. 4th place x2 (5th place x1, 7th place x1)

FA Cup

Rafa Benitez : Winner 2006
Gerard Houllier : Winner 2001

League Cup

Rafa Benitez : Runner-up 2005
Gerard Houllier : Winner 2001 & 2003

Europe

Rafa Benitez : Champions League Winner 2005, Champions League Runner-up 2007
Gerard Houllier : UEFA Cup Winner 2001

UEFA Super Cup

Rafa Benitez : Winner 2005
Gerard Houllier : Winner 2001

So in essence both had very similar records in the league in terms of finishes, all but identical bar Rafa had two 3rd place finishes to Houllier's one. Major trophies, both won the FA Cup, UEFA Super Cup once and both won a European trophy except Rafa's is more prestigious. Houllier won two League Cups to Rafa's none. The number of teams entering the CL has changed so it is hard to compare success in Europe on a level playing field, of course with more top teams playing in the Champions League it means the UEFA Cup is weaker than it was when Houllier won it.

So both records are similar, I guess Rafa's will always be held in higher regard because he won the big (eared) trophy whereas Houllier didn't. Maybe if Houllier had had SIX shots at it then he might have won it, many will point out it was mostly his signings that won the thing for Rafa anyway! But the bottom line is neither won the league which is what they came here to do, both had successes in cups, and some good finishes in the league, but between them they have added another 12 years to the wait for number 19.

Evans didn't do badly either, finished 3rd twice and 4th twice as well as winning the League Cup and reaching an FA Cup final. Had teams finishing in the top four all got into the Champions League then, perhaps he too could be fairly compared with his successors. He didn't finish second, although he did finish level on points with second in one season, and he didn't get as long in charge.

Souness on the other hand is one manager I wouldn't bother comparing with his successors, except to expose how bad he was. He started the decline, or arguably Kenny did by leaving and the board by appointing Souness. We had title winning quality players before Souness made sure they were cleared out and replaced by rubbish. Evans did well to turn things around, gave Houllier a better starting point than Evans had been given

by **Sir Roger** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:40 am

I liked Houllier
He just lost le plot

by **kazza** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:35 pm

I always support the manager but I knew we had to get rid of Houllier when we did. I get none of those feelings with Rafa and believe the club made a mistake in getting rid of him. For the first time ever, I don't feel optimistic about next season. Hope I am wrong!

by **dundreamin** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:56 pm

I WANT HOULLIER BACK!

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:19 pm

Lots on here have commented about Rafa loosing the dressing room.

Well he never lost Javier , :censored:

get in there Javier lad ,made up . Come on lads its your turn now

Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano says Rafa Benitez would be the ideal man to succeed Jose Mourinho at Inter Milan.

Reports suggest Inter president Massimo Moratti is set to meet Benitez in Sardinia and a deal could be sealed in the next 48 hours.

It will be daunting for someone to step into Mourinho's shoes after the former Chelsea manager steered the Nerazzurri to the Champions League crown before leaving to Real Madrid, but Mascherano believes his former boss has the perfect credentials.

"Only Benitez could take the place of a coach like Mourinho," said the Argentina international. "He is a great coach. He has charisma, personality, a winning mentality.

"Moreover, he will find himself brilliantly in Italy because of the tactical game. Rafa studies everything on the table and directs the team from the bench like a orchestra conductor.

"Inter have made a good choice. After Mourinho, he is the only man capable of continuing Inter's winning run."

Mascherano has spent the past three years at Anfield but contract negotiations have currently been put on hold.

The 25-year-old was heavily linked with a move to Barcelona last summer and admits he could soon leave Liverpool.

"Would I follow Benitez? I don't know," he said with a shrug. "At the moment I really know little about my future.

"But of course with Benitez at Liverpool I experienced three incredible years. His football is my football."

by **ConnO'var** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:32 pm

I thought it better to refrain from posting in the immediate aftermath of the manager's removal due to the emotions that would run and still are running high.

The change, IMO, was a necessary evil. Rafa did his best but unfortunately, for me at least, he wasn't quite good enough in the end.
Why was his removal a necessary evil? Because, in my eyes and according to people at the club whom I know and trust (and no, I'm not welsh wizard..

).... the reports in the press regarding losing the dressing room, are not entirely without basis. Believe what you will, but once that happens, the manager is done regardless of what anyone thinks.

The manner and timing of his removal however, was deplorable to say the least.... he deserved better than that.

We need to move on. Keeping our best players should be 1st and foremost on the "to do" list..... and I honestly we'll be hardpressed to keep Gerrard and Torres..... if that happens, we'll be up sh!t creek. May have to build from the ground I'm afraid..... and that's not due to Rafa...... T & T have to sell up if we're to survive as a club....... Else, we may end up like Leeds.

At a time like this, I think the only man who can keep the club and it's values alive is Kenny. If he takes over the reigns, Gerrard and Torres will be here next season.... I'm absolutely convinced of it.

YNWA

by **dawson99** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:34 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Lots on here have commented about Rafa loosing the dressing room.

Well he never lost Javier , get in there Javier lad ,made up . Come on lads its your turn now

Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano says Rafa Benitez would be the ideal man to succeed Jose Mourinho at Inter Milan.

Reports suggest Inter president Massimo Moratti is set to meet Benitez in Sardinia and a deal could be sealed in the next 48 hours.

It will be daunting for someone to step into Mourinho's shoes after the former Chelsea manager steered the Nerazzurri to the Champions League crown before leaving to Real Madrid, but Mascherano believes his former boss has the perfect credentials.

"Only Benitez could take the place of a coach like Mourinho," said the Argentina international. "He is a great coach. He has charisma, personality, a winning mentality.

"Moreover, he will find himself brilliantly in Italy because of the tactical game. Rafa studies everything on the table and directs the team from the bench like a orchestra conductor.

"Inter have made a good choice. After Mourinho, he is the only man capable of continuing Inter's winning run."

Mascherano has spent the past three years at Anfield but contract negotiations have currently been put on hold.

The 25-year-old was heavily linked with a move to Barcelona last summer and admits he could soon leave Liverpool.

"Would I follow Benitez? I don't know," he said with a shrug. "At the moment I really know little about my future.

"But of course with Benitez at Liverpool I experienced three incredible years. His football is my football."

LOL

Obviously Masher is leaving us and wants to go to Inter

by **zarababe** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:34 pm

Rafa Benitez.. he made the people happy

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:42 pm

Did Purslow tell you that Daws :;):

Got a habit Christie has of telling people everything , News getting leaked out snidy about us before its even on the Offal, Steven, Torres , Javier and Pepe all going to him coplaining that if Rafa stayed they were off, He said this,

Just puts to bed some of a bit of the nonsence , first Pepe came out and said he was gutted and was really close to Rafa, Now Javier,
Wonder who will be next.

by **dawson99** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:43 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Did Purslow tell you that Daws Got a habit Christie has of telling people everything , News getting leaked out snidy about us before its even on the Offal, Steven, Torres , Javier and Pepe all going to him coplaining that if Rafa stayed they were off, He said this,

Just puts to bed some of a bit of the nonsence , first Pepe came out and said he was gutted and was really close to Rafa, Now Javier,
Wonder who will be next.

Maqsher has wanted to leave for months, we ALL know this, hes blamed his missus, everything for wantign to go.

As for the others i dunno, but Masher ani't happy here, and hasnt been all season

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:04 pm

killerp wrote:Today is a great day, I was ready to quit Liverpool if Rafa stayed on. I have hope for the future now!

Well that's just 1 more reason why we should have kept him, then.

I hope all the f*ck-wits and imbeciles are happy now. You've got what you silly f*ckers wanted:

Let's see how long it takes for you dickheads to regret it.

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