Liverpool FC Forum

by **redsince2001** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:24 pm

watching us play today was painful ..... we were pathetic in the 1st half .... in the second we improved ..but only slightly .... babel was a joke . vorinin needs to be shipped out /locked up ...no way he is going to be of a team that will win the league. Mark my words.

by **fivecups** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 pm

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:How many of you think it would have made a difference if Alonso were playing?

I don't.

Gerrard and Torres were both sh*te.

Well even those who have doubted that Alonso is quite as good as some have made out would I assume concede he is a mile better than Lucas, so therefore if he'd played then our chances of winning the match would have increased I should think.

I don't think that is debateable really, it's just a question of how much. Equally, if both Gerrard and Torres were both sub-par, I'm absolutely certain that some people will claim Aonso's absense had a major effect on that. Given that Alonso was the player who generally fed it into Gerrard from central areas, if Lucas didn't do that as well as the Spaniard then they may well have a point.

Ultimately though, it won't be until Aquilani becomes available that you'll know for sure how much we are going to miss Alonso. As I say, we already knew Xabi was a much better player than Lucas, and if today confirmed it then it's no surprise really if we're honest.

I'm one of the ones that think Alonso was very, very good and I think we missed him today. I also think, as you said, that Gerrard and Torres's performance were affected by him not playing. By the end of the match Stevie was dropping far deeper than he usually had to last season to help build attacks. Masch and Lucas were passing it to each other but neither wanted to control our play. With Stevie playing deeper Torres was heavily marked by their central defenders. With less fast, intuitive passing the space that we can create was simply not there.

Now before someone else tells me I'm going to stop banging on about Alonso. He's gone and we have a replacement - we've just got to hope that he settles soon after he gets over his injury.

by **bunglemark2** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 pm

"We have to improve in the middle and keep the ball more and pass it better. The understanding has to be better. "
Words of wisdom from Rafa.....ehhh, we know that, buddy, so what are you gonna do about it ?

by **burjennio** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:31 pm

bigmick wrote:
burjennio wrote:Good to see all the old doom n gloomers out in force to heap scorn on the usual suspects, Lucas in particular, who anyone but the most self-opinionated tw*t could see was one of the better players in a red shirt today, Don't see any of you mentioning that Fernando Torres had an absolute shocker but some players are always exempt from criticism in the eyes of some. We're all in agreement that Babel was dire but I see its took 1 f*cking game for some kn*bhead to mention how much we missed Xabi Alonso - some of you really hammer home the old addage that misery loves company - you must all lead truely miserable lives becasue newsflash - ITS ONE F*CKING GAME against a very good side that will be a tough match for everyone this season, especially at White Hart Lane. But as expected to some this means that LFC, Benitez, Lucas etc are all incompetent and [INSERT IDIOTS NAME HERE] was right the whole time

Might as well name names fella, who you on about

I have no interest in starting a flame war Mick as the constant b*tching on here is the main reason I rarely post any more but in the last 2 pages I read scathing comments from 2 members I ain't seen on here since probably the last time Liverpool lost a game. They need to get one of the following two things:

a) Lives

b) A realistic view on how real football works compared to their skewered opinions based on a sexless career on Football Manager 09

by **burjennio** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:33 pm

By the end of the match Stevie was dropping far deeper than he usually had to last season to help build attacks

He was moved into that position by the manager beacuse he had changed to a 442 formation

by **The Real Deal** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:40 pm

Emerald Red wrote:How many of you think it would have made a difference if Alonso were playing?

I don't.

Gerrard and Torres were both sh*te.

Alonso was far too defensive.

Its ok the pretty passes etc. side to side. Im not bothered he has gone. he aint a Stevie G.

Aquilaini is supposed to be more attacking.

I would have prefered us to keep Sissoko over ALonso and we would have had 2 league titles by now.

Rafa with his Alonso and Mascherno is too defensive.

More attack please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **fivecups** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:49 pm

burjennio wrote:
By the end of the match Stevie was dropping far deeper than he usually had to last season to help build attacks

He was moved into that position by the manager beacuse he had changed to a 442 formation

I'm talking about even before Voronin came on.

by **redhayesy** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:52 pm

bigmick wrote:
burjennio wrote:Good to see all the old doom n gloomers out in force to heap scorn on the usual suspects, Lucas in particular, who anyone but the most self-opinionated tw*t could see was one of the better players in a red shirt today, Don't see any of you mentioning that Fernando Torres had an absolute shocker but some players are always exempt from criticism in the eyes of some. We're all in agreement that Babel was dire but I see its took 1 f*cking game for some kn*bhead to mention how much we missed Xabi Alonso - some of you really hammer home the old addage that misery loves company - you must all lead truely miserable lives becasue newsflash - ITS ONE F*CKING GAME against a very good side that will be a tough match for everyone this season, especially at White Hart Lane. But as expected to some this means that LFC, Benitez, Lucas etc are all incompetent and [INSERT IDIOTS NAME HERE] was right the whole time

Might as well name names fella, who you on about

it's all about opinions mate? so mine is Lucas proved once an forall he is out of his depth at LFC. he was un-productive when he got the ball,didn't pass with any convition,creativity etc.

so if you are naming me as one of the self opinionated tw@ts -so be it. i'm entitled to my opinion end of. so for the record please give me one example were you thought Lucas played well today. or even contributed in anything positive in our alround perforfance.

he treates the ball like a hot potatoe,he sh1tes out of challenges,then when he makes a half hearted attempt to win the ball,he makes a foul through lack of pace etc. in the most demanding role of the side in midfield he lacks the most important quality -attitude, to compansate for his lack of ability.

i'm not a doom & gloomer-far from it,however i'm fecking frustrated with certain players who are given a golden opportunity to play in the first team time an time again only to show feck all commitment an determination to justify their selection, why would they lack confidence? to be given a chance first game of the season for whatever reason should be an ego boost of the highest order! they should run till they drop,challenge every ball an give every effort in whatever their posistion demands. neither Lucas or babel showed any of these for me,so imo deserve critisism.

if in the next game they are picked,cause it will happen -they prove me wrong an give the performance of their lives -i will be the first one to acknowledge it believe me,untill then as in so many games they have shown,they will show lack of attitude etc an deserve critisism.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:55 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Chelsea won the league twice with three centre backs. End of.

Unfortunately it's neither "end of" nor true. Chelsea actually had 4 and a half centre halves if you include Essien who can play there quite well.

John Terry, Ricardo Carvallho, William Gallas and Robert Huth were the other four. You do need four credible centre backs.

That, is end of.

by **Tim LFC** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:56 pm

We just need time to get together. I think Voronin out! Babel should be tested in attack. We need to bring in some more players though. I'll remain optimistic and see how we do against Stoke and if we win them no need to worry. If we draw or even hell lose then i'll start questioning. But i'll remain optimistic and see if we sign some players as well.

by **TheLad** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:57 pm

only me wrote:Rafa sees football as rocket science it is pretty simple game for god sake.

by **TheLad** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:59 pm

The_Rock wrote:
kopite_1232002 wrote:ILL SUM THE GAME UP

YOU CANT PLAY LUCAS AND MASHA IN THE MIDDLE AND EXPECT TO PLAY ATTRACTIVE ATTACKIN FOOTBALL.

SIMPLES

ASOON AS GERRARD DROPPED BACK AND STARTED SPREADIN THE PLAY ALONSO STYLE PASSES WE LOOKED A DIFFRENT TEAM...

YOSSI FOR MAN OF THE MATCH... THATS BAD.

LOOK AT THE BENCH DONT KID YOUR SELF WE AINT GONNA WIN SWEET F.A. STARTING 11 OK AFTER THAT WERE KAK

18.08 P.M EXPECT RAFA RANTING ABOUT TRANCFERS

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS ITS HOW I FEEL !!

Big mick is nostradamus.... He mentioned that we could be fecked if we don't get a quality 4th CB.... and in our 1st game carra and skertel injure themselves...

Then he also said something about lucas not doing well in the 1st game and gerrard coming back to CM... well i hope he is right. Lucas and Mascherano CM combo has got to be the most uncreative combination in the history of this league.

Gosh.....we are supposed to challenge for the league and we have central midfielders who can't pass more than 5 yeards...and a left winger who can't cross with his left leg....

As for benayoun...he has to play support striker for now on.

Yossi has to play behind Torres, that's where he is the most effective (like against Real)

by **TheLad** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:02 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Effes wrote:I defo blame Rafa for playing Babel ahead of Benayoun.

Most people on here were saying such before kick off.

Maybe Yossi played 90 mins for Israel midweek and was hlaf way around the world No?

Yossi came off at the 65th minutes, Babel came off later, so that shouldn't be a reason, it's hard to understandt Rafa sometimes...

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:03 pm

bigmick wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Chelsea won the league twice with three centre backs. End of.

Unfortunately it's neither "end of" nor true. Chelsea actually had 4 and a half centre halves if you include Essien who can play there quite well.

John Terry, Ricardo Carvallho, William Gallas and Robert Huth were the other four. You do need four credible centre backs.

That, is end of.

Mick, stop trying to make a debate out of nothing. Essien is NOT a centre back.

by **bigmick** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:04 pm

Tim LFC wrote:We just need time to get together. I think Voronin out! Babel should be tested in attack. We need to bring in some more players though. I'll remain optimistic and see how we do against Stoke and if we win them no need to worry. If we draw or even hell lose then i'll start questioning. But i'll remain optimistic and see if we sign some players as well.

I knid of agree Tim but there is a slight contradiction there. "We need time together" makes sense to me, but you then followm it with shipping players out, shipping players in and bringing through a raft of youngsters.

I'm fairly certain that the "we miss Alonso" bandwagon will really start to roll unless we find form soon, and rightly so if we continue to play Lucas in central midfield. One thing though which hasn't been debated is the wisdom of trying to bring players in once the season has already started. We all patted ourselves on the back for squeezing a couple of extra million out of Madrid, but I said at the time the deal been done three weeks earlier would have made a huge difference.

To compound that, we bought a midfielder who although being apparently quite good isn't going to play for a few weeks. He'll have to get fit/used to the Premiership and acclimatise all at the same time, which won't be easy.

Time would be lovely, but unfortunately it's the one thing we haven't got. Some have suggested we looked underdone against Spurs, and once again getting up to speed once the season has already started seems a strange way of going about things if it is the case. After last seasons ping out of the blocks which left the Mancs in particular toiling in our wake, they were always going to try and avoid that scenario again. They came back from a sizeable deficit, I wouldn't like to see us do the same.

No mate, time is a precious commodity at the moment.

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