Liverpool FC Forum

by **syma76** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:23 pm

roberto green wrote:
syma76 wrote:i have a feeling we will win the league

That's the spirit my friend.....

sorry i can't share your optimism

coz i believed when something wrong happened, comes something great

in LFC we trust :buttrock

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:23 pm

john craig wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
john craig wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
metalhead wrote:Fernando Torres is a world class center back!!! FFS Rafa why did you take him off

No, no, mate--don't you see? We had them absolutely pinned back for every single second of the 87 minutes Torres was on the pitch. They never even had a sniff (disregard that save Reina had to make with his face, or the header just outside his area or those freekicks...). We pull Nando off and, wham, they're all over us like sailors in a brothel. FECKIN' RAFA!

Don't be naive for Christ sake.

Of course that substitution affected the game. Torres' mere presence on the pitch occupies at least 2 defenders and crucially they fear him. You bring him off and it automatically gives them a lift and the defenders the confidence to take risks.

It was a stupid decision against United which invited pressure but we got away with it. It was a stupid decision against Fulham... clearly. And guess what, it was a stupid decision again tonight.

Obviously we can blame Voronin's miss, the home game v Lyon or the performance at Fiorentina, but don't pretend the manager couldn't have made the closing minutes of the game a bit easier for us by leaving Torres on. He managed 86 minutes... what's the likelihood that the final 4 minutes will make any difference to his physical condition for the next game. Nonsense.

I'm sorry, but it was a stupid substitution that contributed to the outcome.

Wrong - Torres fitness is on a knife egde and he only stayed on long enough to get a goal - we got the goal and off he comes for another striker - Torres being on the pitch wouldnt of stopped that goal going in - Thier striker would of still scored after our defender messed up .

You just don't understand the game at all mate, like plenty of others spouting the usual predictable rubbish on here. Par for the course in this place.

Every refereeing decision, every passage of play, every managerial decision, every pass, every shot etc etc has an influence on what happens after it in a game... directly or (in the case of Torres coming off)... indirectly.

Plenty of things affected the outcome tonight. That substitution was one of them.

I understand the game plenty thanks and i can see our goal was down to a defensive error and nothing more - the greek clears it out and its sorted - he didnt deal with it properly against the man he was marking and they scored - nothing to do with the sub .

by **europian-kings** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:23 pm

We are walking through a storm, but we must keep our heads up high!

Distraught by the late equaliser, although they didnt look like getting one i always had a gut feeling at the back of my mind that something like that would happen.

Now we must concentrate on Birmingham.

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:24 pm

john craig wrote:Every refereeing decision, every passage of play, every managerial decision, every pass, every shot etc etc has an influence on what happens after it in a game... directly or (in the case of Torres coming off)... indirectly.

Plenty of things affected the outcome tonight. That substitution was one of them.

Actually, that's fair enough John. So basically what you're saying is that it would be foolish to focus undue attention on the substitution as THE factor that cost us the win, as some have done. It was one of numerous details that led to the draw and not something particularly worthy of singling out.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:24 pm

Dazzer wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
lakes10 wrote:looking at the other forums they all seems to put the blame at Rafa, dont look like the press will.

Which Forums Lakes , because i for one would like to know,

Ill tell you what if you an that Dazzer went an stood on the kop an come out with all the sh.ite you do about the boss on here , five minutes id give yehs

Why what they do to me nanny beat me up ?

Yes .

Your only here to wind people up so disappear

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:25 pm

Dazzer wrote:
I'm well aware of who the usual clueless w"nkers are.

This wasn't aimed at me and any one else who wants to talk about the mistakes made ?

Right ok and lad stop sh.it stiring you starting to become quite good at it.Rafa as always set the game up perfect I felt but made a key mistake during the game.Sums him up for me.

What mistakes?

There was one mistake made, and it didn't come from Benitez. It came from Kyrcackos at the back.

And I did think about the possiblity of if's and buts. If Torres remained, would they have pushed on for the goal? People love to take things out of context. Who was it that scored our goal again? Was it Torres? Rafa never changed the system. He subbed like-for-like. We still had two strikers on the pitch - and very quick ones - capable of scoring. So why was the Torres sub to blame for the goal? Someone, please, give us all a credible view. One that actually sticks.

by **big al** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:26 pm

bigmick well said. I have only attacked Rafa for his faith in bad players. I understand your opinion thanks for understanding mine

by **Greavesie** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:26 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
I'm well aware of who the usual clueless w"nkers are.

This wasn't aimed at me and any one else who wants to talk about the mistakes made ?

Right ok and lad stop sh.it stiring you starting to become quite good at it.Rafa as always set the game up perfect I felt but made a key mistake during the game.Sums him up for me.

What mistakes?

There was one mistake made, and it didn't come from Benitez. It came from Kyrcackos at the back.

And I did think about the possiblity of if's and buts. If Torres remained, would they have pushed on for the goal? People love to take things out of context. Who was it that scored our goal again? Was it Torres? Rafa never changed the system. He subbed like-for-like. We still had two strikers on the pitch - and very quick ones - capable of scoring. So why was the Torres sub to blame for the goal? Someone, please, give us all a credible view. One that actually sticks.

but remember ER it was Rafa who signed him etc etc zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by **Madmax** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:27 pm

Good performance but all i have to say is Vorronin is fecking shyte! What a fecking waste of player!!! Wonder why aquilani didn't get some mins?

by **JC_81** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:27 pm

Greavesie wrote:John I appreciate that but surely it was the individual error of the Greek that cost the game, the 11 men on the pitch should have saw the game out, for me it didnt matter whether or nots Torres was on the pitch. They needed a draw to qualify and were 1:0 down with 5 minnutes to go. Taking Torres hardly gave them 'permission' to attack us

The Greek didn't cost us the game mate, nor did bringing Torres off. Nor did Voronin missing a sitter.

They all contributed to it though. All I'm saying is that the Torres substitution was something that inflenced the game, and the influence was mainly psychological in that the rest of our players see their best player being brought off and their players also see our best player coming off. Anyone who has played the game knows the psychological effects these things have on players at crucial times in crucial games. Fine details.

by **JC_81** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:29 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
john craig wrote:Every refereeing decision, every passage of play, every managerial decision, every pass, every shot etc etc has an influence on what happens after it in a game... directly or (in the case of Torres coming off)... indirectly.

Plenty of things affected the outcome tonight. That substitution was one of them.

Actually, that's fair enough John. So basically what you're saying is that it would be foolish to focus undue attention on the substitution as THE factor that cost us the win, as some have done. It was one of numerous details that led to the draw and not something particularly worthy of singling out.

Yep. That's fair enough mate. Except that in my opinion it WAS significant and WAS worth mentioning.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:29 pm

The greek cost us the game by making the mistake - its clear as day to see , he made a mistake and mistakes cost you games .

As for seeing the best player goes off effects the players ? didnt seem to bother them against the mancs when ngog came on ? the defense held firm - no mistakes and we got a second goal .

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:29 pm

GreeksterPAO wrote:ya ok relax there buddy. did lyon crucify their defensemen for allowing babel to take a shot. you're a moron. besides the unlucky goal, kyrgiakos was the class of the defenders again 2day just like he was last game. carragher wouldnt do any better. these are 2 elite teams, players are good and ppl do score goals. 1 -1 relax and be thankful u have such a beast in the back.

Look, mate, fair dos for defending the big fella and all that but I'm afraid he's just not up to this standard of football. It's fair to say we've seen enough of him now to say that he's dodgy at best. Class of the defenders? Not for me, no.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:30 pm

bigmick wrote:I disagree with everyone just about. I thought the Torres substitution was irrelevent, they would have pushed on anyway, why wouldn't they? That said, I don't think those who are saying it played a part are simply doing so in order to have a go at the manager. You know why I think they are saying taking Torres off had an impact? I think they're saying it because they believe it to be the case.

Not everyone has an agenda all the time, sometimes people just post up what they think.

100% Mick.

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:30 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
bigmick wrote:I disagree with everyone just about. I thought the Torres substitution was irrelevent, they would have pushed on anyway, why wouldn't they? That said, I don't think those who are saying it played a part are simply doing so in order to have a go at the manager. You know why I think they are saying taking Torres off had an impact? I think they're saying it because they believe it to be the case.

Not everyone has an agenda all the time, sometimes people just post up what they think.

100% Mick.

Im with you as well .

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